2nd Fram Ultra in a row with holes in the crimp
- Thread starter wwillson
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The strong end of the crimp is on the side of the direction of pressurized oil from the pump. The weak end of the crimp would take very little force so separate, as it takes all of the force when the crimp is pulled in any way. Maybe there is a process at the factory that pushes the crimped element onto the end cap, maybe it's the constant pulsing from the oil pump, we don't know for sure.
If the crimp holds, we don't care that there are holes all the way through, because the oil can't get to the inside of the filter. If the weak end of the crimp pulls apart, the crimp holes allow oil to flow through the paper unfiltered.
If the crimp holds, we don't care that there are holes all the way through, because the oil can't get to the inside of the filter. If the weak end of the crimp pulls apart, the crimp holes allow oil to flow through the paper unfiltered.
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Okay, if this is for a Pentastar engine, this would mean it's a cartridge filter vs a spin on filter where the problem is being reported (correct?). This problem hasn't been found yet on the spin on versions yet.
The Fram I use on the truck is a spin-on and has a metal crimp and wire backing. It's a very well constructed filter.
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So then it's an aftermarket modification to use a spin on filter for a Pentastar engine?
This further pushes me to the Fram Endurance, Tough Guard, Extra Guard, or Prime Guard position
This further pushes me to the Fram Endurance, Tough Guard, Extra Guard, or Prime Guard position
No, the cartridge filter that is the subject of this thread is in the Durango 3.6L Pentastar. I was just stating that the spin-on Fram I use on the truck, which is a Chevy 6.6L diesel, is a well constructed filter.
If they used a good metal crimp on that same 3 layers of folded media setup instead of trying to press "bond" them together without any glue, it would be way more robust seam. It's probably a cost cutting move in the manufacturing process that seems (or is it "seams", lol) to be back firing.
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That is exactly the kind of test that needs to be done to see if this really is a problem or not. It may be that that particular one pleet that has the joint is actually completely closed together, and that it's easy to pull apart when you cut the filter open on the ends. If that is the case then a particle capture flow test would show that the filter still performs to specifications.Bet those filters wouldn’t have done 99%@20u on Ascent’s test bench…
Also, it would be interesting to see what that particular joining pleet looks like by carefully cutting the ends off of the filter section without expanding the radius, and not opening up the media to be flat, for that section of the filter. In other words, without physically changing the spread of those cleats at all around that area. One could cut the filter section from top to bottom instead of cutting the ends off, and leave something like 25% of an arc of both ends for the filter still glued to the media on the top and bottom so that the arc that section is at Remains the same as it is in real use. Then examine that particular area with light and magnifying. In other words we need to take more of a real life look at those pleets without actually physically spreading anything apart in that area to get an idea of what's really going on.
Please see the above posts from the OP - he didn’t simply pull this out and spread it as you suggest.
The pleat was installed that way - with the angle, with the holes exposed. He already performed a “real life” look.
He has already done what you suggest.
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Bottom line. IMO our best bet is to use a OEM or OEM made filter for your best results. OEM manufacturers randomly test every every part they buy and stand behind the result. They have to. This filter shown may not be an issue for a well maintained daily driver, But can assure you this filter is damaging bearings on a heavy footed engine. As a member I listen and talk when I think I have something relevant to add. We talk about oil quality why one is better than the next, and this is the tip of the iceberg. Some pay little attention to articles like this. Lets be realistic here. Any filth that gets past the filter will more likely than not, cause wear or wipe a bearing. Damage a hydraulic pump, Contaminate anything the fluid touches after it leaves this device. Unless these photos are made up (and I know they aren't) it speaks to the attitude of the company. They know these are leaving the factory like that and they made a choice to sell them to us. Allow us to screw them to our prized equipment. SHAME on Fram. Millions and Millions of people like you have been scammed into believing they were protecting their equipment. This is a Class Action case.
Wow, this thread took off quickly. My take on it, the previous made in S Korea Fram Ultra XG (with mesh backing) for Pentastar engines, in my observation, without exception a Bitog favorite.
By comparison seems the move to Brazil coo, not a positive one. I think some here commented in a similar vein after seeing the cartridge for the first time. My .02
By comparison seems the move to Brazil coo, not a positive one. I think some here commented in a similar vein after seeing the cartridge for the first time. My .02
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Oh man, I literally just put a Fram Ultra 7317 on my CR-V and threw away the box. No idea where it was made. I might pull it and cut it open.
I do have a Fram Titanium which was made in the US. Anyone seen issues with US made ones?
I also checked a US-made cartridge style Toyota Fram Ultra and couldn’t tell if it had any issues as the pleats were too tight. It did not look problematic since the seam was very tightly packed in.
I’m not sure what to use at this point. People say Wix quality is dropping and the XP is a rock catcher. I just cut open a regular Wix that looked great though.
Some people don’t like Purolator because of some past issues with torn anti drain back valves and off-kilter alignment, but these seem isolated to me. Some think the Boss has an inefficient particle filter capability but the recent testing I’ve seen shows it’s better than other M+H filters.
Supertech filters seem to offer great value and surprisingly high quality. I am just not sure about their ability to filter 20 mu particles.
My research and experience has led me to conclude that I would run:
I’ll report back after cutting open the Ultra I just installed.
I do have a Fram Titanium which was made in the US. Anyone seen issues with US made ones?
I also checked a US-made cartridge style Toyota Fram Ultra and couldn’t tell if it had any issues as the pleats were too tight. It did not look problematic since the seam was very tightly packed in.
I’m not sure what to use at this point. People say Wix quality is dropping and the XP is a rock catcher. I just cut open a regular Wix that looked great though.
Some people don’t like Purolator because of some past issues with torn anti drain back valves and off-kilter alignment, but these seem isolated to me. Some think the Boss has an inefficient particle filter capability but the recent testing I’ve seen shows it’s better than other M+H filters.
Supertech filters seem to offer great value and surprisingly high quality. I am just not sure about their ability to filter 20 mu particles.
My research and experience has led me to conclude that I would run:
- Purolator Boss
- Wix regular
- Mobil1
- Supertech
- Fram Endurance
I’ll report back after cutting open the Ultra I just installed.
Just don’t use if its made in Brazil; the XG filters made in USA, South Korea, and China have been fine.
Your XG7317 is made in the US, and those have generally been free of issues.
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How does the bonding process work? I took pictures of the 4 Fram offerings this morning. The EG, TG and Ultra appear to use the same technology. They also get marked with a blue dot at the seam; EG and TG on the bottom half, Ultra on the top half. The purpose of the dot may be for:
1. detection that the seam bonding process is complete?
2. to orient to the seam quickly for inspection?
The Endurance does not get the blue mark. The joining process looks different or perhaps the mesh is making it look different?
Extra GuardView attachment 188338
Tough Guard
Ultra Synthetic
Endurance
Nah. Topic filter is a cartridge application made in Brazil. Otoh, XG7317 a spin type made in the US. Worst seen on them (post use) since the change in media, is some wavy pleating. Run it the full oci.
While there may be other Fram cartridges made in Brazil (IDK), to this point haven't seen any Fram spin on made there.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Clearly you weren't around when the Motorcraft and Purolator filters were tearing in service.
The Fram Endurance doesn't have the same marks on the seam as the other 3 filters shown. The "squares" you see in the Endurance seam is the wire backing, not marks from the machine that had "bonded" the seam like on the other 3 filters.
Were all of the other 3 filters made in Brazil like has been pointed out earlier on wwillson's filter?
Since there doesn't seem to be any adhesive involved in these "press bonded" seams, all I can assume is that they are trying to use pressure and maybe heat to "bond" the media together. Like I mentioned earlier, if the process isn't conducted correctly, maybe the seam integrity is lost, like what wwillson saw. If the bonding process is done correctly, then maybe there is no seam integrity issue.
Obviously, manufacturing process QA can mean the difference between good and bad. Fram having these made in Brazil should be looked at by whoever at Fram is responsible to ensure sub-contractors are adhering to the correct manufacturing processes and QA. If it stems from a design problem, then Fram needs to look at the design and change it if necessary.
dnewton3
Staff member
To my eyes, this "new" bonding system (pressed and detended) is an attempt at money savings; they are getting away from metal crimping bands. Yet more degradation of the quality we desire. I can perhaps understand cheapening the low end products, but for goodness sake, just leave the Ultra/Endurance alone! Design it to be robust and make it properly. That goes not just for Fram, but Wix/Mann, etc. Make a high-quality product and I'll pay for it!
I think it's obvious where the market is trending; ever cheaper production savings. The manufacturers knows that VERY FEW people ever cut open a filter. So the marketing efforts they put on the box far outweighs a few internet stories. The only way to get their attention is to start sending the failed filters to their quality departments. That would take some doing to get the right addresses.
I think it's obvious where the market is trending; ever cheaper production savings. The manufacturers knows that VERY FEW people ever cut open a filter. So the marketing efforts they put on the box far outweighs a few internet stories. The only way to get their attention is to start sending the failed filters to their quality departments. That would take some doing to get the right addresses.
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