Hey guys, was discussing this with a couple friends recently & wanted to get you guys thoughts. My climate range is between 15*F in winter (at it's coldest) to 100*F in summer. My friends run 10w30 synthetic oil (even though their engines spec 5w20 & 5w30). I told them I plan on running 5w30 in my new truck (spec'd for 5w20) because I'm not worried about the 0.5% CAFE numbers from a 5w20 vs a 5w30 oil, I'd rather have a little bit more protection (in my mind I guess). So they wanted to make the point that it rarely gets below 20*F in winter where we live (anything below 20* is considered VERY cold here), so why not just run a synthetic 10w30 that has a naturally low NOACK & doesn't need all the VI improvers to prop it up. Their argument is the temperature never gets cold enough to justify needing a 5w oil of any type, & that a 10w oil will protect much better in our summer heat when towing or just for normal operation. I checked out a couple NOACK numbers & turns out they're right, the average NOACK of a 10w30 oil is like 4 or 5, where as the 5w30 is like 9 to 11. So would a 10w oil make more sense to run vs a 5w where we live year round ? Also it seems that all the 10w oils are MUCH cheaper vs a 5w oil of the same brand for whatever reason.
5w30 vs 10w30
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I switched to 10w-30 for the shear stability and low noack. I don't understand running a 0w myself. I guess for gas mileage?
I would base your decision on cold cranking performance. If you have trouble starting in cold I'd go to the 5w. I suspect you'll be just fine with 10w
I would base your decision on cold cranking performance. If you have trouble starting in cold I'd go to the 5w. I suspect you'll be just fine with 10w
There are a lot of 10w30 haters on this forum. I agree that u can run 10w30 all year and the noack numbers are higher, but if your vehicle is spec for 5w20, then it would be fine to use 5w20 all year too. If it was me, I would run 5w in winter and 10w the rest of the year
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me. I use 0/5w 20/30 in all liquid-cooled engines per manufacture recommendation and 10w30 in my air cooled lawn tractor. Ed
Originally Posted By: barkingspider
There are a lot of 10w30 haters on this forum. I agree that u can run 10w30 all year and the noack numbers are higher, but if your vehicle is spec for 5w20, then it would be fine to use 5w20 all year too. If it was me, I would run 5w in winter and 10w the rest of the year
A lot of "old school" guys I talk with swear by 10w30 oils. They said they've never been swayed by the entire "CAFE" [censored] that's being shoved down our throat. Now these are old guys, having owned multiple vehicles & put on average of 300K+ on each of them running nothing but 10w30. They swear that switching to these "water" oils as they call them, has a direct effect on engine longevity. Most of these guys build engines for a living & absolutely will not run anything below a 10w oil. They say that 10w30 is the BEST all around motor oil you can put in a vehicle.....of course unless you're living in Alaska & it's -30* below zero.
There are a lot of 10w30 haters on this forum. I agree that u can run 10w30 all year and the noack numbers are higher, but if your vehicle is spec for 5w20, then it would be fine to use 5w20 all year too. If it was me, I would run 5w in winter and 10w the rest of the year
A lot of "old school" guys I talk with swear by 10w30 oils. They said they've never been swayed by the entire "CAFE" [censored] that's being shoved down our throat. Now these are old guys, having owned multiple vehicles & put on average of 300K+ on each of them running nothing but 10w30. They swear that switching to these "water" oils as they call them, has a direct effect on engine longevity. Most of these guys build engines for a living & absolutely will not run anything below a 10w oil. They say that 10w30 is the BEST all around motor oil you can put in a vehicle.....of course unless you're living in Alaska & it's -30* below zero.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me. I use 0/5w 20/30 in all liquid-cooled engines per manufacture recommendation and 10w30 in my air cooled lawn tractor. Ed
I said the same thing, however if you look at CCS numbers from a 5w30 vs 10w30 synthetic, there is virtually ZERO difference in Cold Cranking Performance (which was pointed out to me)......
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me. I use 0/5w 20/30 in all liquid-cooled engines per manufacture recommendation and 10w30 in my air cooled lawn tractor. Ed
I said the same thing, however if you look at CCS numbers from a 5w30 vs 10w30 synthetic, there is virtually ZERO difference in Cold Cranking Performance (which was pointed out to me)......
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me.
Why ?
It's like the first 20 minutes...and within the pumpable range, all "W"s get to the remote ends around the same time.
The warmup wear is additive activation, corrosion and condensation stuff...and the "W" does SFA there.
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me.
Why ?
It's like the first 20 minutes...and within the pumpable range, all "W"s get to the remote ends around the same time.
The warmup wear is additive activation, corrosion and condensation stuff...and the "W" does SFA there.
Originally Posted By: Fasttimez
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me. I use 0/5w 20/30 in all liquid-cooled engines per manufacture recommendation and 10w30 in my air cooled lawn tractor. Ed
I said the same thing, however if you look at CCS numbers from a 5w30 vs 10w30 synthetic, there is virtually ZERO difference in Cold Cranking Performance (which was pointed out to me)......
OK then you've answered your own question.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me. I use 0/5w 20/30 in all liquid-cooled engines per manufacture recommendation and 10w30 in my air cooled lawn tractor. Ed
I said the same thing, however if you look at CCS numbers from a 5w30 vs 10w30 synthetic, there is virtually ZERO difference in Cold Cranking Performance (which was pointed out to me)......
OK then you've answered your own question.
I would lean towards the 10w-30. I ran a 0w-30 synthetic a LONG time ago in my LS400 for 3 oils changes and my engine would rattle on start up. Not every time but very often it would be really noisy on startup. People can say what they want but I heard the noise. Since that time I have used 0w-40 for several oil changes in several of "my" cars (not the IS350 and Highlander as they are my son's) and I didn't get any start up noise. So, maybe it was just a fluke with the oil or oil filter???? It's still hard to forget that rattle.
Now if you look at my old stuff, I run 10w-40 Full synthetic and my engines are very quiet. I live with the same temperature range as you do.
To MY knowledge there is no definitive unbiased proof concerning this thinner vs thicker discussion. I went with my gut. It's hard for me to use a 5w-30. It just doesn't sit with me. From the way you worded your question, you aren't gonna have peace unless you use a 10w-30. I think the 10w-30 will serve you well. 10w-40 has given me many many miles of service free driving. And I know other people can say the same thing about their 0w-20.
Now if you look at my old stuff, I run 10w-40 Full synthetic and my engines are very quiet. I live with the same temperature range as you do.
To MY knowledge there is no definitive unbiased proof concerning this thinner vs thicker discussion. I went with my gut. It's hard for me to use a 5w-30. It just doesn't sit with me. From the way you worded your question, you aren't gonna have peace unless you use a 10w-30. I think the 10w-30 will serve you well. 10w-40 has given me many many miles of service free driving. And I know other people can say the same thing about their 0w-20.
Originally Posted By: Gebo
I would lean towards the 10w-30. I ran a 0w-30 synthetic a LONG time ago in my LS400 for 3 oils changes and my engine would rattle on start up. Not every time but very often it would be really noisy on startup. People can say what they want but I heard the noise. Since that time I have used 0w-40 for several oil changes in several of "my" cars (not the IS350 and Highlander as they are my son's) and I didn't get any start up noise. So, maybe it was just a fluke with the oil or oil filter???? It's still hard to forget that rattle.
Now if you look at my old stuff, I run 10w-40 Full synthetic and my engines are very quiet. I live with the same temperature range as you do.
To MY knowledge there is no definitive unbiased proof concerning this thinner vs thicker discussion. I went with my gut. It's hard for me to use a 5w-30. It just doesn't sit with me. From the way you worded your question, you aren't gonna have peace unless you use a 10w-30. I think the 10w-30 will serve you well. 10w-40 has given me many many miles of service free driving. And I know other people can say the same thing about their 0w-20.
I live in Virginia also, so you know that the lowest it ever gets is mid to high teens in the winter, & that's only like a day or 2 days in a row. Looking at all the numbers provided from the manufacturers, it's hard to argue with my friends about a 10w oil being "maybe" better for your engine vs a 5w considering our climate.
I would lean towards the 10w-30. I ran a 0w-30 synthetic a LONG time ago in my LS400 for 3 oils changes and my engine would rattle on start up. Not every time but very often it would be really noisy on startup. People can say what they want but I heard the noise. Since that time I have used 0w-40 for several oil changes in several of "my" cars (not the IS350 and Highlander as they are my son's) and I didn't get any start up noise. So, maybe it was just a fluke with the oil or oil filter???? It's still hard to forget that rattle.
Now if you look at my old stuff, I run 10w-40 Full synthetic and my engines are very quiet. I live with the same temperature range as you do.
To MY knowledge there is no definitive unbiased proof concerning this thinner vs thicker discussion. I went with my gut. It's hard for me to use a 5w-30. It just doesn't sit with me. From the way you worded your question, you aren't gonna have peace unless you use a 10w-30. I think the 10w-30 will serve you well. 10w-40 has given me many many miles of service free driving. And I know other people can say the same thing about their 0w-20.
I live in Virginia also, so you know that the lowest it ever gets is mid to high teens in the winter, & that's only like a day or 2 days in a row. Looking at all the numbers provided from the manufacturers, it's hard to argue with my friends about a 10w oil being "maybe" better for your engine vs a 5w considering our climate.
If your engine has hydraulic VVT then you have to run a viscosity that will phase the came for best torque. I put 10w30 QSUD in my rogue this recent OCI, and I had to replace 1/2 qt with 5w20 QSUD to get the viscosity in line. Car felt like it was stuck in the mud with too high a viscosity.
Funny that this car specs a 30 grade and QSUD 10w is thinner at temp than the DEXOS 5w30. I don't know what the HTHS is oon the 10W QS; It could be 3.2 or 3.4 cP. HTHS affects piston acceleration off TDC and lightweight short skirted pistons don't appear to take kindly to a HTHS out of the design intent. Ive had ping go away with a lower viscosity oil.
In other words, put in the viscosity the engine is calling for!
You may need a Horse(Power) whisperer to hear what the engine is saying
Funny that this car specs a 30 grade and QSUD 10w is thinner at temp than the DEXOS 5w30. I don't know what the HTHS is oon the 10W QS; It could be 3.2 or 3.4 cP. HTHS affects piston acceleration off TDC and lightweight short skirted pistons don't appear to take kindly to a HTHS out of the design intent. Ive had ping go away with a lower viscosity oil.
In other words, put in the viscosity the engine is calling for!
You may need a Horse(Power) whisperer to hear what the engine is saying
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
If your engine has hydraulic VVT then you have to run a viscosity that will phase the came for best torque. I put 10w30 QSUD in my rogue this recent OCI, and I had to replace 1/2 qt with 5w20 QSUD to get the viscosity in line. Car felt like it was stuck in the mud with too high a viscosity.
Funny that this car specs a 30 grade and QSUD 10w is thinner at temp than the DEXOS 5w30. I don't know what the HTHS is oon the 10W QS; It could be 3.2 or 3.4 cP. HTHS affects piston acceleration off TDC and lightweight short skirted pistons don't appear to take kindly to a HTHS out of the design intent. Ive had ping go away with a lower viscosity oil.
In other words, put in the viscosity the engine is calling for!
You may need a Horse(Power) whisperer to hear what the engine is saying
HaHa, I hear you. I'm not worried about my VVT Cam Phasers. The reason being, my engine is "spe'd" to run 5w20, however the manufacturer states to run 5w50 if I plan on abusing it at the race track. So they had to build in a tolerance for the VVT system to run such a wide range of viscosity for this engine (5.0 Ford V8).
If your engine has hydraulic VVT then you have to run a viscosity that will phase the came for best torque. I put 10w30 QSUD in my rogue this recent OCI, and I had to replace 1/2 qt with 5w20 QSUD to get the viscosity in line. Car felt like it was stuck in the mud with too high a viscosity.
Funny that this car specs a 30 grade and QSUD 10w is thinner at temp than the DEXOS 5w30. I don't know what the HTHS is oon the 10W QS; It could be 3.2 or 3.4 cP. HTHS affects piston acceleration off TDC and lightweight short skirted pistons don't appear to take kindly to a HTHS out of the design intent. Ive had ping go away with a lower viscosity oil.
In other words, put in the viscosity the engine is calling for!
You may need a Horse(Power) whisperer to hear what the engine is saying
HaHa, I hear you. I'm not worried about my VVT Cam Phasers. The reason being, my engine is "spe'd" to run 5w20, however the manufacturer states to run 5w50 if I plan on abusing it at the race track. So they had to build in a tolerance for the VVT system to run such a wide range of viscosity for this engine (5.0 Ford V8).
An oil manufacture can make up a batch of oil targeting a 5W-30 grade-weight.
If the oil comes out a bit on the thin side, it can go in the 0W-30 bottles,
If it comes out a bit thick, it can go in the 10W-30 bottles,
if it comes out just right, it goes in the 5W-30 bottles.
So, in your case (15F to 100F) it matters not in the least.
If the oil comes out a bit on the thin side, it can go in the 0W-30 bottles,
If it comes out a bit thick, it can go in the 10W-30 bottles,
if it comes out just right, it goes in the 5W-30 bottles.
So, in your case (15F to 100F) it matters not in the least.
Originally Posted By: barkingspider
There are a lot of 10w30 haters on this forum. I agree that u can run 10w30 all year and the noack numbers are higher, but if your vehicle is spec for 5w20, then it would be fine to use 5w20 all year too. If it was me, I would run 5w in winter and 10w the rest of the year
+1
There are a lot of 10w30 haters on this forum. I agree that u can run 10w30 all year and the noack numbers are higher, but if your vehicle is spec for 5w20, then it would be fine to use 5w20 all year too. If it was me, I would run 5w in winter and 10w the rest of the year
+1
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
An oil manufacture can make up a batch of oil targeting a 5W-30 grade-weight.
If the oil comes out a bit on the thin side, it can go in the 0W-30 bottles,
If it comes out a bit thick, it can go in the 10W-30 bottles,
if it comes out just right, it goes in the 5W-30 bottles.
So, in your case (15F to 100F) it matters not in the least.
Interesting, I see what you're saying. So in the process of blending a 5w30 oil, if the QC check comes in a bit on the thicker side, instead of disposing of the batch or "doping" it with more additive, they simply label it as a 10w30. Like maybe that batch is on the thinner side for a 10w rating, but way too thick for a 5w rating (say 8w actual). This way they save product & money by relabeling it accordingly.
An oil manufacture can make up a batch of oil targeting a 5W-30 grade-weight.
If the oil comes out a bit on the thin side, it can go in the 0W-30 bottles,
If it comes out a bit thick, it can go in the 10W-30 bottles,
if it comes out just right, it goes in the 5W-30 bottles.
So, in your case (15F to 100F) it matters not in the least.
Interesting, I see what you're saying. So in the process of blending a 5w30 oil, if the QC check comes in a bit on the thicker side, instead of disposing of the batch or "doping" it with more additive, they simply label it as a 10w30. Like maybe that batch is on the thinner side for a 10w rating, but way too thick for a 5w rating (say 8w actual). This way they save product & money by relabeling it accordingly.
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Originally Posted By: Gebo
I would lean towards the 10w-30. I ran a 0w-30 synthetic a LONG time ago in my LS400 for 3 oils changes and my engine would rattle on start up. Not every time but very often it would be really noisy on startup. People can say what they want but I heard the noise. Since that time I have used 0w-40 for several oil changes in several of "my" cars (not the IS350 and Highlander as they are my son's) and I didn't get any start up noise. So, maybe it was just a fluke with the oil or oil filter???? It's still hard to forget that rattle.
Now if you look at my old stuff, I run 10w-40 Full synthetic and my engines are very quiet. I live with the same temperature range as you do.
To MY knowledge there is no definitive unbiased proof concerning this thinner vs thicker discussion. I went with my gut. It's hard for me to use a 5w-30. It just doesn't sit with me. From the way you worded your question, you aren't gonna have peace unless you use a 10w-30. I think the 10w-30 will serve you well. 10w-40 has given me many many miles of service free driving. And I know other people can say the same thing about their 0w-20.
There is an article out there about a guy having less startup rattle with 20w50 then 5w30 even when it was below the recommended operating temp for 20w50. You know what he determined? He determined that after a long hot drive, I think he lived in an area where it was really hot during the day and very cold overnight, but after a long drive he determined that the thin oil would drain off the parts and back into the pan where the thicker 20w50 was more likely to still be on the parts come next startup, thus eliminating startup noise.
I would lean towards the 10w-30. I ran a 0w-30 synthetic a LONG time ago in my LS400 for 3 oils changes and my engine would rattle on start up. Not every time but very often it would be really noisy on startup. People can say what they want but I heard the noise. Since that time I have used 0w-40 for several oil changes in several of "my" cars (not the IS350 and Highlander as they are my son's) and I didn't get any start up noise. So, maybe it was just a fluke with the oil or oil filter???? It's still hard to forget that rattle.
Now if you look at my old stuff, I run 10w-40 Full synthetic and my engines are very quiet. I live with the same temperature range as you do.
To MY knowledge there is no definitive unbiased proof concerning this thinner vs thicker discussion. I went with my gut. It's hard for me to use a 5w-30. It just doesn't sit with me. From the way you worded your question, you aren't gonna have peace unless you use a 10w-30. I think the 10w-30 will serve you well. 10w-40 has given me many many miles of service free driving. And I know other people can say the same thing about their 0w-20.
There is an article out there about a guy having less startup rattle with 20w50 then 5w30 even when it was below the recommended operating temp for 20w50. You know what he determined? He determined that after a long hot drive, I think he lived in an area where it was really hot during the day and very cold overnight, but after a long drive he determined that the thin oil would drain off the parts and back into the pan where the thicker 20w50 was more likely to still be on the parts come next startup, thus eliminating startup noise.
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: Gebo
I would lean towards the 10w-30. I ran a 0w-30 synthetic a LONG time ago in my LS400 for 3 oils changes and my engine would rattle on start up. Not every time but very often it would be really noisy on startup. People can say what they want but I heard the noise. Since that time I have used 0w-40 for several oil changes in several of "my" cars (not the IS350 and Highlander as they are my son's) and I didn't get any start up noise. So, maybe it was just a fluke with the oil or oil filter???? It's still hard to forget that rattle.
Now if you look at my old stuff, I run 10w-40 Full synthetic and my engines are very quiet. I live with the same temperature range as you do.
To MY knowledge there is no definitive unbiased proof concerning this thinner vs thicker discussion. I went with my gut. It's hard for me to use a 5w-30. It just doesn't sit with me. From the way you worded your question, you aren't gonna have peace unless you use a 10w-30. I think the 10w-30 will serve you well. 10w-40 has given me many many miles of service free driving. And I know other people can say the same thing about their 0w-20.
There is an article out there about a guy having less startup rattle with 20w50 then 5w30 even when it was below the recommended operating temp for 20w50. You know what he determined? He determined that after a long hot drive, I think he lived in an area where it was really hot during the day and very cold overnight, but after a long drive he determined that the thin oil would drain off the parts and back into the pan where the thicker 20w50 was more likely to still be on the parts come next startup, thus eliminating startup noise.
Interesting observation also. With our modern oil filters having anti drain back valves in them now, a "dry" start is very hard to do accomplish with any oil viscosity. However I can see a thicker oil staying on valve train parts up top, vs a thinner oil draining off quickly.
Originally Posted By: Gebo
I would lean towards the 10w-30. I ran a 0w-30 synthetic a LONG time ago in my LS400 for 3 oils changes and my engine would rattle on start up. Not every time but very often it would be really noisy on startup. People can say what they want but I heard the noise. Since that time I have used 0w-40 for several oil changes in several of "my" cars (not the IS350 and Highlander as they are my son's) and I didn't get any start up noise. So, maybe it was just a fluke with the oil or oil filter???? It's still hard to forget that rattle.
Now if you look at my old stuff, I run 10w-40 Full synthetic and my engines are very quiet. I live with the same temperature range as you do.
To MY knowledge there is no definitive unbiased proof concerning this thinner vs thicker discussion. I went with my gut. It's hard for me to use a 5w-30. It just doesn't sit with me. From the way you worded your question, you aren't gonna have peace unless you use a 10w-30. I think the 10w-30 will serve you well. 10w-40 has given me many many miles of service free driving. And I know other people can say the same thing about their 0w-20.
There is an article out there about a guy having less startup rattle with 20w50 then 5w30 even when it was below the recommended operating temp for 20w50. You know what he determined? He determined that after a long hot drive, I think he lived in an area where it was really hot during the day and very cold overnight, but after a long drive he determined that the thin oil would drain off the parts and back into the pan where the thicker 20w50 was more likely to still be on the parts come next startup, thus eliminating startup noise.
Interesting observation also. With our modern oil filters having anti drain back valves in them now, a "dry" start is very hard to do accomplish with any oil viscosity. However I can see a thicker oil staying on valve train parts up top, vs a thinner oil draining off quickly.
Kestas
Staff member
I remember looking at the viscosity versus temperature graphs for 5W and 10W oils. What I got from it is that 5W buys you 15°F in temperature; i.e., a 5W at 30°F has the same viscosity as 10W at 45°F.
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