2023 HD Road Glide Limited; HPL V-Twin 20w-50. 16.8k mi

[Panda87]

Here is the first post: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-hpl-v-twin-20w-50-7400-mile-analysis.384962/

This is the second analysis performed on this particular engine oil sample. Only part I messed up is not noting that my filter was changed at 10,000 miles.
Due to the filter change, wear metals reduced or stabilized.
Oxidation and TBN didn’t hardly get dented.
This oil has been run through Lock and Lean low speed police style training, sub-freezing starts, cold/wet long rides, scorching Alabama summer rides on I-65 that sometimes involved lots of stop and go on the interstate with head temps reaching 305 during the hottest events.

Let me know your thoughts!

 

[Nessism1]

No alarm bells over the Copper and Tin numbers?

 

[fantastic]

Sn & Fe didn't rise for this second sample which is good. Could very well be break-in. Your original oil drain was 400-500 miles before going to HPL? I see 1 qt added what is the size of the sump? Go to 20k & change?

 

[Panda87]

No alarm bells over the Copper and Tin numbers?

It seems to be characteristic of this particular engine when new. It’s the Harley Milwaukee 8 114cu in engine. If you happen to find others around here, when new they shed somewhat ridiculous numbers of copper and tin. The numbers fall off once the bike hits over 10,000 miles.

 

[Panda87]

Sn & Fe didn't rise for this second sample which is good. Could very well be break-in. Your original oil drain was 400-500 miles before going to HPL? I see 1 qt added what is the size of the sump? Go to 20k & change?

Hey fantastic, yes you are correct. Factory fill was drained at 400mi and filled with this fill of HPL. The quart of top off oil was between the filter change (filter changes on this engine are messy) and some blow by consumption, which is also something these engines are known for.

You’re thinking like I am, run to 20,000 then do a full change and filter. That should then pull down the copper and tin numbers to more “normal” levels.

Edit: forgot to add that this is a 4 quart sump.

 

[Nessism1]

It seems to be characteristic of this particular engine when new. It’s the Harley Milwaukee 8 114cu in engine. If you happen to find others around here, when new they shed somewhat ridiculous numbers of copper and tin. The numbers fall off once the bike hits over 10,000 miles.

I see.

Maybe a crazy thought, but what about running some cheaper, but decent oil, and changing it at 3000 mile intervals, until the copper and tin wear levels off? It's hard to imagine that having all that metal circulating with the oil, for such a long time, is good for the engine.

 

[Panda87]

I see.

Maybe a crazy thought, but what about running some cheaper, but decent oil, and changing it at 3000 mile intervals, until the copper and tin wear levels off? It's hard to imagine that having all that metal circulating with the oil, for such a long time, is good for the engine.

It’s a thought I had myself, but the Amsoil filters I bought a case of ain’t cheap. The copper and tin will likely fall off dramatically once I do a drain and fill. You can see the copper dropped off substantially after just changing the filter. Almost all wear metals flatlined or reduced. There were a couple that increased by a singular count, but across the board the wear numbers held static. My strong suspicion is original break in. I’m at 18,500 on the bike now with another 1000 mile ride planned 2 weeks from now, so it won’t be long until this oil is drained from the engine.

 

[Propflux01]

It seems to be characteristic of this particular engine when new. It’s the Harley Milwaukee 8 114cu in engine. If you happen to find others around here, when new they shed somewhat ridiculous numbers of copper and tin. The numbers fall off once the bike hits over 10,000 miles.

first time I drained my oil at 2500 miles, I though something was taking a dump. “Glitterville” in the oil. The second change at 6000 was much better, and the third at 10k was almost “glitter” free. The bike runs great and oil usage is nil. Running HPL in mine now, as well.

 

[Panda87]

first time I drained my oil at 2500 miles, I though something was taking a dump. “Glitterville” in the oil. The second change at 6000 was much better, and the third at 10k was almost “glitter” free. The bike runs great and oil usage is nil. Running HPL in mine now, as well.

Man I would have panicked! Mine had a little bit of expected shininess to it, but nothing I haven’t seen from a new engine. This will be my second drain at just less than 20k on the oil lol. HPL has performed admirably over this service.

 

[fantastic]

Hey fantastic, yes you are correct. Factory fill was drained at 400mi and filled with this fill of HPL. The quart of top off oil was between the filter change (filter changes on this engine are messy) and some blow by consumption, which is also something these engines are known for. Edit: forgot to add that this is a 4 quart sump.

Thanks for the details.

You’re thinking like I am, run to 20,000 then do a full change and filter. That should then pull down the copper and tin numbers to more “normal” levels.

Excited to see what's next for you. Think I remember you & I discussed helmet rules before but it's been a few months.
As always keep the rubber side down.

 

[Panda87]

Thanks for the details.

Excited to see what's next for you. Think I remember you & I discussed helmet rules before but it's been a few months.
As always keep the rubber side down.

You got it! Much appreciated man

 

[Propflux01]

Man I would have panicked! Mine had a little bit of expected shininess to it, but nothing I haven’t seen from a new engine. This will be my second drain at just less than 20k on the oil lol. HPL has performed admirably over this service.

Oh, trust me, I was. I looked into the cam chest and saw nothing out of the ordinary. So I replaced cams and lifters. The old stuff looked pretty normal. Been running great since. My understanding is that it is sloppy machining, as I have spoken with others that had similar glitter in their bikes with seemingly no ill issues.

 

[Panda87]

Oh, trust me, I was. I looked into the cam chest and saw nothing out of the ordinary. So I replaced cams and lifters. The old stuff looked pretty normal. Been running great since. My understanding is that it is sloppy machining, as I have spoken with others that had similar glitter in their bikes with seemingly no ill issues.

What cam did you go with? Something nice and choppy?

I could believe that the machining isn’t exact based on wear numbers I’ve seen in analyses here on HD engines. All of them seem to shed copper and tin when new, but the levels of them are all over the place depending on the individual engines.

 

[Propflux01]

I went with a milder cam. I don’t care for the “dragster idle”. It was a (now discontinued) Woods 22X. It’s a step above the Harley screaming’ eagle torque cam, but below the Woods 22xE. It has a mild rumble, great torque and won’t kill my compensator as quick!

 

[Panda87]

I went with a milder cam. I don’t care for the “dragster idle”. It was a (now discontinued) Woods 22X. It’s a step above the Harley screaming’ eagle torque cam, but below the Woods 22xE. It has a mild rumble, great torque and won’t kill my compensator as quick!

That’s awesome! I look at how wild some of these guys’ builds are and it makes me curious as to what it does to their engine longevity. So, I’m new to HD and their overall architecture and eager to learn everything. I’ve seen talk of compensator wear, compensator ramps to change clutch behavior, etc. I’m assuming the compensator runs on the drive gear, but don’t know much about it beyond that. What’s its purpose and how does it wear? Thanks for any info!

 

[Propflux01]

That’s awesome! I look at how wild some of these guys’ builds are and it makes me curious as to what it does to their engine longevity. So, I’m new to HD and their overall architecture and eager to learn everything. I’ve seen talk of compensator wear, compensator ramps to change clutch behavior, etc. I’m assuming the compensator runs on the drive gear, but don’t know much about it beyond that. What’s its purpose and how does it wear? Thanks for any info!

It’s a spring loaded three ramp item at the left side of the engine crank. It softens the pulses to the transmission (since the v-twin fires at 270* intervals, you have power strokes that are unequal per revolution). It has a sprocket on it that runs a chain to the clutch basket/transmission. Behind it is the stator. Everytime you throttle up or down it rides on the ramps and helps soften the stress on the crankshaft. After awhile it eventually wears down the ramps and the telltale “clunk” when starting the engine, or sudden deceleration occurs.

 

[Panda87]

It’s a spring loaded three ramp item at the left side of the engine crank. It softens the pulses to the transmission (since the v-twin fires at 270* intervals, you have power strokes that are unequal per revolution). It has a sprocket on it that runs a chain to the clutch basket/transmission. Behind it is the stator. Everytime you throttle up or down it rides on the ramps and helps soften the stress on the crankshaft. After awhile it eventually wears down the ramps and the telltale “clunk” when starting the engine, or sudden deceleration occurs.

View attachment 273786View attachment 273787View attachment 273788

You’re the best. I looked this info up, but none of it really explained it as well as you have. It makes sense now. I can pay attention to that and know what behavior points to that part. So I’m assuming that a higher power bike beats on the compensator more than stock output?

 

[Propflux01]

You’re the best. I looked this info up, but none of it really explained it as well as you have. It makes sense now. I can pay attention to that and know what behavior points to that part. So I’m assuming that a higher power bike beats on the compensator more than stock output?

Pretty much. If you look at the three spokes and ramp in the pictures, the spokes ride in the ramps, when you have those choppy idles, those spokes bang back and forth on the ramps. It’s not so much the power output, than it is the back and forth motion. Most of the time they will last quite awhile with no problems. Some people eliminate them in favor of a “solid sprocket”, which transfers the pulses directly to the crankshaft and eventually creates more issues. On a stock bike comps will last a long time, and of course, how the bike is ridden also affects longevity. In this pic you can see the wear of a comp that’s pretty much trashed.

 

[Panda87]

Pretty much. If you look at the three spokes and ramp in the pictures, the spokes ride in the ramps, when you have those choppy idles, those spokes bang back and forth on the ramps. It’s not so much the power output, than it is the back and forth motion. Most of the time they will last quite awhile with no problems. Some people eliminate them in favor of a “solid sprocket”, which transfers the pulses directly to the crankshaft and eventually creates more issues. On a stock bike comps will last a long time, and of course, how the bike is ridden also affects longevity. In this pic you can see the wear of a comp that’s pretty much trashed.

View attachment 273800

Looks flat in the valleys and the ramp peaks look “sharp”. I’m guessing the same wear pattern you see on neglected drive and driven sprockets on chain bikes shows there on the compensator. Cool stuff! Now I won’t feel so ignorant of it when it’s being discussed.

 

[Propflux01]

Glad to help!