5W20 Fuel Dilution GDI - Ideal OCI ?

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In a typical GDI engine - how many miles on 5W20 (Quaker State Ultimate Durability) should I start to be concerned about fuel dilution (90% suburban / 10% H'Way driving) ... 4,000 , 5000 , 6,000 miles ? I happen to have a Hyundai GDI engine , so it may be better or worse than other makes . Lastly , while a Blackstone evaluation would be most exact - I'll ue my low tech method (nose & dipstick) for the time being for fuel dilution testing .
 
Hard to tell unless you do used oil analysis and map the trends.
In Canada, Hyundai and KIA have 3750 mile OCI requirements in place.
 
No easy answer to this question, but a few thoughts:

1) The "nose test" may or may not be reliable given individual sensitivity. A oil analysis is the only reliable way to reach a conclusion.

2) If fuel dilution is your concern, forget about Blackstone as its methodology is deeply flawed: try Oil Analyzers, which uses gas chromotography, instead. I believe you can get a single test kit through Amsoil.

3) A consequence is fuel dilution is reduced oil viscosity. Dilution of 5% (which isn't that uncommon in DI engines) can reduce viscosity by one full grade. So whether you test or not, consider moving to a 5w30 or 5w-40 as allowed by Hyundai.

4) My DI Honda is a fuel diluter and my experience is dilution occurs pretty quickly but then stabilizes, albeit at an uncomfortably high level. Highway driving doesn't seem to really "burn off" excess fuel as one would expect. So, short of changing oil every 1,000 miles, there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution.

5) If you do have fuel dilution, some have found using 91/93 octane fuel helps.

So, if you don't want to go the UOA route, I'd suggest going up a grade or two in viscosity with an oil change interval of 4-5 months, 4-5,000 miles. My Honda doesn't allow a viscosity other than 0w-20 for warranty, so I'm on a 4 month/4,000 mile regimen.

I'd encourage you to invest the $30 or so for a used oil analysis from Oil Analyzers. You may not have a problem, but if you do you'll at least know its extent.

Good luck!
 
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Blackstone is anything but exact. They don't measure the fuel concentration directly, and from what I've seen on here it can be way off. Using an analysis company that employs gas chromatography to measure dilution is much better.

http://www.spectrosci.com/resource-cente...-fuel-dilution/

I also agree that the nose test is not accurate either. On my Sienna I always smell fuel but a couple of analysis by whatever company that did it for our airplanes showed low concentration via CG.
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
No easy answer to this question, but a few thoughts:

1) The "nose test" may or may not be reliable given individual sensitivity. A oil analysis is the only reliable way to reach a conclusion.

2) If fuel dilution is your concern, forget about Blackstone as its methodology is deeply flawed: try Oil Analyzers, which uses gas chromotography, instead. I believe you can get a single test kit through Amsoil.

3) A consequence is fuel dilution is reduced oil viscosity. Dilution of 5% (which isn't that uncommon in DI engines) can reduce viscosity by one full grade. So whether you test or not, consider moving to a 5w30 or 5w-40 as allowed by Hyundai.

4) My DI Honda is a fuel diluter and my experience is dilution occurs pretty quickly but then stabilizes, albeit at an uncomfortably high level. Highway driving doesn't seem to really "burn off" excess fuel as one would expect. So, short of changing oil every 1,000 miles, there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution.

5) If you do have fuel dilution, some have found using 91/93 octane fuel helps.

So, if you don't want to go the used oil analysis route, I'd suggest going up a grade or two in viscosity with an oil change interval of 4-5 months, 4-5,000 miles. My Honda doesn't allow a viscosity other than 0w-20 for warranty, so I'm on a 4 month/4,000 mile regimen.

I'd encourage you to invest the $30 or so for a used oil analysis from Oil Analyzers. You may not have a problem, but if you do you'll at least know its extent.

Good luck!



I think this is excellent advise. I just today got back my used oil analysis from both BlackStone and OilAnalyzers for a sample I just ran in my 2.0T Optima (3.8K mile on the sample). I'll post it up later but there is a BIG difference between these two on the fuel dilution issue. I drove mine ~17 miles on the highway before changing it to get a good and hot sample. I run Costco/Shell 93 octane gas (it is my DD), have an Oil Catch Can (a very good one) and run Mobil 1 0W-40 oil with OCI of ~4K miles. Not much else to do about it. Car runs GREAT, never uses oil.
 
That big motor should like having some 30 grade. Try substituting 1 qt of the whole sump with same 30 grade Quaker State Ultimate Durability. The dealer service cant know and doesn't care really. They just wanna see oil changed somewhat regularly. They are not going to UOA your oil if you have engine issues.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
That big motor should like having some 30 grade. Try substituting 1 qt of the whole sump with same 30 grade Quaker State Ultimate Durability. The dealer service cant know and doesn't care really. They just wanna see oil changed somewhat regularly. They are not going to UOA your oil if you have engine issues.


One quart of 30 grade will do little to thicken the remaining 20 grade. I'm pretty sure Hyundais recommended OCI is 3750 mi for severe service and 7500 for normal use. Unless you are primarily a highway driver the 3750 OCI would be for you. I wouldn't worry about a 20 grade holding up for 3750, or even 7500 miles.
 
For % fuel check w/o lab
You can try evaporating a 250cc sample at 150c for 1 hour and see how much goes away. Please Don't do it inside the house on the stove!
Do you have a hot plate or warmer? You can use some virgin oil as a "control" but such oil has not been aged and that will have a high % off due to pack solvents, but its better than nothing. You can put the boiled oil back in the car, if you are so inclined. No hay Problema
 
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Thanks for replis to date - with my driving habits being in the suburbs (majority is 45 min. drives one way to work and back home during rush hour) plus running errands on the weekend put me closer to the 3,750 severe service category. I'm basically wanting (hoping) 5W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability can handle a 4,000 ~ 5,000 OCI ? While my city gas mileage is 3 MPG lower than what Hyundai states I should be getting the engine only has 2,000 miles on it and not fully broken in . *I wll also note Hyundai has done something (VVT ?) with the 2.4L GDI Thta II engine as after 2,000 miles on a new vehicle there is no smell and the oil barely has any color to it (very light gold / tan) and certainly no way even close to black ! Just making note as earlier versions of the 2.4L GDI engine would have oil turn black within 1,000 miles . Hyundai only recommends 5W20 and states : "5W30 and 10W30 are acceptable" to use. While the Mobil 1 0W40 is not recommended by Hyundai would it actually hurt the engine ? I ask because the Mobil 1 0W40 gets much love by users here on the forum . Lastly , I have not tried any grade of Tier One gas except 87 octane . Not sure if 89 octane or higher would help with fuel dilution or increase gas mileage ?
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
That big motor should like having some 30 grade. Try substituting 1 qt of the whole sump with same 30 grade Quaker State Ultimate Durability. The dealer service cant know and doesn't care really. They just wanna see oil changed somewhat regularly. They are not going to UOA your oil if you have engine issues.


I believe Hyundai says 5w-20, 5w30 or 10w30 (in certain temps) are appropriate for this engine, so no need to sneak just a bit of 30 weight into a change. Wish other manufacturers allowed this flexibility.
 
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Lastly , I have not tried any grade of Tier One gas except 87 octane . Not sure if 89 octane or higher would help with fuel dilution or increase gas mileage ?

The only reason you may get better mileage out of 89 or higher is if it does not have ethanol and the 87 does have ethanol. 10% ethanol gives you about a 3% reduction in mileage vs 100% gasoline.
 
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Thanks for replis to date - with my driving habits being in the suburbs (majority is 45 min. drives one way to work and back home during rush hour) plus running errands on the weekend put me closer to the 3,750 severe service category. I'm basically wanting (hoping) 5W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability can handle a 4,000 ~ 5,000 OCI ? While my city gas mileage is 3 MPG lower than what Hyundai states I should be getting the engine only has 2,000 miles on it and not fully broken in . *I wll also note Hyundai has done something (VVT ?) with the 2.4L GDI Thta II engine as after 2,000 miles on a new vehicle there is no smell and the oil barely has any color to it (very light gold / tan) and certainly no way even close to black ! Just making note as earlier versions of the 2.4L GDI engine would have oil turn black within 1,000 miles . Hyundai only recommends 5W20 and states : "5W30 and 10W30 are acceptable" to use. While the Mobil 1 0W40 is not recommended by Hyundai would it actually hurt the engine ? I ask because the Mobil 1 0W40 gets much love by users here on the forum . Lastly , I have not tried any grade of Tier One gas except 87 octane . Not sure if 89 octane or higher would help with fuel dilution or increase gas mileage ?


If 5w30 is "acceptable" I would use it, especially in your relatively mild climate.

The octane/fuel dilution argument goes like this: it seems some manufacturers enrich the fuel air mixture when preignition is detected. In a DI engine, this cools the combustion charge and reduces preignition but also allows more unburned fuel to perhaps slip past the piston rings. Higher octane seems to help in my Honda (more testing to come) and another poster has evidence it works well in his DI Mazda, but I wouldn't count on a measurable improvement in fuel economy.

Based on your description you may not have a dilution problem in the first place, so I wouldn't jump on the 91/93 octane bandwagon just yet. But I still think a used oil analysis would be useful.
 
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
Originally Posted By: Danh
No easy answer to this question, but a few thoughts:

1) The "nose test" may or may not be reliable given individual sensitivity. A oil analysis is the only reliable way to reach a conclusion.

2) If fuel dilution is your concern, forget about Blackstone as its methodology is deeply flawed: try Oil Analyzers, which uses gas chromotography, instead. I believe you can get a single test kit through Amsoil.

3) A consequence is fuel dilution is reduced oil viscosity. Dilution of 5% (which isn't that uncommon in DI engines) can reduce viscosity by one full grade. So whether you test or not, consider moving to a 5w30 or 5w-40 as allowed by Hyundai.

4) My DI Honda is a fuel diluter and my experience is dilution occurs pretty quickly but then stabilizes, albeit at an uncomfortably high level. Highway driving doesn't seem to really "burn off" excess fuel as one would expect. So, short of changing oil every 1,000 miles, there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution.

5) If you do have fuel dilution, some have found using 91/93 octane fuel helps.

So, if you don't want to go the used oil analysis route, I'd suggest going up a grade or two in viscosity with an oil change interval of 4-5 months, 4-5,000 miles. My Honda doesn't allow a viscosity other than 0w-20 for warranty, so I'm on a 4 month/4,000 mile regimen.

I'd encourage you to invest the $30 or so for a used oil analysis from Oil Analyzers. You may not have a problem, but if you do you'll at least know its extent.

Good luck!



I think this is excellent advise. I just today got back my used oil analysis from both BlackStone and OilAnalyzers for a sample I just ran in my 2.0T Optima (3.8K mile on the sample). I'll post it up later but there is a BIG difference between these two on the fuel dilution issue. I drove mine ~17 miles on the highway before changing it to get a good and hot sample. I run Costco/Shell 93 octane gas (it is my DD), have an Oil Catch Can (a very good one) and run Mobil 1 0W-40 oil with OCI of ~4K miles. Not much else to do about it. Car runs GREAT, never uses oil.


It would be much appreciated if you were to post these used oil analysis. But as a guess, is the OilAnalyzers' fuel dilution 3-4 percentage points higher than Blackstone's?
 
Unless something has recently changed, Hyundai allows for 5w30, they just push the 5w20 to satisfy the CAFE Nazi's and get their bonus bucks. I would (and do) use Magnatec 5w30.
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
Originally Posted By: Danh
No easy answer to this question, but a few thoughts:

1) The "nose test" may or may not be reliable given individual sensitivity. A oil analysis is the only reliable way to reach a conclusion.

2) If fuel dilution is your concern, forget about Blackstone as its methodology is deeply flawed: try Oil Analyzers, which uses gas chromotography, instead. I believe you can get a single test kit through Amsoil.

3) A consequence is fuel dilution is reduced oil viscosity. Dilution of 5% (which isn't that uncommon in DI engines) can reduce viscosity by one full grade. So whether you test or not, consider moving to a 5w30 or 5w-40 as allowed by Hyundai.

4) My DI Honda is a fuel diluter and my experience is dilution occurs pretty quickly but then stabilizes, albeit at an uncomfortably high level. Highway driving doesn't seem to really "burn off" excess fuel as one would expect. So, short of changing oil every 1,000 miles, there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution.

5) If you do have fuel dilution, some have found using 91/93 octane fuel helps.

So, if you don't want to go the used oil analysis route, I'd suggest going up a grade or two in viscosity with an oil change interval of 4-5 months, 4-5,000 miles. My Honda doesn't allow a viscosity other than 0w-20 for warranty, so I'm on a 4 month/4,000 mile regimen.

I'd encourage you to invest the $30 or so for a used oil analysis from Oil Analyzers. You may not have a problem, but if you do you'll at least know its extent.

Good luck!



I think this is excellent advise. I just today got back my used oil analysis from both BlackStone and OilAnalyzers for a sample I just ran in my 2.0T Optima (3.8K mile on the sample). I'll post it up later but there is a BIG difference between these two on the fuel dilution issue. I drove mine ~17 miles on the highway before changing it to get a good and hot sample. I run Costco/Shell 93 octane gas (it is my DD), have an Oil Catch Can (a very good one) and run Mobil 1 0W-40 oil with OCI of ~4K miles. Not much else to do about it. Car runs GREAT, never uses oil.


It would be much appreciated if you were to post these used oil analysis. But as a guess, is the OilAnalyzers' fuel dilution 3-4 percentage points higher than Blackstone's?


Yup, I'm planning on doing that soon. I need to edit out the personal info first (having some minor computer problems at the moment).

Just for a "teaser", the Blackstone report & comments say fuel dilution is at "0.55 - GC" and Oxidation (they considered it severe) at 34 abs/cm. That was the reason I did a dual report, to check them against each other.
 
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