2nd Kreen Cleaning -- 98 Camry V6 -- Results

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Originally Posted By: Artem
Auto-RX Plus had 4 days and 1,400 miles to work it's magic and then I pulled the valve cover for one of my "sneak peeks" to see how things are going..

Getting this done quick eh? Pics?
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: Artem


during the current cleaning phase with Auto-RX Plus, the engine only saw highway driving (400 miles of non stop driving one way, sat overnight and 400 miles back the next day). I then went on another road trip a day after getting back into town and racked up another 600 miles of non stop highway driving @ 76mph with the engine purring along @ 2,800rpm.

Auto-RX Plus had 4 days and 1,400 miles to work it's magic and then I pulled the valve cover for one of my "sneak peeks" to see how things are going...
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Well? Where's the thread?


Ummmm... about that...
grin2.gif


A certain "somebody" asked me not to post the results until further testing can be done.


Surprise, surprise....

I do have to say I'm disappointed, as I was actually hoping there would be at least SOME results. I guess it's in Trajan's hands, now, eh?
 
Originally Posted By: V8man
Artem, thanks for providing that used oil analysis, but a used oil analysis is not gonna tell you if your engine is clean or discolored. My feeling is that your engine is discolored because of your driving style.

Since you did state that your engine is running great and with 2 runs of auto-rx and 2 runs of Kreen I would doubt that you have dirty or sticking rings.

The excess fuel is not showing up in your used oil analysis because it is showing up as fuel vapors coating your engine versus the stuff sitting in your oil.


My understanding of Artem's driving style is that it doesn't differ much from mine: redline every gear until you're up to speed and pray the tires don't squeal enough to garner any police attention. My engine is dang near spotless with that driving style (the ol' italian tune-up, but done constantly) and I'm good friends with the previous owner, as well, and know that he has the same driving style. I'm not arguing that driving style isn't a factor, just pointing out that *this* driving style isn't a cause.
 
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: V8man
Artem, thanks for providing that used oil analysis, but a used oil analysis is not gonna tell you if your engine is clean or discolored. My feeling is that your engine is discolored because of your driving style.

Since you did state that your engine is running great and with 2 runs of auto-rx and 2 runs of Kreen I would doubt that you have dirty or sticking rings.

The excess fuel is not showing up in your used oil analysis because it is showing up as fuel vapors coating your engine versus the stuff sitting in your oil.


My understanding of Artem's driving style is that it doesn't differ much from mine: redline every gear until you're up to speed and pray the tires don't squeal enough to garner any police attention. My engine is dang near spotless with that driving style (the ol' italian tune-up, but done constantly) and I'm good friends with the previous owner, as well, and know that he has the same driving style. I'm not arguing that driving style isn't a factor, just pointing out that *this* driving style isn't a cause.


x2 on this. I try my 06 Scion tC like I stole it and did the same with my 07 Civic Si and 05 Honda S2000 before that. All the engine were / are spotless after 100k of aggressive driving each and every day.

Of course those cars (minus the tC) saw 3,000 mile OCIs with top of the line juice, so many that old oil change rule isn't as bad as many make it up to be?
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Artem
Auto-RX Plus had 4 days and 1,400 miles to work it's magic and then I pulled the valve cover for one of my "sneak peeks" to see how things are going..

Getting this done quick eh? Pics?


It wasn't in the plans but my business can have me sitting at home (short trip driving) for months on end or out driving for hundreds of miles. It was just a coincidence that I had these road trips coming up and put in ARX+ after a 300 mile flush after Kreen.

As far as the pics... I'll make a thread when the time is right but if you can't wait, PM me for the sneak peek shots.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: V8man
Artem, thanks for providing that used oil analysis, but a used oil analysis is not gonna tell you if your engine is clean or discolored. My feeling is that your engine is discolored because of your driving style.

Since you did state that your engine is running great and with 2 runs of auto-rx and 2 runs of Kreen I would doubt that you have dirty or sticking rings.

The excess fuel is not showing up in your used oil analysis because it is showing up as fuel vapors coating your engine versus the stuff sitting in your oil.


My understanding of Artem's driving style is that it doesn't differ much from mine: redline every gear until you're up to speed and pray the tires don't squeal enough to garner any police attention. My engine is dang near spotless with that driving style (the ol' italian tune-up, but done constantly) and I'm good friends with the previous owner, as well, and know that he has the same driving style. I'm not arguing that driving style isn't a factor, just pointing out that *this* driving style isn't a cause.


x2 on this. I try my 06 Scion tC like I stole it and did the same with my 07 Civic Si and 05 Honda S2000 before that. All the engine were / are spotless after 100k of aggressive driving each and every day.

Of course those cars (minus the tC) saw 3,000 mile OCIs with top of the line juice, so many that old oil change rule isn't as bad as many make it up to be?


So this is more about engine design and not driving style?
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Some say it is so. I've read somewhere that the heads on this block (1MZ-FE) run very hot and thus it cooks the oil above the valvetrain.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Some say it is so. I've read somewhere that the heads on this block (1MZ-FE) run very hot and thus it cooks the oil above the valvetrain.


I've read the same. After dealing with the '98 to mid-'03 1ZZ-FE issues on 2 Corollas, I wouldn't doubt it in the slightest.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Some say it is so. I've read somewhere that the heads on this block (1MZ-FE) run very hot and thus it cooks the oil above the valvetrain.


I believe you were using Mobil 1 in this engine, and then you did a few runs with Amsoil OE, and then you started your cleaning thing with auto-rx and Kreen.

Do you remember when you started seeing this discolorization inside your engine, was it while you were using Mobil 1 or Amsoil OE?
 
When I first pulled the valve cover (prior to using Amsoil) the top end was already dirty, so I say Mobil 1 and 3-5k OCIs did it with the help of the poor natural design of this engine.

I'm sure it would have happened with any oil though.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
When I first pulled the valve cover (prior to using Amsoil) the top end was already dirty, so I say Mobil 1 and 3-5k OCIs did it with the help of the poor natural design of this engine.

I'm sure it would have happened with any oil though.


Much like the 1ZZ issue, no, oil choice would have had no effect. Even 1k OCIs with PU wouldn't have prevented it.

I'm familiar with the soft, sticky, gooey buildup you're dealing with, from a neglected post-RENIX Jeep 4.0 I dealt with some 12 years ago. I knew at the onset of this discussion that you wouldn't see results but I bit my tongue, hoping to be proven wrong because this buildup is not fun to deal with and a product that could handle it would be a godsend.

The buildup you are dealing with is the result of the oil flashing off on hotspots, and that includes any cleaning additive, which would flash off before it could do any cleaning, adding to the buildup instead. What you're dealing with is a blend of coke (carbon), varnish, and any additives present in the oil, thus why it's black/brown, sticky, yet still a little slick. The only fix here is a straight solvent, carb cleaner or brake parts cleaner. Once you've got it cleaned up and drain the sump, you'll want to rinse the top end and flood the sump with 0w20 or a blend of MMO and a cheap 5w30, to flush out any residual bits of this [censored] so it doesn't redeposit elsewhere (it will emulsify and find its way THROUGH your oil filter), then drain the sump again and fill with whatever synthetic 5w30 you can get for cheap, which you'll want to dump after 1-1.5k.

From there, maintain with MMO at for the last 500-1000 miles of each OCI, or (dare I say) maintenance doses of ARX might fit the bill as it should increase the flashpoint of the oil (MMO will lower it), which should prevent the buildup in the first place. Heck, if my canola experiment pans out, 8oz of that in the sump will increase the flashpoint of any commercially available PCMO or HDEO, which would also prevent this buildup.

Running 1:2 antifreeze:water (1/3 antifreeze) in your cooling system, rather than 1:1, will increase the cooling capacity, as well, which will reduce the hotspots to some degree. If you do this, err on the side of a little more antifreeze, as the boiling point of the mix is affected and if you get too far below 33% you'll boil your coolant off.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
When I first pulled the valve cover (prior to using Amsoil) the top end was already dirty, so I say Mobil 1 and 3-5k OCIs did it with the help of the poor natural design of this engine.

I'm sure it would have happened with any oil though.


Artem, you may have taught us all something, some engines will be dirty or discolored regardless of what oil we use, and these engines may not get cleaned by using an oil additive. Even short OCI's with Mobil 1 did not help your engine stay spotless.
 
Wow... ignore what I said about ARX or canola raising the flashpoint of your oil. It will in some cases, but canola's 15-30F lower than any product in the M1 line (I don't know ARX's flashpoint off the top of my head) so it would actually lower it. That said, it would have less of an effect on flashpoint than MMO or Kreen and the ester content of either may be beneficial in preventing this buildup from returning once you get rid of it.
 
Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: Artem
When I first pulled the valve cover (prior to using Amsoil) the top end was already dirty, so I say Mobil 1 and 3-5k OCIs did it with the help of the poor natural design of this engine.

I'm sure it would have happened with any oil though.


Artem, you may have taught us all something, some engines will be dirty or discolored regardless of what oil we use, and these engines may not get cleaned by using an oil additive. Even short OCI's with Mobil 1 did not help your engine stay spotless.


It was with Mobil 1 Extended Performance too! not just regular ol' M1.

I agree though, that some engine simply make themselves dirty.
 
Yes there's a difference between an engine that sludges due to neglect and one that sludges even when maintained.

For the latter, you're going to want to use an oil with the highest possible flashpoint.

Maybe that on its own or with a cleaning additive that does not lower the flashpoint too much will clean this particular engine.
 
Originally Posted By: FoxS
Yes there's a difference between an engine that sludges due to neglect and one that sludges even when maintained.

For the latter, you're going to want to use an oil with the highest possible flashpoint.

Maybe that on its own or with a cleaning additive that does not lower the flashpoint too much will clean this particular engine.


Redline 5w30 has a Flash Point of 486 Degrees Fahrenheit or 252 Degrees Celcius.
 
Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: FoxS
Yes there's a difference between an engine that sludges due to neglect and one that sludges even when maintained.

For the latter, you're going to want to use an oil with the highest possible flashpoint.

Maybe that on its own or with a cleaning additive that does not lower the flashpoint too much will clean this particular engine.


Redline 5w30 has a Flash Point of 486 Degrees Fahrenheit or 252 Degrees Celcius.


Right, I'm gonna run ridiculously expensive Redline Oil in my 15 year old beater in an attempt to clean up this mess. Wish me luck
35.gif


^that was a joke.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: FoxS
Yes there's a difference between an engine that sludges due to neglect and one that sludges even when maintained.

For the latter, you're going to want to use an oil with the highest possible flashpoint.

Maybe that on its own or with a cleaning additive that does not lower the flashpoint too much will clean this particular engine.


Redline 5w30 has a Flash Point of 486 Degrees Fahrenheit or 252 Degrees Celcius.


Right, I'm gonna run ridiculously expensive Redline Oil in my 15 year old beater in an attempt to clean up this mess. Wish me luck
35.gif


^that was a joke.


Heck, at $12/qt it'd still be cheaper than a jug of Mobil 1 Extended Performance and a bottle of ARX+, wouldn't it?
 
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