22-RE Startup noise

[JustinC25]

I was at my grandparents house yesterday and had to drive grandpa's truck to the store. ('93 Toyota 4x2 5spd 91k)
Upon starting it, there was an awful valve clatter, until the oil pressure built up. Then it quieted down, but there is still some valve noise. It is currently running Valvoline AC 5w30 off the tap at the dealership w/ a factory Toyota filter. (The not so good "made in Thailand" filter.) This is b/c dad got to it first when it was do. He is a MDT at the dealer.
Anyway, have any of you found this valve clatter on these engines from cold start up ? If so, or not what oil/filter combo are you running ?
I don't remember there being that much noise at startup in our camper ('86 Toyota Dolphin 22-RE).
Last time I drove the camper was 4 months ago.
It had PYB 5w30, and a Motorcraft FL-910.
I can't just go start the camper for comparison, b/c it is at my dad's house 40 miles away.
Thanks for your help,
Justin

 

[Johnny248]

I'm pretty sure that engine has lash that is adjusted by shims?? I could be wrong but, it really should not make any noise like that.

 

[JustinC25]

This one has the screw in the 10 mm nut setup.
The previous owner said that he had the valves adjusted, but I think I'll recheck them. I'm wondering if the noise also has to do with the filter. It takes a good 3-5 seconds before the noise goes away. This is making me think that the filter is empty on startup. but it has a ADBV. Maybe it is leaking past the ADBV.

 

[caravanmike]

doesn't the 22re timing chain make a cold start rattle when it is stretched or the chain guides give out?

 

[JustinC25]

yes, but this noise goes away as soon as oil pressure comes up.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: JustinC25
I was at my grandparents house yesterday and had to drive grandpa's truck to the store. ('93 Toyota 4x2 5spd 91k)
Upon starting it, there was an awful valve clatter, until the oil pressure built up. Then it quieted down, but there is still some valve noise. It is currently running Valvoline AC 5w30 off the tap at the dealership w/ a factory Toyota filter. (The not so good "made in Thailand" filter.) This is b/c dad got to it first when it was do. He is a MDT at the dealer.
Anyway, have any of you found this valve clatter on these engines from cold start up ? If so, or not what oil/filter combo are you running ?
I don't remember there being that much noise at startup in our camper ('86 Toyota Dolphin 22-RE).
Last time I drove the camper was 4 months ago.
It had PYB 5w30, and a Motorcraft FL-910.
I can't just go start the camper for comparison, b/c it is at my dad's house 40 miles away.
Thanks for your help,
Justin


Try a different filter 1st i.e nappa gold,wix,purelator. That may be the problem.The anti drain back valve is probably the culprit.

 

[wolfc70]

Originally Posted By: JustinC25
yes, but this noise goes away as soon as oil pressure comes up.


The timing chain tensioner is hydraulic, it uses oil pressure to tension the chain. I thought the later models (1985 and newer) used a single row timing chain that has been problematic. You may need a new timing chain and guides. Your start up noise is the timing chain slapping against the guides.

EDIT: From Wikipedia:

"Toyota swapped the dual row timing chain used in older engines for a single row chain with plastic guides in 1983. This system reduced drag on the engine, but was inherently problematic. Every 80,000 to 140,000 miles, the chain stretches to the point that the hydraulic-operated chain tensioner can not take up any more slack. When this happens, the timing chain impacts driver's side chain guide, breaking the plastic within a few hundred miles of driving. If the engine continues to be operated after the guide breaks, the chain will stretch rapidly (an unfortunate characteristic of single row chains.) The loose chain causes inaccurate ignition timing which usually results in noticeable rough running. In continued operation the chain can jump a tooth on the drive sprocket or break entirely, with either case resulting in engine damage from valve-piston collisions."

 

[tig1]

Check again. Only M1 makes start up noise.

 

[JustinC25]

The valve cover is leaking pretty good, so I'm gonna change the gasket next week. I'll inspect the chain and guides, and adjust the valves at that time.

I think it is probably just the filter. But good call on the timing chain and guides.

I don't think the noise was as pronounced the last time I changed the oil. It had PYB 5w30 with a Napa Gold filter at that time.

Justin

 

[JohnBrowning]

First 90% of the time it is not valve clatter you are hearing on the 22RE. It is usualy the injectors which get noisey as heck after a few years. Second the feul line if any vapor is in it will bang like a bad plumping job in a persons old house until the vapor has made it way down the return line.

If it is truly noise fromt he valve train I suggest you do a hot valve adjustment. All you need is a wrench and a screw driver and some feeler gauges. The trick is unhooking as much as you can before you even startt he engine up that way once you shut it off you can take the valve cover off fast and start working.

Oh you will need a 19mm socket and a large rachet or breaker bar to turn the engine over by hand useing the crank pully bolt. About every 30,000 miles you should adjust the mechanical cam followers for best performance and low noise.

The tensioner does have a weak spring to keep it most of the way out until oil pressure comes up. It could need replaceing though if the shoe on the end is worn that could be timing chain noies!

 

[wolfc70]

Originally Posted By: JustinC25
The valve cover is leaking pretty good, so I'm gonna change the gasket next week. I'll inspect the chain and guides, and adjust the valves at that time.

I think it is probably just the filter. But good call on the timing chain and guides.

I don't think the noise was as pronounced the last time I changed the oil. It had PYB 5w30 with a Napa Gold filter at that time.

Justin


Yeah ,if you have the valve cover off, take a good look at the timing chain. The filter could be part of the issue if the ADBV is bad. Although, most Toyota forums list the start up rattle as the first sign of the timing chain going.

My 2000 Saturn LS1 with the GM 2.2 Ecotec had the same issue. The timing chain stretches and once it gets bad enough, the tensioner can not keep enough tension on the chain, creating noise. Mine was most noticeable on start up and hot idle. The only cure is a new chain, guides and tensioner.

You might get lucky and the filter might be the culprit for now, but since the 22-re is known for stretching timing chains, it might be something to keep an eye on.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/thook86/Aurora Pics/100_2373.jpg

This photo is from Yotatech.com, 22-re with 88k miles.

 

[Al]

I'm gonna bet on the timing chain. It is the Achilles heal for the 22-RE. It started when they went to Nylon/plastic guides in 1993 I believe. It is noisier at startup and then quiets down some but is still audible.

They go like clockwork at 70K to 90K miles. Mine went out at 78K miles.

 

[Max_Wander]

Both 5S-FE's we've owned have done it on all kinds of oils. Seems like a Toyota thing, but in reality any engine started with an empty gallery will do that, it's just worse on poorly designed engines with the oil filter mounted in a bad position, like base-side down.

 

[tom slick]

I also vote broken timing chain guide, classic symptoms with the horrible noise until oil pressure comes up. Toyota went to a single row chain and plastic guides in the 22R (later 22R-E)in 1984. Before long the chain will eat the timing cover and you'll have coolant mixing with the oil and you'll need a $120 cover with the timing chain guides and head gasket kit.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
I also vote broken timing chain guide, classic symptoms with the horrible noise until oil pressure comes up. Toyota went to a single row chain and plastic guides in the 22R (later 22R-E)in 1984. Before long the chain will eat the timing cover and you'll have coolant mixing with the oil and you'll need a $120 cover with the timing chain guides and head gasket kit.


X2

 

[crazycrak]

I would agree on the timming chain. they clatter kinda like the GM 2.2Ls