5w-30 compared by LSJr - NAPA, Amsoil, RP, ST

[Urshurak776]

This just in, smoking gets you to 90+ years of age! Data source: Just One person; all the data we need.

My Grandmother passed away at 89. Smoked all her life. SHe had some kidney issues which was the cause of death.

So, maybe 2 in the sample size. Now it's double!

 

[Urshurak776]

So, you don't enjoy his videos ... fair enough. I find some aspects of his YouTube personality off-putting as well. But it's unfair to condemn his videos as clickbait. I'm assuming you know what clickbait is ... From Wikipedia "Clickbait [...] is a text or a thumbnail link that is designed to attract attention and to entice users to follow ("click") that link and view, read, stream or listen to the linked piece of online content, being typically deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading"

I just don't see LSJr as "being typically deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading" That's malicious, and LSr is far from that.

I get your point but never use Wikipedia to try and prove your point. Big no no as it can be edited by anyone. Speaking to you as an adjunct Professor (seriously, I teach a workforce education course once or twice a year.)

 

[Shel_B]

I get your point but never use Wikipedia to try and prove your point. Big no no as it can be edited by anyone. Speaking to you as an adjunct (seriously, I teach a workforce education course once or twice a year.)

Wikki wasn't my only source for a definition. I just happened to land on Wiki when I decided to post. Other sources were various dictionaries and some other sites. They all said pretty much the same thing.

 

[Urshurak776]

Wikki wasn't my only source for a definition. I just happened to land on Wiki when I decided to post. Other sources were various dictionaries and some other sites. They all said pretty much the same thing.

Yeah, CLickbait probably isn't the right word. Like I said, I just don't care for his delivery. Really hard fo rme to watch. Honestly, I only watch two youtube channels about cars: Eric O at SMA and Royalty Auto Service. I lived in Kingsland, GA the last 7 years I was in the Navy, so knew these guys pretty well. Great family (both channels.) Smart guys too.

 

[Shel_B]

Yeah, CLickbait probably isn't the right word. Like I said, I just don't care for his delivery. Really hard fo rme to watch. Honestly, I only watch two youtube channels about cars: Eric O at SMA and Royalty Auto Service. I lived in Kingsland, GA the last 7 years I was in the Navy, so knew these guys pretty well. Great family (both channels.) Smart guys too.

Gotcha ... FWIW, I don't care much for Eric's channel even though I feel he does good work. I certainly appreciate his tone.

 

[Rand]

My Grandmother passed away at 89. Smoked all her life. SHe had some kidney issues which was the cause of death.

So, maybe 2 in the sample size. Now it's double!

My great grandpa worked in a coal mine and smoked unfiltered pipe lived to 95?(iirc was small kid)

 

[Shel_B]

My great grandpa worked in a coal mine and smoked unfiltered pipe lived to 95?(iirc was small kid)

My father was active, athletic, and socially involved, didn't smoke or drink, and died at 43 from brain cancer. It's all random.

 

[Ford2.7]

And this right here folks is why mickey mouse certificates in oil analysis comment writing are not worth anything but this guy having those thinks it's the same as having a chemical engineering degree and calls himself a tribologist "Science not speculation" lol. I love how he went out of this way to make the comment about people saying that this cannot be used conclusively but says it can.

Lake Speed Jr is indeed a Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Analyst. He holds multiple certifications from the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers (STLE). He has had years of experience in formulating lubrication used by Joe Gibbs Racing to win major NASCAR Championships.

 

[TiGeo]

Lake Speed Jr is indeed a Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Analyst. He holds multiple certifications from the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers (STLE). He has had years of experience in formulating lubrication used by Joe Gibbs Racing to win major NASCAR Championships.

Probably better than 99% of the folks posting here w/zero anything.

 

[Glenda W.]

Lake Speed Jr is indeed a Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Analyst. He holds multiple certifications from the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers (STLE). He has had years of experience in formulating lubrication used by Joe Gibbs Racing to win major NASCAR Championships.

Honestly I’m not sure if all those credentials make his good vids better or his bad vids worse…

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

Yeah, CLickbait probably isn't the right word. Like I said, I just don't care for his delivery. Really hard fo rme to watch. Honestly, I only watch two youtube channels about cars: Eric O at SMA and Royalty Auto Service. I lived in Kingsland, GA the last 7 years I was in the Navy, so knew these guys pretty well. Great family (both channels.) Smart guys too.

Fordbossme is the only legit source of information. /s

 

[Urshurak776]

Fordbossme is the only legit source of information. /s

LOL. I hope you're just trolling here......

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

What was the point of even mentioning fuel dilution? Honest question.

I just dropped 180 bucks on a case of oil. I can run it safely for 15-20 thousand miles.
If my car is DI or has some other issue where it pukes fuel into the oil running that oil that long will turn my engine into a grenade.
So I get my engine (oil) tested to make sure I am doing my due diligence and not blowing up my engine.
If it is puking fuel into oil I might as well stick some supertech or whatever in spec cheap oil in there and change it every 5k.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

These are interesting tests. I would like to see real world lets say 6 or 8 month 10k mile tests with TAN and TBN

 

[Tshane3000]

Things we should already know as BITOGers, but this video does help confirm ...

- too much oil in the sump will aerate (foam) and cost power and lose pressure

- UOAs won't see all particles; the little device he does use to see stuff over 10um help prove that larger particles are not very prominent, at least when the sumps are reasonably clean

- to really understand how the oil did, you must have a VOA to judge vis and oxidation, etc so you can understand the delta (change) in each characteristic or parameter, as every batch will be a bit different, every oil brand will be different, and certainly they will be different between spec changes (SM, SM, SP ...)

- spending more won't always get you more; paying 2x more money won't often return 2x greater performance



My additional comments:
- these tests run do NOT indicate any manner of longevity for use; these were dyno runs comparing/contrasting power and don't address duration of use (extended OCIs). In this video, he is using "performance" merely to describe wear control and power in short-term testing. This does not address long-use oxidation, cleanliness factors, etc. If these lubes were run for significantly extended OCIs, there might well be a distinct separation of many traits of wear and cleanliness, oxidation, vis, FP, etc ...
- these tests ignore the statistical variability regarding "normality" (though he does acknowledge the existence of variation, he does nothing to account for it)
- I'm not a fan of his "total wear metals" method; I don't believe adding data values for separate elements is a good way to understand "wear"
- singular UOAs are NOT by any stretch a proper way to compare/contrast one lube to another; small sample sets are rife with variability which cannot be accurately predicted without decent quantity of data (30 samples min)

Can you please spell out the acronyms you used? UOA especially, so many of those are confusing.

 

[silversport]

I have some difficulty with all of these as well...this may help

W

Thread 'Acronyms used at BITOG.'

Apr 21, 2012

Back in 6-2-2011, Char Baby was nice enough to start this list. I copied it and kept it updated with every acronym used on BITOG since then.

If the group would proofread for errors and list any I might have missed, I this this would make a good sticky.


AAP=Advance Auto Parts
ADBV=Anti Drain Back Valve
API=American Petroleum Institute
API-TC=2 cycle, air cooled engine oil specification
AZ=Auto Zone
BITOG=Bob Is The Oil Guy
BOGO=Buy One Get One Free
BP=British Petroleum
COF=Coefficient Of Friction
CP=Conoco Philips (makers of MotorCraft/Kendall/Philips66 and others)
CRD=Common Rail Diesel...

• wally6934
• Replies: 180
• Forum: Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Vehicles

• 
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• 

Bill

 

[FlyingTexan]

It's a bit comical what some here accept as truth. The ones that don't accept real world data from first hand experiences and tell you you can't hear changes in your car's engine and need lab verified data to tell you anything. Then you get someone that works in a lab giving lab based data and now that's not acceptable.

 

[Hootbro]

It's a bit comical what some here accept as truth. The ones that don't accept real world data from first hand experiences and tell you you can't hear changes in your car's engine and need lab verified data to tell you anything. Then you get someone that works in a lab giving lab based data and now that's not acceptable.

So just another normal day on BITOG.

 

[ltslimjim]

It's a bit comical what some here accept as truth. The ones that don't accept real world data from first hand experiences and tell you you can't hear changes in your car's engine and need lab verified data to tell you anything. Then you get someone that works in a lab giving lab based data and now that's not acceptable.

Nuance is a thing. BITOG is more analytical than simply “trust the conclusions”; as some conclusions may not be actually based on sufficient proof. People want the world to be black and white; simple. Most of those types of folks think 3k miles is required still today. Just as an example. That simply is an untrue conclusion; it being “required”, but to keep things simple it’s fine to change your oil that often.

OTOH, there are plenty of valid and informed analysis of the video presentation in the OP.

That said, some folks (many YouTube commenters for example) rushing to conclusions despite it’s limited data are simply trying to make blanket white/black statements, when the truth is we need way more data to attempt to reach comparisons between oils using a simple UOA; which is typically not the purpose or scope of the tools ability. Also, results can change any time a single variable is changed. If the method in the OP video was repeated dozens and dozens of times; one may begin to be able to draw some sort of comparison based conclusions, but they would still be limited to the limitations of the test method.

Instead, understanding the limitations of such a video as a mere demonstration of variation in UOA testing examples; would prevent claims such as stating “Napa synthetic is the best oil here!” Simply not supported by the video. But that requires understanding why those conclusions are erroneous.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Nuance is a thing. BITOG is more analytical than simply “trust the conclusions”; as some conclusions may not be actually based on sufficient proof. People want the world to be black and white; simple. Most of those types of folks think 3k miles is required still today. Just as an example. That simply is an untrue conclusion; it being “required”, but to keep things simple it’s fine to change your oil that often.

OTOH, there are plenty of valid and informed analysis of the video presentation in the OP.

That said, some folks (many YouTube commenters for example) rushing to conclusions despite it’s limited data are simply trying to make blanket white/black statements, when the truth is we need way more data to attempt to reach comparisons between oils using a simple UOA; which is typically not the purpose or scope of the tools ability. Also, results can change any time a single variable is changed. If the method in the OP video was repeated dozens and dozens of times; one may begin to be able to draw some sort of comparison based conclusions, but they would still be limited to the limitations of the test method.

Instead, understanding the limitations of such a video as a mere demonstration of variation in UOA testing examples; would prevent claims such as stating “Napa synthetic is the best oil here!” Simply not supported by the video. But that requires understanding why those conclusions are erroneous.

The thing is that to tell someone they are wrong you have to know that you are right. The “what lab results do you have” crowd are going to harp on everything, including lab results, because it doesn’t fit their narrative. In this case here is someone who is well qualified and before anyone can say his conclusions are wrong I’ll need to see their resume.