2022 Mazda CX-9 - High Performance Lubricants PCMO 10W-20 - 4,897 Miles

[OVERKILL]

Data from my own fleet, and I had thought the A6s, demonstrated otherwise. You answered my question, though, so thank you.

No problem, let me add a bit more info here.

Do you remember seeing some of the older versions of AMSOIL SS thickening in use? It's pretty common, oils with little VII in them will tend to thicken more than the rate of viscosity loss associated with shear, so, as the bases oxidize, this is a normal process. We've seen this same trait with some of the HPL oils with the extended mileage UOA's where the oil has clearly thickened.

Normal oils, that use more "traditional" VII's, tend to balance shear and oxidation so that, ideally, the oil is roughly the same viscosity as it was when it started, or at least that's the goal. If you use more expensive VII's, you end up with oxidation being the primary driver in viscosity change and so you'll see it (viscosity) creep up.

The main impact of fuel in the oil is viscosity loss because of course fuel is quite thin. This may have other effects on the lubricant, such as interactions with the base oils, but nothing is going to "resist" this dilution, it will reduce the viscosity of the base oil blend by virtue of its presence.

So, let's circle back to oxidative thickening. It's quite possible that the bio base oils used in the RLI products interacted with the fuel; that the fuel caused an increase in oxidation, which would then produce a thickening effect. As long as this matched or outpaced the viscosity loss through dilution and shear, then viscosity would appear to remain relatively stable.

 

[DirectRejection]

This subject was brought up at yesterday's HPL panel discussion.

It was stated that add pack depletion occurs with fuel dilution, especially Zinc.

And of course RLI is famous for rapid TBN loss.

 

[BigShug681]

I didn’t read every post but I think from what I did read this is a clear case of @High Performance Lubricants needing to produce a 10w30 that’s also a mono 30 just like the 10w30/SAE30 amsoil produced that was discontinued can Dave make this happen? As Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson said in that rap Video with Tech9 can “they give the people more”

 

[spasm3]

I didn’t read every post but I think from what I did read this is a clear case of @High Performance Lubricants needing to produce a 10w30 that’s also a mono 30 just like the 10w30/SAE30 amsoil produced that was discontinued can Dave make this happen? As Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson said in that rap Video with Tech9 can “they give the people more”

They have an sae 30 that Dave says is a 15w/30 no or little VI.

 

[OVERKILL]

This subject was brought up at yesterday's HPL panel discussion.

It was stated that add pack depletion occurs with fuel dilution, especially Zinc.

And of course RLI is famous for rapid TBN loss.

Excellent. Yes, I suspected that the impact wasn't isolated to just viscosity loss, so good to hear that being confirmed. It also adds some legitimacy to the concerns raised about the impact of heavy levels of dilution on engines like Honda's 1.5L which many seem willing to shrug-off as being "fine".

 

[DirectRejection]

A PhD on the panel who was kind enough to share his time and expertise with us, gave a glimpse into the window of the complexity of the chemistry involved.

The precise form of the various add pack components of a motor oil is vital.

Temperature differences come into play.

 

[bulwnkl]

So, let's circle back to oxidative thickening. It's quite possible that the bio base oils used in the RLI products interacted with the fuel; that the fuel caused an increase in oxidation, which would then produce a thickening effect. As long as this matched or outpaced the viscosity loss through dilution and shear, then viscosity would appear to remain relatively stable.

I’m familiar with the opposing effects of oxidative thickening and permanent shear or fuel dilution. When I referred to my fleet data, I meant the fuel content as measured via GC.

 

[OVERKILL]

I’m familiar with the opposing effects of oxidative thickening and permanent shear or fuel dilution. When I referred to my fleet data, I meant the fuel content as measured via GC.

The problem is that without a controlled study, that kind of inference is risky, but interesting nonetheless. I remember the claims being made at the time for sure.

 

[The Critic]

The problem is that without a controlled study, that kind of inference is risky, but interesting nonetheless. I remember the claims being made at the time for sure.

Supposedly the RLI product had chemistry that would improve ring seal, and therefore, fuel dilution would be reduced.

 

[OVERKILL]

Supposedly the RLI product had chemistry that would improve ring seal, and therefore, fuel dilution would be reduced.

Yes, I remember that claim, but I also don't recall any actual study done to prove it.

 

[bulwnkl]

I’m only aware of field data, not journal publications, but perhaps I should re-phrase my previous question slightly: Is the thought that the HPL product will reduce fuel dilution as demonstrated by GC in fleet field data, or is it simply believed to better mitigate the effects of the same (comparable) amount of dilution?

 

[OVERKILL]

I’m only aware of field data, not journal publications, but perhaps I should re-phrase my previous question slightly: Is the thought that the HPL product will reduce fuel dilution as demonstrated by GC in fleet field data, or is it simply believed to better mitigate the effects of the same (comparable) amount of dilution?

Doubtful, I haven't seen that claim in regard to the HPL oil. But, it does have a tendency to oxidatively thicken a bit in use, so in that sense, it will offset the effects of dilution.

 

[PCRshack]

Any off the Shelf oil at Walmart or equivalent that is in the 5w-30 grade SP rated oil that is has the lowest VII content?

 

[Shel_B]

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