50 weight oils for Corvette track use

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Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
The regular Mobil they spec will be fine for oil temps up to about 240-250. More than that I'd probably go into a 5w40 racing oil like several mentioned thus far which will bump HTHS up to about 4 from 3.5
Agreed, except M1 dexos1 5w30 is at a "low" 3.1. Its high enough for a lot of driving sytles though. Corvettes: 1. Boulevard cruiser, commuter usage: M1 0w30, M1 5w30 or M1 10w30 HTHS ~3.0 2. Occasional track usage, sustained high speeds under 5 minutes: M1 ESP 5w30 or ESP 0w40, HTHS ~3.5 3. Racing, sustained high speeds over 10 minutes, like a day at Willow Springs in July: M1 5w50, M1 15w50, or Ravenol RUP 5w40, HTHS 3.9 to 4.5 is plenty. A similar set of rules can be set up for those BMWs that use LL-01FE HTHS ~3.0 oil for everyday (rule 1) use. Basically any engine whose Owner's Manual says HTHS about 3.0 is fine can use these rules. Cold climates, winter starts, may want to bias toward using 0w30 and 0w40, when below 0F.
Ok yeah, I was thinking of the Euro FS version. I'd probably still be ok with it myself but I wouldn't use it more than a track day. The higher HTHS stuff i'd probably be comfortable using two or three times.
 
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Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Are there any real disadvantages to running the 0w40 in HOT summer temps ? Yes, the 15w50 may not be the right oil in extreme cold temps, but how about the 0w40 in extreme hot temps ( racetrack ) ?
Given its prevalence in various racing venues, including 24hr ones, I'd expect a condition it is unsuitable for being relatively rare.
https://www.shell.us/about-us/features-and-highlights/helio-takes-checkered-flag-in-detroit.html Helio uses the PUP 0w40 (SRT) oil off-the-shelf stuff per rules. M1 0w40 has been used in Indy-cars too. Many wonder why use a "0w" cold-weather oil instead of a 10w40 (no VII) full-syn in those cars? My theory is that they actually WANT those oils to get permanent shear as the race progresses through 500 miles (Indy500 example), as it liberates more hp as the oil thins a bit. Early in the race, durability is big, so you want higher-HTHS oil, then later in the race, all-out dash speed is important to keep the lead, so thinner oil (still thicker than qualifying oil) is best. Amateur racers are mostly concerned about durability all the time, start to finish, to the drive home. They don't want much permanent shear.
 
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Fella's, Here's something I came across in relation to Motul oils and VW motors. So whilst not directly on point it shows the relationship between the intended use and the recommended HTHS/weighting - which is really only been backing up with whats already been said here. Here's what you are looking for to suit 2.0T or 2.5T VAG: Daily driven Stage 1 or 2 (< 300kw) - An xW30 or xW40 with 3.5 or more is ideal Track days Stage 1 or 2 (< 300kw) - Minimum xW40 with 3.5 or more Race only or any Stage 3 (> 300kw) engine - Minimum xW40 with 3.9 or more Some of the products we have with VW Approvals for modified engines under warranty are: 8100 X-clean+ 5W30 VW Approval 504/507 - HTHS 3.6 8100 X-max 0W40 VW Approval 502/505 - HTHS 3.6 8100 X-cess 5W40 VW Approval 502/505 - HTHS 3.7 *Purchase online here* For track, race cars and Stage 3 engines: Sport 5W40 - HTHS 4.0 (not recommend for use in EA113 2.0FSI with upgraded HPFP, recommended for use with Racingline MQB EA888.3 Stage 3 kits) *Purchase online here* Sport 5W50 - HTHS 4.5 (not recommend for use in EA113 2.0FSI with upgraded HPFP) 300V Trophy 0W40 - HTHS 3.9 300V Power 5W40 - HTHS 4.1 *Purchase online here* 300V Chrono 10W40 - HTHS 4.2 300V Competition 15W50 - HTHS 5.3 300V Le Mans 20W60 - HTHS 6.3
 
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For track use, consider Redline 10W-40. HTHS of 4.4 is probably about on par with M1 15W-50. It's a true "racing oil", although it ain't cheap.
 
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Not sure about the Vetts manual, but my Camaro with the same engine says you have to switch back to 40/30WT oil after the track day with the 50wt does yours say that? Many of Camaro and Vette owners have tracked with 40WT oil that is Dexos 2 and UOAs are great and thats multiple trackdays on a single oil change and you can keep it in the sump year round.
 

Patman

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Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Not sure about the Vetts manual, but my Camaro with the same engine says you have to switch back to 40/30WT oil after the track day with the 50wt does yours say that?
It doesn't exactly say to switch it back, but it's implied.

15w50.jpg
 

2019StingrayZ51

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Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Not sure about the Vetts manual, but my Camaro with the same engine says you have to switch back to 40/30WT oil after the track day with the 50wt does yours say that? Many of Camaro and Vette owners have tracked with 40WT oil that is Dexos 2 and UOAs are great and thats multiple trackdays on a single oil change and you can keep it in the sump year round.
From 2019 owners manual: The engine is factory filled with 0W-40 dexos2 oil. For LT1 and LT4 engines only, 0W-40 dexos2 engine oil is approved for both track and street use. 15W-50 full synthetic engine oil may also be used for track use, but after track use must be changed back to 0W-40 dexos2 for street use. If 0W-40 dexos2 oil is not available, 5W-30 dexos1 full synthetic engine oil may be used for street use. If 5W-30 dexos1 is used, it must be changed to 0W-40 dexos2 or 15W-50 full synthetic engine oil for track use. For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50 full synthetic engine oil must be used for track use, but after track use must be changed back to 0W-40 dexos2 for street use. Z51 Performance Package, Grand Sport, Z06, and ZR1: Check the oil level often during track events and competitive driving and keep the level at or near 0.5 L (0.5 qt) above the upper mark that shows the proper operating range on the engine oil dipstick. After the competitive driving, remove excess oil so that the level on the dipstick is not above the upper mark that shows the proper operating range.
 
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GM saying to use 15w50 HTHS 4.5 oil for track events must mean they expect a lot of over-heating ! Ravenol RUP 5w40 all-PAO/Ester oil HTHS 3.9 (or similar Redline or Motul) already beats M1 ESP 0w40 by +0.4 HTHS, so it should work for most anything you can throw at it. Yet I guess they aren't allowed to go outside the Mobil1 realm due to business agreements.
 
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Next time go go out on the track, record your maximum oil temperature. That's the best way of gaging whether or not you need a 50 W oil. Also how much is spent at 6000 + rpm. There are a lot of pretenders out there. laugh
 

2019StingrayZ51

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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Next time go go out on the track, record your maximum oil temperature. That's the best way of gaging whether or not you need a 50 W oil. Also how much is spent at 6000 + rpm. There are a lot of pretenders out there. laugh
Good point. When I went to the school at Spring Mountain, I only saw about 235-40 oil temp, BUT they did ask us to shift at 5,000 rpm...I might have pushed to 6 a few times, but was definitely not abusing the car, and I won't be abusing my own for sure....
 
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Perhaps someone can do the calcs and see what a 40 wt oil thins down to at 240 F. It probably goes from something like 14 Cst down to something like 11 Cst or less. Then do the same thing for a 50 wt oil. (I'm supposed to be working right now). laugh
 
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2019StingrayZ51

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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Perhaps someone can do the calcs and see what a 40 wt oil thins down to at 240 F. It probably goes from something like 14 Cst down to something like 11 Cst or less. Then do the same thing for a 50 wt oil. (I'm supposed to be working right now). laugh
That's a great idea! I'm supposed to be working too . . . and I'm not an engineer, so I sure don't know how to do this calculation grin2
 

Patman

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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Perhaps someone can do the calcs and see what a 40 wt oil thins down to at 240 F. It probably goes from something like 14 Cst down to something like 11 Cst or less. Then do the same thing for a 50 wt oil. (I'm supposed to be working right now). laugh
A quick way is to look at the HTHS, as that's the viscosity of the oil at 150C (302F) I know it's not 240F but it'll still give you a good idea of how that oil will perform at extremes. Some Corvette guys have reported seeing their oil temps in the 290s at the track, and almost touching 300.
 

2019StingrayZ51

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Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Perhaps someone can do the calcs and see what a 40 wt oil thins down to at 240 F. It probably goes from something like 14 Cst down to something like 11 Cst or less. Then do the same thing for a 50 wt oil. (I'm supposed to be working right now). laugh
A quick way is to look at the HTHS, as that's the viscosity of the oil at 150C (302F) I know it's not 240F but it'll still give you a good idea of how that oil will perform at extremes. Some Corvette guys have reported seeing their oil temps in the 290s at the track, and almost touching 300.
Thanks Patman! Wow, 290s!!!
 
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When I was messing with my L67 Caprice, I would drive on the highway in "D" at around 1,800 RPM< stop the engine and pull over...race out and drop a type K thermocouple down the dipstick hole. That's the temperature of the oil draining back from the rotating assembly. It was routinely 95-100C - 212F Running the same piece of road in "2" at 4,000 RPM, the same load, but just more revs, I saw 139C - 280F. That's very little load, but more RPM...oil temperature is more dependent on RPM than on load, by a long margin. And that was the drainback oil, so also contained mains and valley flow...the big ends were definitely warmer than that. That's why HTHS is at 150C
 

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Originally Posted by 2019StingrayZ51
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Perhaps someone can do the calcs and see what a 40 wt oil thins down to at 240 F. It probably goes from something like 14 Cst down to something like 11 Cst or less. Then do the same thing for a 50 wt oil. (I'm supposed to be working right now). laugh
A quick way is to look at the HTHS, as that's the viscosity of the oil at 150C (302F) I know it's not 240F but it'll still give you a good idea of how that oil will perform at extremes. Some Corvette guys have reported seeing their oil temps in the 290s at the track, and almost touching 300.
Thanks Patman! Wow, 290s!!!
That means the oil temp in journal bearings and in other hot spots like the ring pack is even higher than the 290 F sump temperature. As others have said, I'd be going for the highest HTHS in the recommended by GM track viscosity.
 

2019StingrayZ51

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Originally Posted by thescreensavers
I've hit 285F oil temps consistently in the Camaro at the track. So it's not uncommon to be that high.
What oil are you running at the track?
 

CT8

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Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Let's face it, a lot of motorsports is emotion & passion, and bragging rights. Show up and tell people you're running the excellent Pennzoil Euro 5w40 Ferrari-Maserati oil. It has the tech specs to more than support that engine, and you've got a talking point. ... Just being real. Life isn't always about dry tech subjects, sometimes the spirit of the prancing horse works too. This is hard for me to accept as an engineer myself, but I'm working on it.
I would rather have a Vette that a Ferrari or a Maserati. Even though my Italian blood boils.
 
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