5Wx30 Synthetic with highest amount of moly

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/h/39/10w30.htm 600-800 ppm moly, per my conversation with them.
Idemitsu says its an SM oil, so sounds like it would work in a typical non-rotary piston engine too, with low enough phosphorus to spare the catalysts, even this is a "racing oil". All the racing oils I've ever seen put in large amounts of phosphorus (ZDDP), but the moly here must be taking over for it. .... Interesting oil. MSDS says 65% PAO, 15% mineral oil, not bad. Marketing statement says it has polyesters (POE I assume, maybe polymer ester forms(??)), leaving about 5%-10% POE after the MSDS PAO/mineral amounts stated. Add in all the moly they confessed to (800 ppm) d00df00d, and it makes it interesting.

 

[cdlamb]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies

go to PQIA and have a look.
A lot of PQIA is obsolete since the formulas changed with SN+ and dexos1 Gen2.

Originally Posted by danez_yoda
shaeffers9000
I think their formula is still the old high-moly, high calcium, and high sodium formula, bad for direct injection and/or turbos, not SN+ dexos1 Gen2.


So are all 3 of these additives, "high-moly, high calcium, and high sodium formula", bad for direct injection and/or turbos, like the Ford 3.5 Ecoboost?
is a dexos1 rated oil, supposed to be better for these engines?
Trying to stick with an oil formulation that is best for the valve coking issue that some talk about.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by Artem
Originally Posted by d00df00d
I mean, it's not going to be "unsafe." Certainly not worse than running a diesel oil in a gasoline engine, which so many people apparently love doing.

I did ask them if they thought it'd be as good as I suspected. They seemed to agree with my hypothesis, but wouldn't say for sure either way because they haven't tested it.




Yea but most diesel oil is also SN rated, so that means it's technically perfectly fine to use and the extra diesel soot fighting additives will probably keep a non diesel engine chrome polished inside. Haha.

Idemitsu claims this oil "exceeds" API SM, for what that's worth.


Originally Posted by Artem
Since Rotary engines use regular engine oil, I suspect a Rotary engine oil in most likely backward compatible to a regular engine. All those extra wear fighting additives should do wonders for a piston engine. Whether or not there's any actual decreased wear vs your average Lube is questionable... but one can certainly hope for the best.

Exactly. No certainties here, and definitely no slam-dunk reason to use this over anything else. Just a boatload of moly and an apparently interesting formulation. :]

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by cdlamb
So are all 3 of these additives, "high-moly, high calcium, and high sodium formula", bad for direct injection and/or turbos, like the Ford 3.5 Ecoboost?
I'd avoid anything with sodium and/or high calcium (over 1800 ppm Ca). LSPI issues. Moly is not a problem for LSPI. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4306777/Re:_Infineum_on_Quenching_LSPI
Originally Posted by cdlamb
is a dexos1 rated oil, supposed to be better for these engines?
Yes, for LSPI, and because dexos1 is actually a tough spec, tougher than Ford WSS- specs. A higher standard.
Originally Posted by cdlamb
Trying to stick with an oil formulation that is best for the valve coking issue that some talk about.
I'm not sure if any helps with coking the valves, execpt that Valvoline Modern Engine might get credit for that. I'm skeptical as Valvoline hasn't provided any evidence of value in the Valvoline Modern Engine line over their own othe full syn products. I guess its the lower ash in the Modern Engine that might help. See if you agree with Valvolines pitch for Modern Engine: https://team.valvoline.com/promo/modern-engine

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
I'd avoid anything with sodium and/or high calcium (over 1800 ppm Ca). LSPI issues. Moly is not a problem for LSPI.

I wonder if Red Line's high ZDDP and moly would more than make up for the high calcium.

 

[OilUzer]

as I may have hinted in my original posts, DI/GDI LSPI was not a concern. Therefore d1g2 or d2 compliant was not a requirement.

You guys are great and thanks for all the info!

 

[Virtus_Probi]

I tried to post something here yesterday and the site was barfing up hairballs...
By a 2013 VOA on the PQIA website, Schaeffer 9000 synthetic 5W30 was just above 300ppm of moly.
By a UOA from last year, Amsoil 5W30 SS is just over 200ppm (this was the new formulation that passes the d1G2 LSPI test).
I have no idea how these relate to "effective" moly dosing.

I'm going to take a break from this site as it has been very balky for me lately, will check back in a few months to see if things are better. Too bad for me because it's a fun place to post.

 

[Schaefferbest]

Schaeffer Oil is the way to go!! They have the most Moly out of everyone except maybe Redline. But Schaeffer has a proprietary moly additive that is amazing!

After choosing the finest base stock they start adding two friction modifiers; Micron Moly and Penetro. Micron moly is oxidized molybdenum that is magnetically attracted to ferrous metals. It is five times stronger than steel and has a melting point that is twice as high as steel. Even under the heaviest loads Micron Moly will not pound out. And Schaeffer has the highest content of molybdenum among all major brands. Along with Moly Schaeffer adds a proprietary product that is exclusive to Schaeffer oil called Penetro. Penetro reduces friction by adding what is like microscopic ball bearings in the oil. This is especially good since most engine parts contain metals that are non-ferrous along with ferrous metals. Non-ferrous metals do not attract magnetically so they need lubrication to protect the surface other than metal alloys, such as molybdenum. Penetro and Micron Moly stay on the parts even during cold starts to offer the best protection at all times.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Schaefferbest
Schaeffer Oil is the way to go!! They have the most Moly out of everyone except maybe Redline. But Schaeffer has a proprietary moly additive that is amazing!
Schaeffer is a very good choice, although not for modern TGDI engines (high Na and Ca). Schaeffer's use of Antimony (EP) is likely unique, and might be the "Penetro" stuff mentioned, not sure. ........ You said "maybe Redline"... Redline has twice the moly as Schaeffer, so no 'maybe' there. Others too: Idemitsu Zepro, Toyota Genuine Motor Oil and Mazda house-brand oil has twice what Schaeffer has (0w20 only). Pennzoil Ultra SRT 0w40 has almost the same amount of moly as Schaeffer (275 ppm).

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Schaefferbest
Schaeffer Oil is the way to go!! They have the most Moly out of everyone except maybe Redline. But Schaeffer has a proprietary moly additive that is amazing!
Schaeffer is a very good choice, although not for modern TGDI engines (high Na and Ca). Schaeffer's use of Antimony (EP) is likely unique, and might be the "Penetro" stuff mentioned, not sure. ........ You said "maybe Redline"... Redline has twice the moly as Schaeffer, so no 'maybe' there. Others too: Idemitsu Zepro, Toyota Genuine Motor Oil and Mazda house-brand oil has twice what Schaeffer has (0w20 only). Pennzoil Ultra SRT 0w40 has almost the same amount of moly as Schaeffer (275 ppm).



^^°°^^

Very good post here by ofm.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted by Schaefferbest
Schaeffer Oil is the way to go!! They have the most Moly out of everyone except maybe Redline. But Schaeffer has a proprietary moly additive that is amazing!

After choosing the finest base stock they start adding two friction modifiers; Micron Moly and Penetro. Micron moly is oxidized molybdenum that is magnetically attracted to ferrous metals. It is five times stronger than steel and has a melting point that is twice as high as steel. Even under the heaviest loads Micron Moly will not pound out. .................

It's stronger in hardness, compressive strength or ??
Not sure if you are referring to 'pounding' at connecting rod bearings ?

 

[Matagonka]

Mazda OEM oil has 500 Molly I believe.

 

[1JZ_E46]

For a LSPI friendly formula, Redline Euro 5w30 has about 115ppm of moly and around 1800ppm of Ca. ZDDP around 800. It's a C3 (mid-SAPS) oil.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Matagonka
Mazda OEM oil has 500 Molly I believe.



I think it's over 800ppm.

 

[rrounds]

I think that M1 0/30 racing oil had the most molly that I've seen, over 1600.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4754273/1

You could mix it 50/50 with the regular M1 0/30 and have a very stout oil.

ROD

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by rrounds
I think that M1 0/30 racing oil had the most molly that I've seen, over 1600.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4754273/1

You could mix it 50/50 with the regular M1 0/30 and have a very stout oil.

ROD


What does mixing accomplish? Just curious can you use racing oil in street cars? Besides being expensive and overkill, is there any other drawbacks?

 

[OilUzer]

Another question:

Why do some factory oils (Toyota, Mazda, issuzu?, etc.) and racing oils or more expensive oils have more moly?
Is moly just good during break-in period or good for old cars or is it good for the life of the car?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Another question:Why do some factory oils (Toyota, Mazda, issuzu?, etc.) and racing oils or more expensive oils have more moly? Is moly just good during break-in period or good for old cars or is it good for the life of the car?
Many expensive oils don't have moly at all or low levels anyway. Euro-spec oils come to mind. Of course a lot of expensive oils do have high moly too. There are OFMs (organic friction modifiers too, so moly isn't the only way to lower friction ( Oleic acid, Dioleyl phosphite, Glycerol dioleate, polymer esters, typical ). Also some boron compounds, and of course moly's cousin, tungsten, works. Moly ain't the only game in town.

Racing oils like moly's protective and friction benefits. ..... It's good for all age of vehicles. Honda-Acura engineers have made statements via TSBs to dealership technicians about how moly during break-in can prevent hot spots from high friction in a newer engine, telling them to keep the high-moly factory fill oil in during break-in. For engines past their first oil change, high moly can continue to provide protective and lower friction benefits.

http://elit-oil.io.ua/files/0001/21/00012167.pdf shows how increasing moly levels lowers the temperature of activation of the friction reducing effects. This is important during warm-up and start-stop cycles, but also for those areas of the engine that never get to the high temperatures at the rings, like the timing chain and cam lobes.

 

[rrounds]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by rrounds
I think that M1 0/30 racing oil had the most molly that I've seen, over 1600.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4754273/1

You could mix it 50/50 with the regular M1 0/30 and have a very stout oil.

ROD


What does mixing accomplish? Just curious can you use racing oil in street cars? Besides being expensive and overkill, is there any other drawbacks?


Cost is the main drawback with racing oil, and with a mix you still get an elevated level of molly plus ZDDP, Calcium, Boron and Silicon(anti-foaming agent).

ROD

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by rrounds
Cost is the main drawback with racing oil, and with a mix you still get an elevated level of molly plus ZDDP, Calcium, Boron and Silicon(anti-foaming agent). ROD
Assuming the chemicals in M1 racing 0w30 don't clash with M1 AFE 0w30, which is a huge assumption, the amount of ZDDP in M1 racing 0w30 at your 50/50 mix level would result in 1400 ppm phosphorus, too much if you have a catalyst you want to keep. Mixing may not result in something that you actually want in the sump.