Arnold ought to be ashamed of himself for this indulgence. No excuse for it, none.
$4-a-gallon gas forecast in some areas
- Thread starter mikered30
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I would not be surprised to see gas at $4 a gallon here this summer. The cheapest places have 87 for $3.18 a gallon. At some places it is $3.20.
People will complain about $4 a gallon gas, but I'm sure everyone will keep buying just as much as they did before. Gas will need to be significantly more expensive than the alternatives before anything will change.
People will complain about $4 a gallon gas, but I'm sure everyone will keep buying just as much as they did before. Gas will need to be significantly more expensive than the alternatives before anything will change.
I personally think we need to take a deep breath and make informed decisions based on the fact that once prices of oil goes high, the relative probability of it come doing to levels in the 90s is just not practical.
Driving habits have to changes, we need to get more disciplined by writing down everything that needs to be done before getting into the vehicle, keep the vehicles in good working condition etc.
We see too much wealth creation with OPEC over a very short period of time and that is good for OPEC and once you taste good fortunes ones expectations keeps rising and to feed that hunger OPEC will invariabily keep oil at astronomical prices.
If we don't change and conserve oil, change will be forced down our throats by lower levels of saving and per capita incomes. Period.
Driving habits have to changes, we need to get more disciplined by writing down everything that needs to be done before getting into the vehicle, keep the vehicles in good working condition etc.
We see too much wealth creation with OPEC over a very short period of time and that is good for OPEC and once you taste good fortunes ones expectations keeps rising and to feed that hunger OPEC will invariabily keep oil at astronomical prices.
If we don't change and conserve oil, change will be forced down our throats by lower levels of saving and per capita incomes. Period.
It appears that many of you are self righteous individuals that think that if we don't drive small vehicles or ride bikes then we get what we deserve from high fuel costs. Well I got news for you. You're going to pay a lot more for EVERTHING you buy because of these high fuel costs. What about the small business man who needs his truck to provide you with the products and services you need everyday? Or the trucker that delivers your food and FUEL?
Think about the total picture of what's happening. We have more than enough oil supplies, in one form or another, in North America, but because of "greenies" we are unable to use them. So we are forced to rely foreign sources. While "alternative" energy sources are ok for limited applications they are not feasible for providing power to the general public.
Oxygenated gas is a perfect example of a government program went awry. It was intended for engines with carburetors for cold start up and cold running emmissions. Fuel injected engines correct for cold start up and running emmissions. Well gee, we've had computer controlled engines since 1985 but still have oxygentated fuel, even worse since it's now etnanol. My mpg on real gas was 21 mpg. With MTBE it was 16 mpg. With ethanol my mpg is 13 mpg. So you can see that the government is sticking it to us. The ironic thing is that ethanol gas produces higher pollution. This is a typical government boondagle where we the tax payer get short changed by our government.
imsosorry
Think about the total picture of what's happening. We have more than enough oil supplies, in one form or another, in North America, but because of "greenies" we are unable to use them. So we are forced to rely foreign sources. While "alternative" energy sources are ok for limited applications they are not feasible for providing power to the general public.
Oxygenated gas is a perfect example of a government program went awry. It was intended for engines with carburetors for cold start up and cold running emmissions. Fuel injected engines correct for cold start up and running emmissions. Well gee, we've had computer controlled engines since 1985 but still have oxygentated fuel, even worse since it's now etnanol. My mpg on real gas was 21 mpg. With MTBE it was 16 mpg. With ethanol my mpg is 13 mpg. So you can see that the government is sticking it to us. The ironic thing is that ethanol gas produces higher pollution. This is a typical government boondagle where we the tax payer get short changed by our government.
imsosorry
Whimsey, appearances can be deceiving. I'm certainly not a self-righteous person, I enjoy riding my bike or motorcycle whenever I can...nothing to do with trying to keep costs down related to fuel, actually. And, I do realize that fuel costs impact almost every facet of our economy. However, I lived through the times of rationing in the 70's, and today's problems with fuel prices were easy to predict, given the short memory of the consumer.
Depending upon your definition, we might have "more than enough" oil in the ground, and it's the "greenies" fault that we can't get at it. That is not a new twist in the problem, we've known this for decades. OPEC and other oil-producing nations depend upon the sale of oil for them to be "richer". Not a new twist. Supply line disruptions due to various factors...such as Katrina, or maintenance....again, not new. Hurricanes have been hitting the Gulf for thousands of years...should we be surprised when one interrupts the refinery production?
It gets down to choices. We CHOOSE, as individuals, and as a nation, NOT TO CONSERVE. We WASTE the oil we get. We COMPLAIN if it isn't "cheap enough". We BLAME the government, the greenies, OPEC, Big Oil, etc., in short, we do anything other than plan ahead. IF we would change our habits, prepare for the things that have been happening for the last 50 years and quit being like the knuckleheads on the Dodge commercials and drooling over anything that has a "Hemi-" engine (SWEEEET!) and actually PAY ATTENTION and make more informed choices....we wouldn't be in this particular pickle.
Oh, but we wait until gas jumps to 4.00 per gallon...THEN we react.
Reaction is not a good substitute for Planning Ahead. That statement is self-evident...to some, it was evident sooner than to others...but, I've already lived through stag-flation with fuel costs as a big player, so, it is NOT surprising me.
Guess what? Once we get through this particular crunch: which will happen when several things line up (decreased demand, alternative fuel sources that are economically viable, when the dollar gets stronger once the fed raises interest rates off the floor (the mortgage debacle is VERY similar to the lack of planning ahead of individuals as well as lending institutions), when oil producers get greedy enough that these high prices get them to pump more, when the speculators that are clamoring for this commodity turn to another area in which to ply their trade of leveraging Greed against Fear, prices will drop. I'll be willing to be a barrel of Light Sweet Crude that we STILL will not have learned this Lesson, and most of the steps we took to get through this rough patch will be forgotten. Or even worse: remembered but ignored.
And the cycle will occur yet again in the future.
We all have a choice though. You will either choose to prepare better for the next time, or, you will be stuck reacting, like the majority of the people are doing now. No self-righteousness in these statements...just observations of the masses...and disappointment that the cycle will happen once again.
Depending upon your definition, we might have "more than enough" oil in the ground, and it's the "greenies" fault that we can't get at it. That is not a new twist in the problem, we've known this for decades. OPEC and other oil-producing nations depend upon the sale of oil for them to be "richer". Not a new twist. Supply line disruptions due to various factors...such as Katrina, or maintenance....again, not new. Hurricanes have been hitting the Gulf for thousands of years...should we be surprised when one interrupts the refinery production?
It gets down to choices. We CHOOSE, as individuals, and as a nation, NOT TO CONSERVE. We WASTE the oil we get. We COMPLAIN if it isn't "cheap enough". We BLAME the government, the greenies, OPEC, Big Oil, etc., in short, we do anything other than plan ahead. IF we would change our habits, prepare for the things that have been happening for the last 50 years and quit being like the knuckleheads on the Dodge commercials and drooling over anything that has a "Hemi-" engine (SWEEEET!) and actually PAY ATTENTION and make more informed choices....we wouldn't be in this particular pickle.
Oh, but we wait until gas jumps to 4.00 per gallon...THEN we react.
Reaction is not a good substitute for Planning Ahead. That statement is self-evident...to some, it was evident sooner than to others...but, I've already lived through stag-flation with fuel costs as a big player, so, it is NOT surprising me.
Guess what? Once we get through this particular crunch: which will happen when several things line up (decreased demand, alternative fuel sources that are economically viable, when the dollar gets stronger once the fed raises interest rates off the floor (the mortgage debacle is VERY similar to the lack of planning ahead of individuals as well as lending institutions), when oil producers get greedy enough that these high prices get them to pump more, when the speculators that are clamoring for this commodity turn to another area in which to ply their trade of leveraging Greed against Fear, prices will drop. I'll be willing to be a barrel of Light Sweet Crude that we STILL will not have learned this Lesson, and most of the steps we took to get through this rough patch will be forgotten. Or even worse: remembered but ignored.
And the cycle will occur yet again in the future.
We all have a choice though. You will either choose to prepare better for the next time, or, you will be stuck reacting, like the majority of the people are doing now. No self-righteousness in these statements...just observations of the masses...and disappointment that the cycle will happen once again.
Kestas
Staff member
Let me throw this in for discussion:
I say lets burn up all the gas as fast as we can. This would put everybody in the world on the same page with regards to energy and rid the world of geo-political angst over oil. Why should we put our children and grandchildren through the pains of conservation?
Until we run out, make sure to buy stock in oil companies so you can get a piece of their action.
I say lets burn up all the gas as fast as we can. This would put everybody in the world on the same page with regards to energy and rid the world of geo-political angst over oil. Why should we put our children and grandchildren through the pains of conservation?
Until we run out, make sure to buy stock in oil companies so you can get a piece of their action.
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: Titan
.. Still, at 5.00 per gallon, compared to 2.50 per gallon; if you get 25 mpg average and drive 15,000 miles per year, that's only 1500.00 more for fuel per year...125.00 more per month, or about 4.00 per day. If you don't have 4.00 extra per day to spend on fuel, you're living above your means...ah, but, this is "America...land of the free-spending and hardly saving anything"..
Agreed. The $1500/year more for gasoline wouldn't effect your average BITOG member, but all the other associated cost increases will. You know the drill. Fuel cost goes up, everyone's 'costs' go up, everything under the sun now costs us more. That $1500/year is now X 10.
Joel
.. Still, at 5.00 per gallon, compared to 2.50 per gallon; if you get 25 mpg average and drive 15,000 miles per year, that's only 1500.00 more for fuel per year...125.00 more per month, or about 4.00 per day. If you don't have 4.00 extra per day to spend on fuel, you're living above your means...ah, but, this is "America...land of the free-spending and hardly saving anything"..
Agreed. The $1500/year more for gasoline wouldn't effect your average BITOG member, but all the other associated cost increases will. You know the drill. Fuel cost goes up, everyone's 'costs' go up, everything under the sun now costs us more. That $1500/year is now X 10.
Joel
Joel,
it is additive, but, it's not logrithmic, it's only additive to the point that fuel costs make up a percentage of the cost of the final product.
it is additive, but, it's not logrithmic, it's only additive to the point that fuel costs make up a percentage of the cost of the final product.
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
It appears that many of you are self righteous individuals that think that if we don't drive small vehicles or ride bikes then we get what we deserve from high fuel costs. Well I got news for you. You're going to pay a lot more for EVERTHING you buy because of these high fuel costs. What about the small business man who needs his truck to provide you with the products and services you need everyday? Or the trucker that delivers your food and FUEL?
You just made even stronger argument for using less fuel in vehicles. As you point out there are more important needs (ambulance, fire truck, delivery trucks)
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Think about the total picture of what's happening. We have more than enough oil supplies, in one form or another, in North America, but because of "greenies" we are unable to use them. So we are forced to rely foreign sources. While "alternative" energy sources are ok for limited applications they are not feasible for providing power to the general public.
Oxygenated gas is a perfect example of a government program went awry. It was intended for engines with carburetors for cold start up and cold running emmissions. Fuel injected engines correct for cold start up and running emmissions. Well gee, we've had computer controlled engines since 1985 but still have oxygentated fuel, even worse since it's now etnanol. My mpg on real gas was 21 mpg. With MTBE it was 16 mpg. With ethanol my mpg is 13 mpg. So you can see that the government is sticking it to us. The ironic thing is that ethanol gas produces higher pollution. This is a typical government boondagle where we the tax payer get short changed by our government.
imsosorry
So what you are saying is that Bush & Co. are "greenies" who fight hard against drilling in Alaska and other places in US. In fact, instead of pumping "more than enough oil supplies" from US they decided instead to spend several trillion$ to go to Iraq and pump their oil. All eploration companies and all exploration rigs are looking for oil everywhere except US because of those scary powerful "greenies" keeping them out. Ahhhh, now I see the *TRUTH* It all makes sense now; how dumb of me not to see this clearly before. Thanks.
P.S.: Try to comprehend what Titan said. It can only do you some good.
It appears that many of you are self righteous individuals that think that if we don't drive small vehicles or ride bikes then we get what we deserve from high fuel costs. Well I got news for you. You're going to pay a lot more for EVERTHING you buy because of these high fuel costs. What about the small business man who needs his truck to provide you with the products and services you need everyday? Or the trucker that delivers your food and FUEL?
You just made even stronger argument for using less fuel in vehicles. As you point out there are more important needs (ambulance, fire truck, delivery trucks)
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Think about the total picture of what's happening. We have more than enough oil supplies, in one form or another, in North America, but because of "greenies" we are unable to use them. So we are forced to rely foreign sources. While "alternative" energy sources are ok for limited applications they are not feasible for providing power to the general public.
Oxygenated gas is a perfect example of a government program went awry. It was intended for engines with carburetors for cold start up and cold running emmissions. Fuel injected engines correct for cold start up and running emmissions. Well gee, we've had computer controlled engines since 1985 but still have oxygentated fuel, even worse since it's now etnanol. My mpg on real gas was 21 mpg. With MTBE it was 16 mpg. With ethanol my mpg is 13 mpg. So you can see that the government is sticking it to us. The ironic thing is that ethanol gas produces higher pollution. This is a typical government boondagle where we the tax payer get short changed by our government.
imsosorry
So what you are saying is that Bush & Co. are "greenies" who fight hard against drilling in Alaska and other places in US. In fact, instead of pumping "more than enough oil supplies" from US they decided instead to spend several trillion$ to go to Iraq and pump their oil. All eploration companies and all exploration rigs are looking for oil everywhere except US because of those scary powerful "greenies" keeping them out. Ahhhh, now I see the *TRUTH* It all makes sense now; how dumb of me not to see this clearly before. Thanks.
P.S.: Try to comprehend what Titan said. It can only do you some good.
Titan,
It is different this time in that new oil is much harder/more expensive to get, while old cheaper fields are declining. Therefore by the time this recession/depression cycles is over there will be even less supply. In effect there will be a sort of race between declining demand (due to weak economy) and a declining supply.
The current speculation nonsense is just a catalyst, a short term bump. The long term process is set, which is move from ICE to something new. People get caught up in labels so you can simply called it non-ICE based world, whatever that ends up being.
From biofuels to oil sands and deep sea oil, everywhere costs for new oil production are going much higher. After the initial development surge, now oil sands are out of power and are looking to nukes. Biofuels are causing widespread food inflation. etc.
The inevtiable outcome it that gasoline becomes a luxury fuel for the rich.
It is different this time in that new oil is much harder/more expensive to get, while old cheaper fields are declining. Therefore by the time this recession/depression cycles is over there will be even less supply. In effect there will be a sort of race between declining demand (due to weak economy) and a declining supply.
The current speculation nonsense is just a catalyst, a short term bump. The long term process is set, which is move from ICE to something new. People get caught up in labels so you can simply called it non-ICE based world, whatever that ends up being.
From biofuels to oil sands and deep sea oil, everywhere costs for new oil production are going much higher. After the initial development surge, now oil sands are out of power and are looking to nukes. Biofuels are causing widespread food inflation. etc.
The inevtiable outcome it that gasoline becomes a luxury fuel for the rich.
Originally Posted By: bob_ninja
Whimsey said:
from what I understand, we don't drill for oil here is because when the world runs out of oil. We'll be the last ones standing to have it, plus our economy relies on it. We rather pay the middle east for it instead of using ours up first. If we used our oil resourses first, then they really would have us by the balls when we run out of oil.
Gas prices hasn't really affected anything as far as I can see. on the interstates, people are still speeding. I just came from mcdonalds. the drive through was 10 vehicles deep. All were either SUVs or full size trucks and a couple of cars. It was a long wait in that drive thru too. I was eating inside by the window. Interesting to note, most of those SUV's and trucks were one person occupants.
Gas prices hasn't really affected anything as far as I can see. on the interstates, people are still speeding. I just came from mcdonalds. the drive through was 10 vehicles deep. All were either SUVs or full size trucks and a couple of cars. It was a long wait in that drive thru too. I was eating inside by the window. Interesting to note, most of those SUV's and trucks were one person occupants.
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
from what I understand, we don't drill for oil here is because when the world runs out of oil. We'll be the last ones standing to have it, plus our economy relies on it. We rather pay the middle east for it instead of using ours up first. If we used our oil resourses first, then they really would have us by the balls when we run out of oil.
Gas prices hasn't really affected anything as far as I can see. on the interstates, people are still speeding. I just came from mcdonalds. the drive through was 10 vehicles deep. All were either SUVs or full size trucks and a couple of cars. It was a long wait in that drive thru too. I was eating inside by the window. Interesting to note, most of those SUV's and trucks were one person occupants.
from what I understand, we don't drill for oil here is because when the world runs out of oil. We'll be the last ones standing to have it, plus our economy relies on it. We rather pay the middle east for it instead of using ours up first. If we used our oil resourses first, then they really would have us by the balls when we run out of oil.
Gas prices hasn't really affected anything as far as I can see. on the interstates, people are still speeding. I just came from mcdonalds. the drive through was 10 vehicles deep. All were either SUVs or full size trucks and a couple of cars. It was a long wait in that drive thru too. I was eating inside by the window. Interesting to note, most of those SUV's and trucks were one person occupants.
3rd
I believe a doubling in the real price of fossil fuel energy will lead to a near doubling in the cost of everything. Energy is what makes everything go. One farmer used to be able to grow food for just five people. Horses might make that 10. Fossil fuel has made the number 120. Take away fossil fuel and everything gets scaled back down to 10.
How many people would it take to build the England-France tunnel, if it was done by manual labor?
There is input from solar energy, nuclear power, and water power, so we are not doomed to doing everything manually. But a restriction on the supply of oil will be felt by everyone.
How many people would it take to build the England-France tunnel, if it was done by manual labor?
There is input from solar energy, nuclear power, and water power, so we are not doomed to doing everything manually. But a restriction on the supply of oil will be felt by everyone.
Nobody seems able or willing to balance the cost of living. I tell everyone, WRITE DOWN your costs and income. How simple is that? I admit my own faults, but they are incremental compared to others. They heat GIANT McMansions with ~whatever~ fuel the thermostat summons while my wife and I split firewood. Those houses are set on .5 acre! They want granite kitchens, marble baths w/ gold fixtures. They pay tax and interest on it all...FOREVER. Our place l;acks finished floors and has a makeshift kitchen. We could go buy all that on credit, but are in no rush.
The theme for our cars is one good one and one older one. MAXIMUM mpg. Others buy a $40k SUV with no money down that gets 12mpg (real world) and use it to run out for cigs or kiddie transport.
So, why can't people manage a budget? My cousin is a school teacher w/3 kids. She spends $200 month on cell phones, buys all pre pack foods and here is the kicker....$600 for a pair of eyeglasses. The kids are "smart", but have no attention span for anything other than school ACTIVITIES. Mind you, not acedemics...they cannot do real math or science, even simple general knowledge things like identify species of trees...but watch sports so intensely, like it was a holy act. Celeb gossip...no problem. Find a country on a map or name the leader...duh.
I guess I got off-topic, but trying to get to the basis of what makes our mindless consumers tick. Everyone demands everything, but has nothing to offer. Definately their personal ooutput is nill. How can our society function???
The theme for our cars is one good one and one older one. MAXIMUM mpg. Others buy a $40k SUV with no money down that gets 12mpg (real world) and use it to run out for cigs or kiddie transport.
So, why can't people manage a budget? My cousin is a school teacher w/3 kids. She spends $200 month on cell phones, buys all pre pack foods and here is the kicker....$600 for a pair of eyeglasses. The kids are "smart", but have no attention span for anything other than school ACTIVITIES. Mind you, not acedemics...they cannot do real math or science, even simple general knowledge things like identify species of trees...but watch sports so intensely, like it was a holy act. Celeb gossip...no problem. Find a country on a map or name the leader...duh.
I guess I got off-topic, but trying to get to the basis of what makes our mindless consumers tick. Everyone demands everything, but has nothing to offer. Definately their personal ooutput is nill. How can our society function???
I actually walked to the store today, and I've been driving a lot more moderately lately trying to optimize my gas mileage. When I fill-up tomorrow I'll know how much higher I'll get than last time. I did a little experiment where I drove harder last tank and drove this tank like a granny and I'm curious to see how much of an impact driving habits have on MPG. So far, just judging by the needle I should be at about 5mpg higher than the last tank.
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