4L60E in modified Caprice

DJ

Messages
749
Location
New London WI
Oddball fluid blend of Mobil dino ATF and a Caterpillar hydraulic oil. I know it sounds odd but the guy I paid almost $2K to to build it sent me the fluid and was giving me a good warranty. 25K on it since the rebuild and that was in 11months. I drag race and tow(light) with it on top of daily driving duties and the occasional road trip. I have a Permacool external filter, and a 2800 stall Edge Racing Converter as other notables. I drive it hard as you might guess. first column this test second universal averages aluminum 5 10 chromium 0 0 iron 58 150 copper 172 120 lead 24 90 tin 2 5 moly 0 0 nickle 0 1 manganese 0 2 silver 0 0 titanium 0 0 potasium 0 0 boron 47 71 silicon 5 30 sodium 9 12 calcium 1057 118 magnesium 2 12 phosphorus 541 271 zinc 350 95 barium 1 2 viscosity at 210F was 46.2 insolubles .1 TAN .2 Terry is going to look at this and I am looking at maybe going with one of Mola's fluids unless by some chance Terry tells me this is some wonder brew and the greatest thing to ever happen to my tranny. I will leave any comments either of them cares to share up to them to share. Looking at it myself I would say wear metals look fairly low exept the copper and the hydraulic oil is showing up with the odd aditive levels. I am hoping Terry says this is good numbers considering my usage but I justy got this report moments ago so no word from him yet.
 

DJ

Thread starter
Messages
749
Location
New London WI
I also want to give Blackstone a good word since I just mailed this late friday, I did not expect this that fast. [Cool]
 
Messages
2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
As a contrast, here is my post AutoRx analysis of my stock 4L60E 1996 Chevrolet Impala SS Total miles 81072 miles on oil 32678 Pennzoil Dexron III ATF with LubeGard Red for 30k and Auto-Rx for 1300 Schaeffer's Analysis
code:
  

1996 Chevrolet Impala SS Total miles 81072
miles on oil 32678

Pennzoil Dexron III ATF with LubeGard Red for 30k and Auto-Rx for 1300

Schaeffer's Analysis


 [CODE]
Aluminum      9
Chromium      0
Iron        149 High
Copper       73 
Lead         96 High
Moly          1
Phosphorus  372
Zinc         31
Magneseum     6
Calcium     105
AntiFreeze   .0
Fuel Dilut    N
H20          .0
Silicon      34 High
Vis Cst    4.90 (Starts at 7.23)
SAE ISO     10W
Sulphur      0% 
Oxidation    3%
Nitration    0%

 

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001330
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,908
Location
Iowegia - USA
Responding to DJ: What was the orignal fluids VOA?
quote:
calcium 1057
The calcium and copper levels are way too high. The calcium will cause plate glazing and oxidation if its levels are too high. The copper levels should be about the same levels as the lead or lower. This tells me two things: the fluid does not have enough metal deactivator additive and the anti-wear additive is weak for a racing fluid.
quote:
viscosity at 210F was 46.2 insolubles .1 TAN .2
The kinematic viscosity at 100 C should have been about 6.8. If the kinematic viscosity was indeed 46.2, your valves and pistons would move so slow that you would miss shifts and overheat. The kinematic viscosity for a good racing fluid of type "F" should be about 9.0 cSt to 11.5 cSt. Out Type "F" is 9.0 cSt. [ May 04, 2005, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 

DJ

Thread starter
Messages
749
Location
New London WI
Quote from the tranny builder that supplied the CAT fluid.
quote:
The part number is 8T-9572 30 weight. At 210F it is apx. an 11 weight fluid and will stay there till about 375F. In almost all cases it will keep the operating temperature cooler, by about 10-25 degrees.
Then I guess they changed suppliers
quote:
Just to add a bit more info...I took the number to a Cat dealer/dist. and that number was converted to a Mobil number. 98821A is for the 5Gal bucket = 8T-9572
There was 3.5 quarts of that and 8 or so quarts of Mobil dino Dexron III/ Mercon Multipurpose. The capacity looks odd due to the small diameter converter conbine with a slightly deeper than stock pan and the external filter and cooler. Thewre was no VOA of this fluid as Vader was just then getting me interested in coming over here and reading. The CAT fluid was thick when cold like thick enough that when I put the tranny in it was single digits outside so I had to bring the fluid in and warm it, guess it did not thicken the hot viscosity too much though. I also forgot to add in my initial post that at 10-15K into this tranny and fluids 25K life sofar that I added a TruCool plate cooler it is aplate style and fairly small, it is in series with the in radiator cooler and the external filter. I sort of wonder if it is part of the copper numbers. This blend has worked well sofar guys but I am pretty well decided to try one of Mola's creations in her next. At 25K on the fluid it is time to change it anyway. The power level is slated to begin increasing again so I need all the protection I can find. Only about 320hp or so flywheel right now through stock exhaust manifolds, but with headers and other parts on the way she should be nearer 400hp by mid summer.
 
Messages
2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
We are already pushing this transmission harder than the designers expected. In fact, just "the usual mods" can put them over their design torque limit. It's no wonder we have the fluid, and consequently the transmission, fail, even while following recommended severe service intervals. I just ordered Molakule's ATF and gear oil. I look forward to getting them in the car. I was suprised to see I've only driven 8k since I did the last interval. Doesn't matter, time to get some "good stuff" in it. I'm definitely doing a UOA on what's in it now, Pennzoil with 3oz of AutoRx since it went in.
 

DJ

Thread starter
Messages
749
Location
New London WI
When I dynoed we came in past peak torque as it was already falling at 4100rpms and that was still around the 350ft. lbs. limit. I do not know what peak was but particularly with the upcomming longtube headers I will be way past that. Mola has commented that his gear lube would work well with even the clutch posis so I am looking at that as well.
 

DJ

Thread starter
Messages
749
Location
New London WI
Embarrassing as it is to admit I do not have Mola's ATF in yet but did a feed and bleed with cheap stuff with some LC in hopes of flushing out some of the "bad" additives. After a thousand miles or so(not daily car) the shift feel is improving suggesting Mola and Terry were dead on about the calcium glazing the plates. I thought of this because tomorrow I do a pan drop filter change and put in the Mola blended fluid.
 
Messages
3,845
DJ, appreciate the feedback and response. You are correct, many folks that either Mola or myself help don't give us much feedback unless I see a improved oil analysis or teardown analysis that was pristine. For racers I understand wanting an edge but this is welcome input. Terry
 
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