2024 Tacoma Front Differential Failure

If you have and old school 4wd, put it in 4Lo put the brakes to the floor then the gas to the floor. I guarantee something will break. A axle, a diff, a u-joint? You’re talking about hundreds of HP through probably 30:1 gear reduction.

That’s why you don’t use a locked 4wd on a surface with good traction. In this case the brakes seem to provide that resistance?

I have seen lots of things break off road. The root cause is most often the long skinny peddle.

My Nissans have a similar anti slip system and when the ABS engages the ECU limits the engine throttle. I wonder if Toyota was trying to juice off road performance and not limiting the engine enough?

People think mechanical lockers are for traction but their biggest benefit is when you articulate the wheel off the ground it doesn’t spin fast , usually causing a broken axle when it hits the ground again.
 
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If you have and old school 4wd, put it in 4Lo put the brakes to the floor then the gas to the floor. I guarantee something will break. A axle, a diff, a u-joint? You’re talking about hundreds of HP through probably 30:1 gear reduction.

That’s why you don’t use a locked 4wd on a surface with good traction. In this case the brakes seem to provide that resistance?

I have seen lots of things break off road. The root cause is most often the long skinny peddle.

My Nissans have a similar anti slip system and when the ABS engages the ECU limits the engine throttle. I wonder if Toyota was trying to juice off road performance and not limiting the engine enough?

People think mechanical lockers are for traction but their biggest benefit is when you articulate the wheel off the ground it doesn’t spin fast , usually causing a broken axle when it hits the ground again.

I think we're seeing now how underpowered the old trucks were. Never saw the previous gen Offroads with similar gadgets "explode" like that. Those engines made no torque down low. The new ones are all or nothing down low now.
 
Old school off-road packages: We need heavier duty axles and skid plates for off-road duty so they don't break

New off-road packages: We need software that steps in to cut power off road so the axles don't break

This is because common sense has been decreasing with time so we have to protect things from ourselves.
 
If you have and old school 4wd, put it in 4Lo put the brakes to the floor then the gas to the floor. I guarantee something will break. A axle, a diff, a u-joint? You’re talking about hundreds of HP through probably 30:1 gear reduction.

That’s why you don’t use a locked 4wd on a surface with good traction. In this case the brakes seem to provide that resistance?

I have seen lots of things break off road. The root cause is most often the long skinny peddle.

My Nissans have a similar anti slip system and when the ABS engages the ECU limits the engine throttle. I wonder if Toyota was trying to juice off road performance and not limiting the engine enough?

People think mechanical lockers are for traction but their biggest benefit is when you articulate the wheel off the ground it doesn’t spin fast , usually causing a broken axle when it hits the ground again.
I disagree. It'll either pull through the brakes, or it won't.

Neutral drops are a different matter. Shock loads are unpredictable but more destructive. The biggest mistake people make in Moab is staying in it once you start bouncing on slickrock (traction=superb)

But no, forcing a vehicle up a steep rocky climb in 4lo places greater forces on the drivetrain than trying to plow through the brakes. Or plowing with an 8' blade and chains and aggressive TADs. Or forcing a heavy trailer around in 4lo.

If a vehicle breaks something while power braking in 4lo, it's underbuilt, period. But I would argue >10% of body-on-frame trucks and SUVs would experience this.
 
I disagree. It'll either pull through the brakes, or it won't.

Neutral drops are a different matter. Shock loads are unpredictable but more destructive. The biggest mistake people make in Moab is staying in it once you start bouncing on slickrock (traction=superb)

But no, forcing a vehicle up a steep rocky climb in 4lo places greater forces on the drivetrain than trying to plow through the brakes. Or plowing with an 8' blade and chains and aggressive TADs. Or forcing a heavy trailer around in 4lo.

If a vehicle breaks something while power braking in 4lo, it's underbuilt, period. But I would argue >10% of body-on-frame trucks and SUVs would experience this.
It always impressed me how seemingly over-built my buddy's '05 Super Duty drivetrain was. He had a tuner on it and we'd put 15K behind it and it would just PULL (he'd be passing people), and of course the 5R110 would do full-power upshifts.

It sounds like if you took one of these to the pulls it would puke its pots all over the lane.
 
Those TFL guys know exactly what they are doing and succeding at it.
I'm sure they're making YT money, and that's fine. I just wouldn't take mechanical or vehicle advice from them -- or at least I wouldn't weigh it anymore heavily than advice from any other stranger off the street.

Much like PF, there's an element of entertainment value, although I can only take it in small doses.

Maybe if TFL would introduce their own Stig and baddies to chase them.....entertainment value would climb a touch 🤔
 
I disagree. It'll either pull through the brakes, or it won't.

Neutral drops are a different matter. Shock loads are unpredictable but more destructive. The biggest mistake people make in Moab is staying in it once you start bouncing on slickrock (traction=superb)

But no, forcing a vehicle up a steep rocky climb in 4lo places greater forces on the drivetrain than trying to plow through the brakes. Or plowing with an 8' blade and chains and aggressive TADs. Or forcing a heavy trailer around in 4lo.

If a vehicle breaks something while power braking in 4lo, it's underbuilt, period. But I would argue >10% of body-on-frame trucks and SUVs would experience this.
If it will pull through the brakes without breaking something either your brakes suck or your engine does. If you don’t believe me go try it. 200 ft/lbs torque x30:1 or more.

As for the Toyota system the use case is a shock load. The abs system was coming on too harshly while spinning - hence the reprogram.

Possibly the diff is under built. I know my Nissan ones are. I could break them at will if I wanted. Possibly the Dana 44 in a Rubicon is solid enough?
 
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In other words the front diff was designed too light for the max available power and Toyota counted on programming to protect it.
Thats what I heard.

Edit:

He makes it seem like the guy was doing something......which he was not.

"Pretty dog gone rare"..............yeah for a mall crawler
 
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I think we're seeing now how underpowered the old trucks were. Never saw the previous gen Offroads with similar gadgets "explode" like that. Those engines made no torque down low. The new ones are all or nothing down low now.
Certain trucks. Certain small trucks.
 
It looks like toyota needs the give out for free, beta test vehicles for us normal folks to test for them, since their test department seems very lacking these days. :ROFLMAO:
 
Interesting.

Jeep WKs were well known for breaking front diff mounts … especially if used off road. A post reads above that the ‘yota circumstances required are rare … the WK diff mount failure was more frequent than rare, at least on the Jeep boards 14 years ago. But there seemed fewer YouTube publications back then making these things known. ??

It sounded to me, since low engine torque is mentioned, that the engine may have revved while the vehicle was clawing for traction. THAT can be a problem. Put a full size 4x4 on the ice with the engine revved and what happens when a full axle sees a patch of cement all at once?
 
It looks like toyota needs the give out for free, beta test vehicles for us normal folks to test for them, since their test department seems very lacking these days. :ROFLMAO:
Everything existed in the past and likely worst. Now anyone can easily use an existing platform to get their video out instantly to the world and millions upon millions of people. In the past it was impossible to know easily what reality was besides what controlled press that existed.
 
If you have and old school 4wd, put it in 4Lo put the brakes to the floor then the gas to the floor. I guarantee something will break. A axle, a diff, a u-joint? You’re talking about hundreds of HP through probably 30:1 gear reduction.

I have done this in my XJ many times to launch it in 4lo, no problems 🤷🏻‍♂️. You need to be able to load up in 4lo to crawl over stuff so I don't see this as an issue. Maybe a neutral drop in 4lo :D

Newer and newer products are becoming less durable due to optimizations. Use the product a different way than anticipated and bam.

It's unfortunate when OEMs gets it wrong or rely too much on analysis, I don't see the fix as being bad persay but I don't think it instills much confidence in durability.
 
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