Looking at the specs, it is clearly less viscous than 5-30, 5-20 and 10-30 at 100c. With a VI of 128.
So the HTHS is greater than 3.0?
Thats great, but I my thick skull is still having a hard time comprehending why that is better for a turbo engine that specs 30 grade.
Especially if they are buying hpl anyway, so why not buy the 10w30 or 5w30?
Looking at the specs, it is clearly less viscous than 5-30, 5-20 and 10-30 at 100c. With a VI of 128.
So from that spreadsheet, the HPL 10W30 PCMO has HTFS of 3.0 cP. Why not use that?
How accurate are the calculated values in that spreadsheet?
Did you calculate these values? That 10W-20 HTFS looks almost identical to Red Line 5W-30 if memory serves. The Red Line additive package is kind of antiquated ... If memory servesHere's the HTFS for the 10W-20 compared to common 5W-30 and 10W-30 oils.
Did you calculate these values? That 10W-20 HTFS looks almost identical to Red Line 5W-30 if memory serves. The Red Line additive package is kind of antiquated ... If memory serves
Thank you so much for sharing this information. Your post should be a sticky on here, spreadsheet includedHere's the spreadsheet from Google Docs.
I've always wondered about how VII and fuel don't seem to work well together. Gokhan talked about it in the past. I think that's one reason why Mobil 1 0w30 AFE loses substantial viscosity when there is fuel dilution. There was a recent UOA where it lost 36% of its viscosity in 3k miles.Per the KV100, yes. However, the bearings don't care about kinematic viscosity. They care about dynamic viscosity, particularly at high loads. This is where SAE J300 falls short.
Here's the HTFS for the 10W-20 compared to common 5W-30 and 10W-30 oils.
HPL PCMO 10W-20 = 2.72 cP
HPL PCMO 5W-30 = 2.59 cP
Castrol Edge 5W-30 = 2.26 cP
Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 = 2.48 cP
Pennzoil Plat. 10W-30 = 2.65 cP
Quaker UD 10W-30 = 2.64 cP
Valvoline Adv. 5W-30 = 2.17 cP
Mobil 1 HM 10W-30 = 2.51 cP
That 10W-20 produces a thicker oil film than every one of those 30 grades. That's because it's using a straight 8 cSt base oil and not relying on VII to boost the KV100.
The main reason I recommended the 10W-20 to him is because of the high fuel dilution. VII polymers and fuel dilution don't get along due to the way VII works on viscosity. The viscosity loss from fuel dilution is more drastic when VII is present. In order to ensure good film thickness in the bearings in the face of that dilution, I wanted an oil with no VII. The 10W-20 fit that ticket with the HTHS knocking on 30 grade territory and the HTFS well into (and past) 30 grade territory.
So, are you going to pay for a replacement motor if he has an engine failure, and Mazda denies his warranty because you used a non-approved oil weight in the motor?The main reason I recommended the 10W-20 to him is because of the high fuel dilution. VII polymers and fuel dilution don't get along due to the way VII works on viscosity. The viscosity loss from fuel dilution is more drastic when VII is present. In order to ensure good film thickness in the bearings in the face of that dilution, I wanted an oil with no VII. The 10W-20 fit that ticket with the HTHS knocking on 30 grade territory and the HTFS well into (and past) 30 grade territory.
That's not an ordinary 20 grade. Look at how well it deals with fuel dilution. I bet it stands up well to heat, another issue with Turbo Charged engines.
So, are you going to pay for a replacement motor if he has an engine failure, and Mazda denies his warranty because you used a non-approved oil weight in the motor?
If you were doing this to your own car, it's one thing, but in this case, you're risking someone else's vehicle.
BC.
Is it going to fail? No.His engine isn't going to fail because of a 10W-20. Please read again the post that you quoted, then go look at the UOA.
This isn't directly related to me any sort of way but,this gets old quickly on these forums.Is it going to fail? No.
But recommending non-approved grades and products to a vehicle under warranty carries some liability on your part.
The same people that wait till warantee is up to run an "unapproved" oil are the same ones that say "manufacturers only spec an oil thick enough for the engine to make it just beyond warantee"This isn't directly related to me any sort of way but,this gets old quickly on these forums.
All my life working on cars,race cars etc. Not one time have I experienced an oil related engine failure. I've recommended friends and family oil choices over and over again. Just because there's no "API" symbol on the quart bottles means nothing to me and never will worry about it.
The same people who love giving unsolicited and unnecessary advice. Remember the "MDS Crowd"?The same people that wait till warantee is up to run an "unapproved" oil are the same ones that say "manufacturers only spec an oil thick enough for the engine to make it just beyond warantee"
I did calculate it. It gave me the same result as the spreadsheet.
Redline HP 5W-30 = 2.84 cP
It's also worth noting that Redline HP 5W-20 is 2.65 cP. Some of the 5W-30 oils in the spreadsheet have an HTFS of
Here's the spreadsheet from Google Docs.
*PPPP 5W30 KV100 looks off (I'm guessing should be 9.6 instead of 8.6 ?