23 Highlander 2.4T

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Congrats! Got to love the characteristics of turbo motors! We have a 2.5 turbo in our CX-9 and it is just a pleasure to drive.
 
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The highlander packaging is darn good. It has near-minivan utility while not looking like a minivan. My in laws have two of them and they have been 100% trouble free, have good materials in them and simply go about their business carrying anywhere from 1-6 people. Their newest is a hybrid, and they did have to wait about 3 months for it. You can tell this hybrid isn’t their first rodeo - they’ve got it pretty well dialed in.

id have zero issue with a 2.4T in one of these. I’d prefer it, at least on paper, to a v6. I have a 2.7t in the truck, had a Volvo t6, and we have a civic 1.5t in the fam.
 
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The highlander packaging is darn good. It has near-minivan utility while not looking like a minivan. My in laws have two of them and they have been 100% trouble free, have good materials in them and simply go about their business carrying anywhere from 1-6 people. Their newest is a hybrid, and they did have to wait about 3 months for it. You can tell this hybrid isn’t their first rodeo - they’ve got it pretty well dialed in.

id have zero issue with a 2.4T in one of these. I’d prefer it, at least on paper, to a v6. I have a 2.7t in the truck, had a Volvo t6, and we have a civic 1.5t in the fam.
HL is FAR, FAR from having utility of minivan. Doesn’t even come close. If it was at least close to have that utility I would have order HL with this engine and not Sienna. But, I am waiting to see new Pilot as it is dramatically bigger than old one, and old Pilot had much more utility than HL.
HL is one of the smallest SUV’s in that category that is why next year Grand Highlander is coming.
 
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The highlander packaging is darn good. It has near-minivan utility while not looking like a minivan. My in laws have two of them and they have been 100% trouble free, have good materials in them and simply go about their business carrying anywhere from 1-6 people. Their newest is a hybrid, and they did have to wait about 3 months for it. You can tell this hybrid isn’t their first rodeo - they’ve got it pretty well dialed in.

id have zero issue with a 2.4T in one of these. I’d prefer it, at least on paper, to a v6. I have a 2.7t in the truck, had a Volvo t6, and we have a civic 1.5t in the fam.
I'm 5'8" and was cramped in the third row of the new Highlander. Just one of the reasons we chose the Palisade instead. The Toyota is still a great vehicle, just not as roomy, as others have pointed out.
 

CKN

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I'm 5'8" and was cramped in the third row of the new Highlander. Just one of the reasons we chose the Palisade instead. The Toyota is still a great vehicle, just not as roomy, as others have pointed out.
I have a 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe XL-the third row in these type/size of vehicles are pretty much for (smaller) kids only. The Palisade is moving up a size and not an apples to apples comparison to a Highlander and the like.
 
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I have a 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe XL-the third row in these type/size of vehicles are pretty much for (smaller) kids only. The Palisade is moving up a size and not an apples to apples comparison to a Highlander and the like.
Hey @CKN, the Highlander and Palisade are the same class of vehicle. Midsized 3-row SUVs



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CKN

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The Highlander is smaller-look at the numbers.
Yes, but it's the same class vehicle, Midsize 3-row SUV. All these vehicles will have slight variances in dimensions. Something like a Tahoe would be a step up in size and if you see a Tahoe next to a Palisade, you'll see what i mean. The Tahoe dwarfs the Hyundai.
 
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Yes, but it's the same class vehicle, Midsize 3-row SUV. All these vehicles will have slight variances in dimensions. Something like a Tahoe would be a step up in size and if you see a Tahoe next to a Palisade, you'll see what i mean. The Tahoe dwarfs the Hyundai.
I think you’re getting hung up on the marketing-driven size terms than the metrics. The size of the Highlander is significantly smaller than the Palisade or the Pilot.
 
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Yes, but it's the same class vehicle, Midsize 3-row SUV. All these vehicles will have slight variances in dimensions. Something like a Tahoe would be a step up in size and if you see a Tahoe next to a Palisade, you'll see what i mean. The Tahoe dwarfs the Hyundai.
People don’t realize how much smaller HL actually is. That is not problem per se as there are a lot of people who like that size. Problem is for Toyota as they are missing big chunk of sale that goes to Pilot etc.
They are going with Grand Highlander, but they are super slow and not sure stretching HL would do a trick.
New Pilot for example is only 1.4” shorter than KIA Sedona.
 

4WD

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Yes, but it's the same class vehicle, Midsize 3-row SUV. All these vehicles will have slight variances in dimensions. Something like a Tahoe would be a step up in size and if you see a Tahoe next to a Palisade, you'll see what i mean. The Tahoe dwarfs the Hyundai.
Yup - made a road trip in the Tahoe today - a highway star - but my Jeep is far more agile around town …
 

dnewton3

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They element loss of V6 bcs. they don't know anything else. It was a mediocre engine by any parameter. It was not only a lazy response but super narrow peak torque line.
If by "mediocre ... by any parameter" you mean incredibly reliable and long-lasting, then yes it was bland. The 3.5L Toyota v-6 is a stalwart by most any measure. N/A engines of moderate displacement are not going to have a lot of low-end grunt. Modern turbo DI engines have that as an advatage, with all the technology; however they also have the reliability challenges that n/a v-6 engines don't. V-6 engines are also typically smoother and quieter than an I-4.

It's not really fair to compare/contrast the two engines. They have very different means of achieving the tasks ahead of them. They both work well overall. It's just a matter of preference. But, the future is marching towards us, whether we like it or not:
- The 3.5L v6 n/a Toyota engine is giving way to the I-4 turbo. About the only place you can still get the 3.5L is in the Lexus RC, IS, ES.
- The 3.5L v6 n/a Honda is bowing out to the I-4 turbos. Acura did just develps a new 3.5L v-6 for the TLX Type S, but it's a turbo.
- The 3.5L v6 n/a Ford is pretty much gone; it does live on as a base 3.3L in the F150. Other than that, well, it's more 4 and 6 cylinder DI turbos ...
 
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If by "mediocre ... by any parameter" you mean incredibly reliable and long-lasting, then yes it was bland. The 3.5L Toyota v-6 is a stalwart by most any measure. N/A engines of moderate displacement are not going to have a lot of low-end grunt. Modern turbo DI engines have that as an advatage, with all the technology; however they also have the reliability challenges that n/a v-6 engines don't. V-6 engines are also typically smoother and quieter than an I-4.

It's not really fair to compare/contrast the two engines. They have very different means of achieving the tasks ahead of them. They both work well overall. It's just a matter of preference. But, the future is marching towards us, whether we like it or not:
- The 3.5L v6 n/a Toyota engine is giving way to the I-4 turbo. About the only place you can still get the 3.5L is in the Lexus RC, IS, ES.
- The 3.5L v6 n/a Honda is bowing out to the I-4 turbos. Acura did just develps a new 3.5L v-6 for the TLX Type S, but it's a turbo.
- The 3.5L v6 n/a Ford is pretty much gone; it does live on as a base 3.3L in the F150. Other than that, well, it's more 4 and 6 cylinder DI turbos ...
Not really. 2GR-FKS is notorious for timing chain cover leaks. The whole engine has to get out. So no, not really incredibly reliable when you are hit with $xxxx bill. Now, if it was BMW, people would say: sure, what did you expect? Toyota? Incredibly reliable.
But I do agree that Toyota and other manufacturers used very simple V6 engines (and while V6 is smoother than I4, it is a compromise to achieve space. It ain't Alfa Romeo smoothness-wise), bcs. fuel is cheap. There was no need to go for complex engines when you could offer a super simple V6, and call it a day. That time is mostly past. Europeans had to go with complex engines as their primary market is EU. So, yeah, when you have to pay $9 for a gallon, mpg really, really matters=complexity.
But I am not sure what problems people expect with 2.4T? It has much more torque, it will be far better towing-wise, and much easier to drive on a daily basis. European police use small turbo engines (and when I say small, I mean 1.5 etc.) for like 4 decades now. The new VW T7 delivery vehicle which weighs some 5,000lbs comes with 1.5T engine and it is selling like hotcakes.

As for your concern about V6 being extinct, Acura has a new V6, and Honda Pilot comes with a brand new designed V6 not just carry over.
I know you are looking for a new luxury vehicle, so maybe Acura?
 

dnewton3

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I don't know that "notorious" is a fair description of the leak issue with the 2GR. I'd certainly agree it's a thing which must be acknowleged. But it's not every single engine that suffers from this. And, if this is the worst that happens, (a small oil drip out of a timing cover) won't ever stop the engine from running, nor will it generate CEL code lights. It's annoying for sure, but that does not mean the engine is unreliable. The engine is still VERY reliable. Some just drip a little oil. No one wants their engine to leak oil, but if you had a choice of a small oil drip versus major costs of component replacement, I think most folks would just live with the drip. Most any engine, if aged enough, will develop a drip of oil from somewhere (often the valve cover gaskets, or a timing cover gasket). That's not unique to the 2GR by any means.

DI with turbo gives a very broad power band, which is desirable for daily driving. And, it also achieves lower emmisions, so it's the wave of the future whether I like it or not. I don't believe that these new, smaller engines won't be OK to drive; actually I think they are very user-friendly. I just think they will (and have already proven in many brands) to be more maintenance intensive in terms of costs and reliability issues as they age.

Whereas the 2GR with 100k miles on it may have a leak (which you can choose to fix or ignore), it won't affect the engine reliability at all; it will just keep running. But a DI turbo engine with that same 100k miles on it may have costly issues (worn out turbo, waste gate issues, carbon on intake valves, etc) which actually will significantly affect the way the engine runs, and probably "throw codes" which mandate addressing to run properly.

At least several of the OEMs have updated their designs such that the engines have dual-fuel delivery systems. DI concerns me due to the carbon build-up issue. DI combined with PFI at least addresses this issue (or at least we hope it does, but only time let us know if this is true or not).
 
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The new Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX600 have the 3.5 V6. It has twin turbos now so maybe not the same engine as before but still, a V6.

I don’t get the disparagement over turbocharged four cylinder engines.
 
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I don't know that "notorious" is a fair description of the leak issue with the 2GR. I'd certainly agree it's a thing which must be acknowleged. But it's not every single engine that suffers from this. And, if this is the worst that happens, (a small oil drip out of a timing cover) won't ever stop the engine from running, nor will it generate CEL code lights. It's annoying for sure, but that does not mean the engine is unreliable. The engine is still VERY reliable. Some just drip a little oil. No one wants their engine to leak oil, but if you had a choice of a small oil drip versus major costs of component replacement, I think most folks would just live with the drip. Most any engine, if aged enough, will develop a drip of oil from somewhere (often the valve cover gaskets, or a timing cover gasket). That's not unique to the 2GR by any means.
For the record, I am a big fan of the 2GR-FE/FKS engines.

But the timing cover leaks are not very common before 100K. However, once they get older (>10 years old), they do become semi-prevalent. Bad news is that when the leak shows up it will contaminate the drive belt and r/f cv axle. If you do not repair the leak, you will be replacing those two items regularly.
 
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Not really. 2GR-FKS is notorious for timing chain cover leaks. The whole engine has to get out. So no, not really incredibly reliable when you are hit with $xxxx bill. Now, if it was BMW, people would say: sure, what did you expect? Toyota? Incredibly reliable.
But I do agree that Toyota and other manufacturers used very simple V6 engines (and while V6 is smoother than I4, it is a compromise to achieve space. It ain't Alfa Romeo smoothness-wise), bcs. fuel is cheap. There was no need to go for complex engines when you could offer a super simple V6, and call it a day. That time is mostly past. Europeans had to go with complex engines as their primary market is EU. So, yeah, when you have to pay $9 for a gallon, mpg really, really matters=complexity.
But I am not sure what problems people expect with 2.4T? It has much more torque, it will be far better towing-wise, and much easier to drive on a daily basis. European police use small turbo engines (and when I say small, I mean 1.5 etc.) for like 4 decades now. The new VW T7 delivery vehicle which weighs some 5,000lbs comes with 1.5T engine and it is selling like hotcakes.

As for your concern about V6 being extinct, Acura has a new V6, and Honda Pilot comes with a brand new designed V6 not just carry over.
I know you are looking for a new luxury vehicle, so maybe Acura?
That's if the leak is large enough that it is worth fixing. Yes, The Car Care Nut did do a video on it.

The space compromise with a V6 is going with a narrower V-angle, such as 60°, as a 90° will take up more space. But the champ in V6 space compromise is the VR motor, with the 3.6L having 10.6° angle. Adding things like variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, etc turns a simple V6 into something more complicated. The big reason for turbo downsizing from larger engines isn't fuel economy, it's emissions output, as Toyota didn't promise better fuel economy with the 2.4T, just better emissions output. If someone wanted better fuel economy, that's why Toyota has the Hybrid option. Diesels, which is still the mpg champion (emissions, not so much), so that's the go-to option if a person wants better mpg than a gasoline engine in Europe.

The Acura MDX is nice.... but as a 3-row SUV, it's missing 1 key feature... 3rd row air vents, that the more pedestrian Pilot does have.

Let's not forget, Toyota is not a stranger to turbocharging. They have produced 2 legendary turbo engines, 3S-GTE and the 2JZ-GTE, one of which is also rally proven
 
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That's if the leak is large enough that it is worth fixing. Yes, The Car Care Nut did do a video on it.

The space compromise with a V6 is going with a narrower V-angle, such as 60°, as a 90° will take up more space. But the champ in V6 space compromise is the VR motor, with the 3.6L having 10.6° angle. Adding things like variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, etc turns a simple V6 into something more complicated. The big reason for turbo downsizing from larger engines isn't fuel economy, it's emissions output, as Toyota didn't promise better fuel economy with the 2.4T, just better emissions output. If someone wanted better fuel economy, that's why Toyota has the Hybrid option. Diesels, which is still the mpg champion (emissions, not so much), so that's the go-to option if a person wants better mpg than a gasoline engine in Europe.

The Acura MDX is nice.... but as a 3-row SUV, it's missing 1 key feature... 3rd row air vents, that the more pedestrian Pilot does have.

Let's not forget, Toyota is not a stranger to turbocharging. They have produced 2 legendary turbo engines, 3S-GTE and the 2JZ-GTE, one of which is also rally proven
VR6 is champion, but Asian manufacturers won’t bother with anything interesting in 2022.

Yes, they did have legendary engines. DID!
They have lost all that know how. They wouldn’t have such horrid record with D4-D in Europe, from which they completely gave up in small vehicles and just buying engines from BMW. They would develop Supra on their own. They would end up with ridiculous issues on current 3.5TT etc.
A lot of manufacturers had legendary engines. They don’t anymore, and some don’t exist actually.
 

5280

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Two month update:

We're 1100 miles in so far in mostly cold wintry weather here in CO.

Mileage avg: 22.1 on 85 octane fuel (we're over 5k') here. As the break-in continues and temps warm up, I suspect this to be a mid to high 20's vehicle in routine driving.

Engine: the 2.4T is a nice little engine with good torque off the line and highway passing power. It's more noisy when cold, quiets down and is very smooth when warm. For a family wagon, it does the job well even with 6 people aboard.

AWD: Superb AWD system is torque vectoring and in fast corners it feels good with a nice push from the rear to help rotate thru the corner. Great in snow with fast response to send power to the rear when needed.

Tires: OEM Bridgestone Alenza A/S sports are decently quiet in the dry, fine on wet pavement, no hydroplane issues, horrible in ice and snow as expected. I plan to replace them soon with Michelin CC2's.

Cabin: comfortable, heats up fast, seat heaters could be stronger, heated steering wheel is great only heats at 10-2 and 9-3 which is fine for us. Good fit and finish, no noises. JBL audio is clean and crisp.

Tech: When the system connects correctly to the phone (most of the time), the Carplay and touchscreen interface is good with sharp graphics and snappy response time. The car is set up to have two driver profiles for the multimedia attached to the keys. However we are still awaiting key #2 from Toyota so it always defaults to "guest" and frequently forgets radio presents and some settings within the system which is annoying. I'll update more when the key eventually arrives.

Overall we're still very happy with the car and the purchase. I plan to do it's first oil change this coming weekend if the weather forecast holds. I need to get to a Toyota dealer to pickup a filter since it is a new engine and I am unable to locate one anywhere online. Spec'd for 0w20- I have a case of Mobil 1 ready to go from my stash.
 
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