50 weight oils for Corvette track use

Messages
611
Location
US
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by 2019StingrayZ51
However, it seems the heavier weight would not be good for start-up. My understanding is that the biggest advantage of 0W oils, regardless of climate (Spring Mountain is outside Vegas, so it's not "cold"), is the faster circulation on start-up. Thus, I was looking around for any 5W-50 or 10W-50s that might serve this role when I finally take mine to the track.
15W Not good for startup what have you been reading? 15W is good to about 20*f being conservative.
I can't tell you how many engines I have started in North Dakota with straight 30W in the crankcase when it was far, far, far below -20°F
i would die if the temps were that cold.
It gets cold in the desert at night. OP, those reading, The Mobil 1 15W-50 performs more like a 10W and you would have to read reviews on Amazon etc as to my source but many say they have starter their car at 8 degrees Fahrenheit, -10, no issues.. Mobil 1 15W-50 is one I have considered using even if as a top-up if one of my vehicles ever burned up some oil, I have some oil burners but not known sludgers. You can even still get it at Walmart, either in quarts or sometimes in a jug if they do not buy them all as fast as they go out, enthusiasts know. M1 15W-50 is a good one.
 
Messages
1,410
Location
Western Canada
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Another great one, probably my 1st choice, is the "Ferrari" oil: Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40, which starts with the SN+ qualification, and notably has Ferrari-Maserati's seal of approval, as well as Porsche, VW, Mercedes, & BMW, what CAN'T this oil do on race day? Shell Pennzoil knows their stuff ...
Not sure PP Euro 5w40 has some of that ... it is NOT SN + , and no longer mentions Ferrari approval, gives an EXCEEDS Maserati ... This is a Canadian spec bottle label ... maybe different from US product ? Wouldn't think so, but ... [Linked Image]
 
Last edited:
Messages
611
Location
US
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Another great one, probably my 1st choice, is the "Ferrari" oil: Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40, which starts with the SN+ qualification, and notably has Ferrari-Maserati's seal of approval, as well as Porsche, VW, Mercedes, & BMW, what CAN'T this oil do on race day? Shell Pennzoil knows their stuff ...
Not sure PP Euro 5w40 has some of that ... it is NOT SN + , and no longer mentions Ferrari approval, gives an EXCEEDS Maserati ... This is a Canadian spec bottle label ... maybe different from US product ? Wouldn't think so, but ... [Linked Image] American website says it does. Probably is different as Canada is a whole 'nother country. However, the below PDF on their site is from 2014 so.. https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/prod...o_SAE_5W-40_Full_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.pdf
 
Messages
28,123
Location
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted by CT8
15W Not good for startup what have you been reading? 15W is good to about 20*f being conservative.
Exactly. 15w-XX will be perfectly fine for startup at any track day in which a Vette is likely to participate.
 
Messages
43,676
Location
'Stralia
Originally Posted by talest
OP, those reading, The Mobil 1 15W-50 performs more like a 10W and you would have to read reviews on Amazon etc as to my source but many say they have starter their car at 8 degrees Fahrenheit, -10, no issues..
It can't - if it perfroms like a 10W (MRV and CCS) then it has to be labelled a 10W
 
Messages
4,671
Location
MN
Originally Posted by LeoStrop
Motul and Mobil are also great options.
I tend to like oils that have many, many qualifications, as in what Mobil1 ESP 5w30 or Castrol Edge 0w40 has. That said, Motul does make a compelling case, and they have experience & a good reputation in motorsports (cars, motorcycles) along with street sumps ! People are known to use their "top" 300V line for street use, and it certainly is a high-moly (FM'ed) high-temperature oil: "Ester Core TECHNOLOGY For decades MOTUL has developed high performance synthetic Ester based lubricants. By selecting esters over other high performance synthetic base stocks and combining them with an innovative additive package, MOTUL has created a perfect synergy. This most advanced Ester Core Technology allows maximum power output of the engine without compromising reliability and wear. ADVANTAGES The SAE 5W-40 viscosity enables to compensate medium engine oil dilution by unburned fuel and maintains a stable oil pressure. Maximum oil film resistance at very high temperature: Engine wear is reduced. Friction Modifier: Maximum power output, decrease operating temperature. Low volatility: Oil consumption is reduced. High shear stability: Stable oil pressure whatever using conditions. " -- https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...300V_Power_5W-40__28GB_29.pdf?1492017893 At HTHS 4.1, it's about right for racing a Corvette hard all day in the sun. Mobil1 ESP 0w40 dexos2 oil has HTHS 3.5, so it beats GM's minimum requirements for hard driving styles.
 

2019StingrayZ51

Thread starter
Messages
33
Location
NC
Everyone, thanks so much for all the replies, excellent information! I'm still learning here and I really appreciate everyone who took the time to share information. Keep it coming!!
 
Messages
4,671
Location
MN
Let's face it, a lot of motorsports is emotion & passion, and bragging rights. Show up and tell people you're running the excellent Pennzoil Euro 5w40 <span style="font-style: italic">Ferrari-Maserati</span> oil. It has the tech specs to more than support that engine, and you've got a talking point. ... Just being real. Life isn't always about dry tech subjects, sometimes the spirit of the prancing horse works too. This is hard for me to accept as an engineer myself, but I'm working on it.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Messages
46,520
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by 2019StingrayZ51
My understanding is that the biggest advantage of 0W oils, regardless of climate (Spring Mountain is outside Vegas, so it's not "cold"), is the faster circulation on start-up.
The biggest advantage of the 0w-xx designation is the ability to be appropriate from Yellowknife to Dallas, regardless of the time of year. That in no way means that you are going to benefit from that feature. The difference between a 0w-50 or 15w-50 in terms of initial circulation at startup temperatures which fall within its winter rating are negligible. As long as the oil is pumpable, it will circulate rapidly. The two properties to determine cold temperature performance are CCS and MRV. CCS measures the impact on engine cranking speed, MRV, pumpability. MRV is measured at 5C lower than CCS. So, this breaks down as follows: Winter/CCS/MRV - 0W -35C/-40C - 5W -30C/-35C - 10W -25C/-30C - 15W -20C/-25C - 20W -15C/-20C So, the 15w-xx lubricant is appropriate for ambient conditions at -20C and above (-4F). If you expect to be operating the car in temperatures below that, then looking at something with a better winter rating would be advisable. Historically, GM recommended M1 5w-30 for "daily" use and the 15w-50 for track. One of the advantages, and likely reasons, for the introduction of the ESP product was the ability to do away with the dual recommendation and be able to spec a single product that covered both bases. This is quite common and why most high performance vehicles either spec or have an appropriate 0w-40 available for them.
 
Messages
1,410
Location
Western Canada
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Historically, GM recommended M1 5w-30 for "daily" use and the 15w-50 for track. One of the advantages, and likely reasons, for the introduction of the ESP product was the ability to do away with the dual recommendation and be able to spec a single product that covered both bases. This is quite common and why most high performance vehicles either spec or have an appropriate 0w-40 available for them.
Sounds a bit like winter / summer tire vs an all weather tire ... Are there any real disadvantages to running the 0w40 in HOT summer temps ? Yes, the 15w50 may not be the right oil in extreme cold temps, but how about the 0w40 in extreme hot temps ( racetrack ) ?
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Messages
46,520
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Historically, GM recommended M1 5w-30 for "daily" use and the 15w-50 for track. One of the advantages, and likely reasons, for the introduction of the ESP product was the ability to do away with the dual recommendation and be able to spec a single product that covered both bases. This is quite common and why most high performance vehicles either spec or have an appropriate 0w-40 available for them.
Sounds a bit like winter / summer tire vs an all weather tire ... Are there any real disadvantages to running the 0w40 in HOT summer temps ? Yes, the 15w50 may not be the right oil in extreme cold temps, but how about the 0w40 in extreme hot temps ( racetrack ) ?
Given its prevalence in various racing venues, including 24hr ones, I'd expect a condition it is unsuitable for being relatively rare.
 
Messages
4,671
Location
MN
The only issue with a good 0w40 in summer racing is the heavy VII treat rate. I'd rather not have that much unnecessary VII due to their tendency to form more piston deposits. All those 0w40's do pass specs for deposit control, which is good, yet one would assume less VIIs are better. You can't go too wrong. Summer = 5w40 or 10w40 for me though. Page 20 shows some example differences between full-syn SAE grades: https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/~/media/chemicals/kl-media-assets/2017/11/02/15/00/synthetic_lubricant_base_stocks_formulations_guide_en_2017pdf.pdf
 
Messages
10,932
Location
Jupiter, Florida
The use of TEL (lead) in fuels (as an anti knock agent) was discovered by a long process of trial and error. Tens of thousands of compounds were tried to reduce engine knock. We still don't fully understand why it's so effective. In much the same way, race car teams have worked through the various oil issues via a very long process. Professional teams don't give any credence to bragging rights. They've long since worked through the details of what works and why. As I've mentioned above, poor oil temperature control (think street cars pressed into track duty) have a particular set of needs. Those needs may include the ability to lubricate and maintain oil pressure at temperatures never seen on the street. Choosing a 0w-40 with a high HTHS may work just fine. Or it may not, as many high performance 4 stroke motorcycle racers have discovered. Even though the specs are great, the reality is that some oils don't hold up under extreme conditions. Especially when VII's are involved.
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
22,018
Location
Guelph, Ontario
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
The only issue with a good 0w40 in summer racing is the heavy VII treat rate. I'd rather not have that much unnecessary VII due to their tendency to form more piston deposits. All those 0w40's do pass specs for deposit control, which is good, yet one would assume less VIIs are better.
That's one of the big reasons why I like the 5w30 version of ESP Formula over the 0w40 version. It has less VII, while at the same time has a higher HTHS (3.58 vs 3.53) Even the newest version (simply called 5w30 ESP) still has a 3.5 HTHS. IMO, an oil in the area of 3.5 to 3.6 HTHS is a perfect daily use oil for the LT1 Corvette, and can handle the occasional track day too (as long as the oil temps don't get elevated for extended periods of time)
 
Messages
9,614
Location
Pennsylbammyvania
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
The only issue with a good 0w40 in summer racing is the heavy VII treat rate. I'd rather not have that much unnecessary VII due to their tendency to form more piston deposits. All those 0w40's do pass specs for deposit control, which is good, yet one would assume less VIIs are better. You can't go too wrong. Summer = 5w40 or 10w40 for me though. Page 20 shows some example differences between full-syn SAE grades: https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/~/media/chemicals/kl-media-assets/2017/11/02/15/00/synthetic_lubricant_base_stocks_formulations_guide_en_2017pdf.pdf
Isn't this at least part of the rationale for using enough PAO/POE in the oil's base stock (as long as it does not have a sky-high VI number), i.e.; then much less VII (of ANY type, even the 'best/most stable' versions of VII) needs to be added in order to achieve a given viscosity range performance??
 
Messages
1,432
Location
Vancouver
The regular Mobil they spec will be fine for oil temps up to about 240-250. More than that I'd probably go into a 5w40 racing oil like several mentioned thus far which will bump HTHS up to about 4 from 3.5
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,671
Location
MN
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
The regular Mobil they spec will be fine for oil temps up to about 240-250. More than that I'd probably go into a 5w40 racing oil like several mentioned thus far which will bump HTHS up to about 4 from 3.5
Agreed, except M1 dexos1 5w30 is at a "low" 3.1. Its high enough for a lot of driving sytles though. Corvettes: 1. Boulevard cruiser, commuter usage: M1 0w30, M1 5w30 or M1 10w30 HTHS ~3.0 2. Occasional track usage, sustained high speeds under 5 minutes: M1 ESP 5w30 or ESP 0w40, HTHS ~3.5 3. Racing, sustained high speeds over 10 minutes, like a day at Willow Springs in July: M1 5w50, M1 15w50, or Ravenol RUP 5w40, HTHS 3.9 to 4.5 is plenty. A similar set of rules can be set up for those BMWs that use LL-01FE HTHS ~3.0 oil for everyday (rule 1) use. Basically any engine whose Owner's Manual says HTHS about 3.0 is fine can use these rules. Cold climates, winter starts, may want to bias toward using 0w30 and 0w40, when below 0F.
 
Last edited:
Top