In a Dodge 5.2 V8 I'd use a good brand name 5 or 10W30 like Castrol or Pennzoil. The 5.2's are on Amsoil's sludge motor list so the oil will need to be changed often, say every 5K or so. I would lean toward the 5W30 myself, that's what I use in my 1996 5.2.
5w30 v. 10w30
- Thread starter vance1
- Start date
- Status
My uncle uses Syntec 10W30 in his 2001 Ram, with 105K...had the valve cover gaskets done, totally spotless...he does do 3K intervals though.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: scoobie
And ALL 5w30 is better oil than 10w30.
Care to back that statement up? Sooooo much wrong with your post.
What exactly is 5-30 better at? Starting the car at 0F? Most of us rarely have to worry about anything below 32F in the middle of winter. Lets not even talk about summer temps.
Shearing to a lower weight is not the only reason to run a heavier oil. Put your 5-30 [censored] in a Powerstroke and run it hard.
High revs are not the only thing that shear oil.
I was going to say something about the 6.0 Powerstroke also!
Originally Posted By: scoobie
And ALL 5w30 is better oil than 10w30.
Care to back that statement up? Sooooo much wrong with your post.
What exactly is 5-30 better at? Starting the car at 0F? Most of us rarely have to worry about anything below 32F in the middle of winter. Lets not even talk about summer temps.
Shearing to a lower weight is not the only reason to run a heavier oil. Put your 5-30 [censored] in a Powerstroke and run it hard.
High revs are not the only thing that shear oil.
I was going to say something about the 6.0 Powerstroke also!
Yes, he made a pretty broad brushstroke, but still.....
First, most of our motors are going to outlast our cars.
As previously posted, my very heavily loaded tow vehicles are past 240K miles and burn no oil at all, using 0W20 (mobil 1 ) and so I ask:
Why would I accept lower gas mileage with a heavier oil?
Why would I want a vehicle that needs towed every winter when skiing the mountains and morning temps reach -40, or lower?
Hint: you miss a day of skiing, and there are many more failed vehicles than there are wreckers.
Another poster said "most wear occurs at startup, not during warmup" and yet the very complete tests published by GM and
Mobil - and others - show that piston/cylinder wear is far greater during warmup. Once the oil is hot, and viscosity reaches "10" the oil flying off the rod bearings and up onto the cylinder wall is like a shower, and wear is nearly zilch.
Thick (cold) oil hardly flows out of the rod bearings at all (remember, .002 clearance) and the cylinder walls run with very marginal lubrication until the oil thins.
QuiZ: How many remember the Ford experiment (1974 to 1977), eliminating the little extra squirt hole on the big end of the rods, and a machining operation?
Many engines failed, with severe cylinder wall wear at around 35 to 50K miles. In my work group, Ford paid to fix 2 Pinto's, 1 Maverick 6 cylinder and a Lincoln Continental.
According to Ford, this failure only occured in the northern states. Ford replaced the rods with new ones - with the hole drilled in - when warranting the motors.
Of course I am aware of reasons why 10W30 is sometimes specified, the 90 degree V6's (GM 3.8, )with the split crank design come to mind. The split rod journals caused many compromises in the design process. Many technical papers have been written on all the steps that finally made this an acceptable engine.
(Now would be a good time for a crankshaft design engineer to refresh us on all the details)
First, most of our motors are going to outlast our cars.
As previously posted, my very heavily loaded tow vehicles are past 240K miles and burn no oil at all, using 0W20 (mobil 1 ) and so I ask:
Why would I accept lower gas mileage with a heavier oil?
Why would I want a vehicle that needs towed every winter when skiing the mountains and morning temps reach -40, or lower?
Hint: you miss a day of skiing, and there are many more failed vehicles than there are wreckers.
Another poster said "most wear occurs at startup, not during warmup" and yet the very complete tests published by GM and
Mobil - and others - show that piston/cylinder wear is far greater during warmup. Once the oil is hot, and viscosity reaches "10" the oil flying off the rod bearings and up onto the cylinder wall is like a shower, and wear is nearly zilch.
Thick (cold) oil hardly flows out of the rod bearings at all (remember, .002 clearance) and the cylinder walls run with very marginal lubrication until the oil thins.
QuiZ: How many remember the Ford experiment (1974 to 1977), eliminating the little extra squirt hole on the big end of the rods, and a machining operation?
Many engines failed, with severe cylinder wall wear at around 35 to 50K miles. In my work group, Ford paid to fix 2 Pinto's, 1 Maverick 6 cylinder and a Lincoln Continental.
According to Ford, this failure only occured in the northern states. Ford replaced the rods with new ones - with the hole drilled in - when warranting the motors.
Of course I am aware of reasons why 10W30 is sometimes specified, the 90 degree V6's (GM 3.8, )with the split crank design come to mind. The split rod journals caused many compromises in the design process. Many technical papers have been written on all the steps that finally made this an acceptable engine.
(Now would be a good time for a crankshaft design engineer to refresh us on all the details)
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
What about the Honda S2000? It's recommended oil is 10W30.
That or 5W-40 (to be used in colder climates according to my European manual)
IOW, even Honda thinks its slightly better to have a thinner oil during a cold start-up for the S2000, IMO because it revs to 2000 rpm straight after a cold start.
FYI: currently using 5w30, have used 0w30 with a good UOA.
What about the Honda S2000? It's recommended oil is 10W30.
That or 5W-40 (to be used in colder climates according to my European manual)
IOW, even Honda thinks its slightly better to have a thinner oil during a cold start-up for the S2000, IMO because it revs to 2000 rpm straight after a cold start.
FYI: currently using 5w30, have used 0w30 with a good UOA.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Interesting fact:
Mobil 1 0w40 leaks in my Townie.
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 does not.
I've had ZERO oil loss since I switched from the 0w40 to the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck..... Not bad for an old girl with 337,000 on her......
I've run about every oil grade under the sun. In this particular engine family, I have found that the 5w40/0w40 "feel" the best.
Every engine family is different......
Mobil 1 0w40 leaks in my Townie.
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 does not.
I've had ZERO oil loss since I switched from the 0w40 to the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck..... Not bad for an old girl with 337,000 on her......
I've run about every oil grade under the sun. In this particular engine family, I have found that the 5w40/0w40 "feel" the best.
Every engine family is different......
Originally Posted By: fsskier
Of course I am aware of reasons why 10W30 is sometimes specified, the 90 degree V6's (GM 3.8, )with the split crank design come to mind. The split rod journals caused many compromises in the design process. Many technical papers have been written on all the steps that finally made this an acceptable engine.
(Now would be a good time for a crankshaft design engineer to refresh us on all the details)
On the '89 TTA, the crank (same casting) was cross drilled. On all of the turbo cars, the same casting was used as the NA ones but the rod fillets were rolled. It's scary to think I'm running on a stock crank in my GN. They look so incredibly weak.
Of course I am aware of reasons why 10W30 is sometimes specified, the 90 degree V6's (GM 3.8, )with the split crank design come to mind. The split rod journals caused many compromises in the design process. Many technical papers have been written on all the steps that finally made this an acceptable engine.
(Now would be a good time for a crankshaft design engineer to refresh us on all the details)
On the '89 TTA, the crank (same casting) was cross drilled. On all of the turbo cars, the same casting was used as the NA ones but the rod fillets were rolled. It's scary to think I'm running on a stock crank in my GN. They look so incredibly weak.
They say there is no such thing as a stupid question, but I have a question which I am sure most people on this site will find stupid, but I will ask anyway. What is the temperture range in which a 5w30 oil becomes a 10w30 oil? What temperture does the 5w become a 10w or 15w? My concern is that with this truck is that it will not get much use and when it does it will not be for long periods of time. Someone mentioned earlier this engine being prone to sludge. It may not get 3000 miles put on it in a year. That is why I was thinking maybe using the Rotella 5w40 and changing once a year. But if I need to change it every few months then I would probably go with the 5w30 or 10w30. What say you?
Personally I wouldn't run rotella 5w40 in a gasoline engine especially if it was manufactured from 2000 to present mainly because of the additive package in it. Rotella is a diesel engine oil so the additive package put in there would not be designed to be used in a gasoline engine. If you are looking for a good oil Try Running Castrol GTX High Mileage 10w30. I run it in my 2000 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 with 138,675 miles and it is great stuff. It Is high in detergents so it cleans the engine, and it is cleaner than Mobil 1 full synthetic! and the greatest thing about it is the fact that when i ran 5w30 and 10/30 oils from other top brands i had to add a quart of oil between oil changes but since i started running castrol gtx high mileage 10/30 i never had to add any oil between changes. I have been using it for a year now, or 12,000 miles, that would be 4 oil changes in my book. Hard to belive I know, but I strongly recomend it based on personal experience
Originally Posted By: fsskier
Why would I want a vehicle that needs towed every winter when skiing the mountains and morning temps reach -40, or lower?
Hint: you miss a day of skiing, and there are many more failed vehicles than there are wreckers.
I have no idea what you're saying. There are mountains in Iowa?
LOL. Who would run 10W30 when it's -40? For that matter, who would run 5W30?
Originally Posted By: fsskier
Another poster said "most wear occurs at startup, not during warmup" and yet the very complete tests published by GM and
Mobil - and others - show that piston/cylinder wear is far greater during warmup. Once the oil is hot, and viscosity reaches "10" the oil flying off the rod bearings and up onto the cylinder wall is like a shower, and wear is nearly zilch.
Thick (cold) oil hardly flows out of the rod bearings at all (remember, .002 clearance) and the cylinder walls run with very marginal lubrication until the oil thins.
Well, show me the papers. I remember seeing an older paper on SAE30 showing it protected better than 10W30 during startup. I couldn't find the paper here, but I know I've seen it.
Besides that, consider that a typical Jeep club trail ride consists of driving a bit, winching, high RPM in low range on tough obstacles, stop to extricate someone, start and go again(still in low range), etc. My engine hardly gets to operating temp, nevermind the oil getting hot. So if "far greater wear" occurs during warm up, where was all the wear in the last two used oil analysis of my 2.5L Jeep trail rig running SAE30 (the beefy 12.1cSt Delo) or 10W40? How about when I was sitting on my side waiting to get pushed back over?
There is no question that 5W30 flows better when it's cold out. That's a no brainer. The idea though, that thick oil is the devil and that my engine will pop if I don't run 0W20 doesn't make sense. I'm not against thin oils (I use 5W20 in my F150), but thick oils have their place too.
Originally Posted By: grease_monkey
Personally I wouldn't run rotella 5w40 in a gasoline engine especially if it was manufactured from 2000 to present mainly because of the additive package in it. Rotella is a diesel engine oil so the additive package put in there would not be designed to be used in a gasoline engine.
Sorry man, that just isn't true. Rotella 5W40 is SM rated and perfectly fine for gasoline use. People (including me) have been running HDEO's for years.
Why would I want a vehicle that needs towed every winter when skiing the mountains and morning temps reach -40, or lower?
Hint: you miss a day of skiing, and there are many more failed vehicles than there are wreckers.
I have no idea what you're saying. There are mountains in Iowa?
LOL. Who would run 10W30 when it's -40? For that matter, who would run 5W30?
Originally Posted By: fsskier
Another poster said "most wear occurs at startup, not during warmup" and yet the very complete tests published by GM and
Mobil - and others - show that piston/cylinder wear is far greater during warmup. Once the oil is hot, and viscosity reaches "10" the oil flying off the rod bearings and up onto the cylinder wall is like a shower, and wear is nearly zilch.
Thick (cold) oil hardly flows out of the rod bearings at all (remember, .002 clearance) and the cylinder walls run with very marginal lubrication until the oil thins.
Well, show me the papers. I remember seeing an older paper on SAE30 showing it protected better than 10W30 during startup. I couldn't find the paper here, but I know I've seen it.
Besides that, consider that a typical Jeep club trail ride consists of driving a bit, winching, high RPM in low range on tough obstacles, stop to extricate someone, start and go again(still in low range), etc. My engine hardly gets to operating temp, nevermind the oil getting hot. So if "far greater wear" occurs during warm up, where was all the wear in the last two used oil analysis of my 2.5L Jeep trail rig running SAE30 (the beefy 12.1cSt Delo) or 10W40? How about when I was sitting on my side waiting to get pushed back over?
There is no question that 5W30 flows better when it's cold out. That's a no brainer. The idea though, that thick oil is the devil and that my engine will pop if I don't run 0W20 doesn't make sense. I'm not against thin oils (I use 5W20 in my F150), but thick oils have their place too.
Originally Posted By: grease_monkey
Personally I wouldn't run rotella 5w40 in a gasoline engine especially if it was manufactured from 2000 to present mainly because of the additive package in it. Rotella is a diesel engine oil so the additive package put in there would not be designed to be used in a gasoline engine.
Sorry man, that just isn't true. Rotella 5W40 is SM rated and perfectly fine for gasoline use. People (including me) have been running HDEO's for years.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: grease_monkey
Personally I wouldn't run rotella 5w40 in a gasoline engine especially if it was manufactured from 2000 to present mainly because of the additive package in it. Rotella is a diesel engine oil so the additive package put in there would not be designed to be used in a gasoline engine. If you are looking for a good oil Try Running Castrol GTX High Mileage 10w30. I run it in my 2000 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 with 138,675 miles and it is great stuff. It Is high in detergents so it cleans the engine, and it is cleaner than Mobil 1 full synthetic! and the greatest thing about it is the fact that when i ran 5w30 and 10/30 oils from other top brands i had to add a quart of oil between oil changes but since i started running castrol gtx high mileage 10/30 i never had to add any oil between changes. I have been using it for a year now, or 12,000 miles, that would be 4 oil changes in my book. Hard to belive I know, but I strongly recomend it based on personal experience
I don't think I've ever seen anything keep an engine cleaner than Mobil 1. And I've seen quite a few engines run on GTX; we used to buy it by the case for the boats, tractors, Blazer and other junk around the cottage.
A good friend's 302 was run on it and lets just say his was disgusting. Stuck rings on 5 cylinders. Not sludged up, but far from clean.
Personally I wouldn't run rotella 5w40 in a gasoline engine especially if it was manufactured from 2000 to present mainly because of the additive package in it. Rotella is a diesel engine oil so the additive package put in there would not be designed to be used in a gasoline engine. If you are looking for a good oil Try Running Castrol GTX High Mileage 10w30. I run it in my 2000 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 with 138,675 miles and it is great stuff. It Is high in detergents so it cleans the engine, and it is cleaner than Mobil 1 full synthetic! and the greatest thing about it is the fact that when i ran 5w30 and 10/30 oils from other top brands i had to add a quart of oil between oil changes but since i started running castrol gtx high mileage 10/30 i never had to add any oil between changes. I have been using it for a year now, or 12,000 miles, that would be 4 oil changes in my book. Hard to belive I know, but I strongly recomend it based on personal experience
I don't think I've ever seen anything keep an engine cleaner than Mobil 1. And I've seen quite a few engines run on GTX; we used to buy it by the case for the boats, tractors, Blazer and other junk around the cottage.
A good friend's 302 was run on it and lets just say his was disgusting. Stuck rings on 5 cylinders. Not sludged up, but far from clean.
I can vouch for the cleaning ability of GTX High Mileage. I bought a vehicle that had been run on Pennzoil bulk for about 100,000 miles or so and the deposits were unbelievable. I figured I'd run the GTX High Mileage and see what it would do before I did a flush or MMO treatment. After three OCI's the motor was spotless as far as I could tell.
On the three vehicles I own that I feel benefit from High Mileage oils, one gets Maxlife and two get GTX High Mileage. I believe in playing around with them and seeing which one responds better to your application.
On the three vehicles I own that I feel benefit from High Mileage oils, one gets Maxlife and two get GTX High Mileage. I believe in playing around with them and seeing which one responds better to your application.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Are these junk-prone engines though? Ford Windsor engines seem to be "dirtier" than others...... Not unlike a small block Chevy.....
at the risk of throwing some actual numbers into the discussion...
here is a little survey i did of wear on various oil vis. i hope you will find it enlightening
10w30
sample size 7
avg vis at 100 11.1
avg Fe/1000 miles 2.22
avg Pb/1000 miles 1.523
5w30
sample size 8
avg vis at 100 9.63
avg Fe/1000 miles 3.57
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.342
0w30
sample size 7
avg vis at 100 10.966
avg Fe/1000 miles 2.07
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.987
0w40
sample size 6
avg vis at 100 11.98
avg Fe/1000 miles 1.83
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.29
5w20
sample size 7
avg vis at 100 7.91
avg Fe/1000 miles 1.56
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.13
0w20
sample size 7
avg vis at 100 8.58
avg Fe/1000 miles 1.257
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.62
couple of comments.
this is in one sense a really rough cut. it makes no distinction between oils, applications, etc. on the other hand, this is probably the best way to do a "general" study of oil vis. i think the 0w-20 Pb numbers are a little skewed due to the large number of prius reports (start/stop cycle at every light).
here is a little survey i did of wear on various oil vis. i hope you will find it enlightening
10w30
sample size 7
avg vis at 100 11.1
avg Fe/1000 miles 2.22
avg Pb/1000 miles 1.523
5w30
sample size 8
avg vis at 100 9.63
avg Fe/1000 miles 3.57
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.342
0w30
sample size 7
avg vis at 100 10.966
avg Fe/1000 miles 2.07
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.987
0w40
sample size 6
avg vis at 100 11.98
avg Fe/1000 miles 1.83
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.29
5w20
sample size 7
avg vis at 100 7.91
avg Fe/1000 miles 1.56
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.13
0w20
sample size 7
avg vis at 100 8.58
avg Fe/1000 miles 1.257
avg Pb/1000 miles 0.62
couple of comments.
this is in one sense a really rough cut. it makes no distinction between oils, applications, etc. on the other hand, this is probably the best way to do a "general" study of oil vis. i think the 0w-20 Pb numbers are a little skewed due to the large number of prius reports (start/stop cycle at every light).
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Would the oils not have to be run in the same engines to provide a valid suite of data though?
Many of the engines that spec the 0w40 would likely kill other oils, like the Porsche Turbo's.....
Many of the engines that spec the 0w40 would likely kill other oils, like the Porsche Turbo's.....
Originally Posted By: grease_monkey
Personally I wouldn't run rotella 5w40 in a gasoline engine especially if it was manufactured from 2000 to present mainly because of the additive package in it. Rotella is a diesel engine oil so the additive package put in there would not be designed to be used in a gasoline engine. If you are looking for a good oil Try Running Castrol GTX High Mileage 10w30. I run it in my 2000 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 with 138,675 miles and it is great stuff. It Is high in detergents so it cleans the engine, and it is cleaner than Mobil 1 full synthetic! and the greatest thing about it is the fact that when i ran 5w30 and 10/30 oils from other top brands i had to add a quart of oil between oil changes but since i started running castrol gtx high mileage 10/30 i never had to add any oil between changes. I have been using it for a year now, or 12,000 miles, that would be 4 oil changes in my book. Hard to belive I know, but I strongly recomend it based on personal experience
Rotella 5w40 can definitely be run on just about any gasoline engine...it was designed for mixed-fleets of diesel/gas.
Both the old formula and the new formula are rated for gas engines. Just check the label....
Personally I wouldn't run rotella 5w40 in a gasoline engine especially if it was manufactured from 2000 to present mainly because of the additive package in it. Rotella is a diesel engine oil so the additive package put in there would not be designed to be used in a gasoline engine. If you are looking for a good oil Try Running Castrol GTX High Mileage 10w30. I run it in my 2000 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 with 138,675 miles and it is great stuff. It Is high in detergents so it cleans the engine, and it is cleaner than Mobil 1 full synthetic! and the greatest thing about it is the fact that when i ran 5w30 and 10/30 oils from other top brands i had to add a quart of oil between oil changes but since i started running castrol gtx high mileage 10/30 i never had to add any oil between changes. I have been using it for a year now, or 12,000 miles, that would be 4 oil changes in my book. Hard to belive I know, but I strongly recomend it based on personal experience
Rotella 5w40 can definitely be run on just about any gasoline engine...it was designed for mixed-fleets of diesel/gas.
Both the old formula and the new formula are rated for gas engines. Just check the label....
So what does everybody think about my oil change schedule if I go with the rotella 5w40? Change once a year since this truck probably wont see 3000 miles on it in a year. Maybe I should stick with 10w30 and change it every 6 months. What say you?
once a year with Rotella 5w40 would be way overkill. plan on 3 year oil changes and don't worry if you miss a year.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked