5W-20 people - explain this please:

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If you want to get down to brass tacks, we are really splitting hairs here, as most any modern engine will probably go 300k+ on any name brand oil, changed according to the OEM's Severe Service interval, with any oil, dino or synth, from 5W20 to 20W50. There are a few engines that simply do not like thin oils, but if we raise the bar to 30 weights, then the above statement still stands.

This is an oil forum though, and so we are really arguing reserve protection. I still believe a 5W30 will provide more protection than the equivalent 5W20, but that puts the lower limit at semi-synthetic for the thicker oils. That, is where the 5W20 shines, in it's chemistry vs price, but if the chemistry is the same, the 30 weigth will be better, IMO.
 
The Critic -I was referring to GOLD notation on the chart I believe. I do assume that grades higher then 5-20 (i.e. 5-40) will provide better protection but lower fuel efficiency. Why wouldn't I?

As for automatic trannies - I agree 100%. That actually kills me. That's why I change Honda OEM tranny fluid every 10k miles. Trying to have it last at least 200+k for economic reasons. Wish I bought stick shift but then my wife would be redecorating the garage with the front and back end of my car. So we went with Auto.....


2CrazyToYoo - You are right and yes - fair enough:-) . To each his own. There are no solid facts just assumptions based on bits and pieces of information. Still, gotta love a good discussion right?

Auto-Union, the term "Gold" in labeling a product usually means the best (i.e. gold credit card, gold membership, gold medal etc.). Ergo, it appears that heavier oil are "gold"/provide better protection according to the manual?
 
I think you are giving too much weight to the "Gold" label. This is clearly some sort of Google or Babelfish translation and those translation engines are notoriously unreliable when it comes to the Japanese language.
 
The guy means it put's the "Gold" in his pocket!

Do I think, even for a sec that a 5w-40 would do better in my car? No. I have a stash of GC I could use in my Honda, not going there. I will be going with the thinner Mobil 1 0w-30. If I could trade it for 0w-20, I would.
 
By spec’ing 5w-20, one can kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Better CAFÉ fuel economy, and you steer your customers towards high quality oils. The 5w-20 GF-4 is a known quantity as far as quality is concerned because the spec’s are so tough to meet for that class of oils. The high quality of these 5w-20’s is likely the reason they’re back spec’d too. An off the shelf 5w-20 is getting close, or closer to synthetic quality. Has some wear been given up for fuel mileage -- probably, but in the overall scope of things it may not amount to much.

Is a 5w-20 the best for engine protection -- not likely. But it’s a reasonably good solution from the manufacturers POV.

If you are an engineer at GM, and the OLM is calibrated and tested using Grp II based oils, then you want your customers to steer clear of any possible Grp I based oils. In the late 90’s there were probably a lot of Grp I based oils hanging around in the heavier PCMO’s while the 5/10w-30’s were virtually all Grp II. So you put a warning in the owners manual DO NOT USE 10w-40 and 20W-50 oils -- not because of viscosity concerns, but oil quality concerns.

A higher viscosity oil has higher flash points, less volatility, and should be more thermally stable and provide a thicker oil film. So a 10w-30 using higher viscosity base oils should hold up better than a 5w-20 using the same class of oils (as someone already alluded too) -- but in the case of a 5w-20, one can use higher quality basestocks to make up the difference. So what’s better? Hard to say.

I think these viscosity concerns are way overblown. There should be no problem whatsoever running even a 10w-40 in an auto that spec’s 5w-20. That owner manual posted basically shows that anywhere from 5w-20 to 20w-50 can be used in an engine without issue.

We frequently hit -30C in the winter here. The viscosity of my 5w-30 on a cold start is ~ 5200 cP !! It takes 25min for the car to get up to operating temperature and in that time the engine is running with oil that has an incredibly high viscosity. Even when reaching operating temperature, the oil is likely running 40-60F cooler than someone who is driving around in Nevada where its 90F out. A 5w-20 is probably like a 40 - 60 weight in these temperatures -- and engines run fine. They just get worse gas mileage.

You get some clown driving through Nevada when it’s 105F out, 8000 miles into an OCI, 1 quart down, towing a 2500lb U-Haul at 85mph, using a 10w-40 Grp I that he got from the local supermarket in a plain black jug that said MOTOR OIL 10w-40 on the front
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, and he is just asking for a sludging or oil related problem. With a Grp II, the chances are significantly less of having a problem because they’re so far superior. A Grp II based 10w-40 would be an excellent oil -- but how do you make sure it’s a Grp II when the 10w-40 spec’s can be met using Grp I based oils?
 
Accord, I'd probally buy a nice "dino" 5w-20 rather then use GC in my 2006 Acura. I just happened to have the Mobil 1 0w-30 already. I was going to use it in my woman's 1998 CRV, but she will get the GC at semi-extended ocis, 6 months/8000. The Mobil 1 blends down nicely with some 0w-20 for winter. I can't do that with GC. I'll be accruing miles a lot faster too, the same 8000 miles in 4 months, so I can blow through the M1 and then, who knows? I'll still have some GC left, but I don't really think it ideal for my car.
 
That's how I explained it to my cousin's husband, who has a 2003 Sable. I said the 5w-20 is formulated like a synthetic and he should use it. His mechanic has some in quarts and supposedly uses it in his car. Still the guy changes at 3000 miles!
 
Sxg6 - I never said that 5-20 is a "bad" oil. I just said that one could do better. Is it necessary to do better? In North America where I can change my car every 3-5 years not. But can I do better if I want the car to last 10+ years - probably. I do think 5-20 is a good oil - just not the best I can have.

Union - Acura is a nice car. I really, really, really, (did I mention really) like the new RL. A bit price for me but I love the looks, mechanics of it - everything.
 
So you want to run a thicker oil to get 400k out of the engine... A noble proposition...

But have you ever obtaned 400k from any other vehicle, using thinner or thicker oil? Or is this just a good fiath hope because youve spent a good deal of $$$ on a new Honda (nothing wrong with having these hopes).

As good as Hondas are, they arent older MB diesels... thick or thin, youll likely be hard pressed to get 400k out of it anyway.

IMO, having a stronger grasp on the quality of oil that Joe schmoe will be putting into his car is the greatest value that 5w-20 has for both the automaker and the typical consumer. Whether or not you believe that the chemistry and basestock combo can make up for less viscosity at the bearngs is your issue... It probably can compared to a group I oil, and probably is a wash compared to a group III or IV oil... after all, thats why the newwest dinos are putting out such good results, and a lot of folks are changing back from syn oil.

JMH
 
JHZR2,

I drive about 40k miles per year. That means that after five years of financing my Accord will have 200k miles (fingers crossed tranny will hold). So, I need this car to "give me" at least another 2 years of "no car payments" driving.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Accord2005NJ:
Sxg6 - I never said that 5-20 is a "bad" oil. I just said that one could do better. Is it necessary to do better? In North America where I can change my car every 3-5 years not. But can I do better if I want the car to last 10+ years - probably. I do think 5-20 is a good oil - just not the best I can have.

Forgive me, I've been traveling, and not able to keep up the last few days. I see several problems. First, at least from our UOA, were not seeing any problems with the 5w-20s, the are doing a spectacular job in the engines for which they are intended. Accord guy, respecfully, you framed the issue so as to place the burden on others (the 5w-20 guys) to defend this grade of oil. If you think it's better for the long haul, please show us some data to support your contention. I don't see it in our UOA section (it may well be elsewhere, of course). Also keep in mind that I'm not a partisan -- I use GC because my VQ plainly likes it. I really don't care if its seen as thick or thin. Finally, who are the "5w-20 people"??? Cars are spec-ed for oil, not people. . .
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Hi Ekpolk,

Actually, my initial question was how come that same engines get different oil recommendation in different countries (i.e. Japan). I did not (intentionally at least) place burden on anyone. I do not have scientific data to support my claim (at least not enough of it) but neither does the 20 weighters.

Its just a discussion on an interesting subject thats all.....
 
ekpolk, as you may have gathered, the Judge has declared Accord2005NJ a Hostile Witness. Proceed.
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Seriously, he only deems his facts and inferences as valid. All others presented are ignored, or in Drivebelt's excellent dissertation, acknowledged then ignored. It's clear now that he will continue to yank everyone's chain just for entertainment purposes. What a waste, I thought he was a youngin' tryin' to educate himself.
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Interesting. In the past I wondered the same thing as Accord. I too thought we had a good answer from Drivebelt back on page 4, I even mentioned it. That post confirmed some of my suspicions that in general, US oil is better, at least at the low end. Yet here we are on page 8...

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I agree, the rest of this thread is prolonging the post into useless oblivion for purely entertainment purposes.. Perhaps some who are following are picking up usefull information if they post an acknowledgement or not.
 
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