2018 Outlander PHEV 7k Mobil Super Syn 5w-20 SN

[zyxelenator]

It says Durablend for some reason, but I clearly stated that it was Mobil. It must be a mistake on their end.

The engine runs more now, as the battery has more degradation; I also stopped forcing it to go to EV mode and just let it do whatever operational mode it wants. (getting about 15 miles range vs. the original 22). Known problem with those, they have software-induced fake degradation, which seems to make cars think that batteries have lost capacity more than reality. Reset and special procedures via MUT3 software help for a couple of days to recover the range on GOM, but after a couple of days, it slowly goes down to 12-16. Maybe in my case, degradation is real; TX heat and only HVAC battery cooling may not be cutting it. A much older Volt with 100k miles but water-cooled batteries had almost no degradation (32-36 old vs 36-38 new).

Here is UOA; this oil is from my stash and is at least five years old; the labels are yellowed now. I tried to shake it very good before pouring it in. Chevron 5w-20 SN dino oil went in; plan to keep it for 5k.

 

[fantastic]

Al is high. Did they flag it?

 

[zyxelenator]

Al is high. Did they flag it?

Well, green checkmark, so it is ok in their view. AL is definitely higher, probably because of more engine start\stop cycles.
2 first UOAs with Blackstone comments here, when this car drove about 5k miles per year. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2018-outlander-phev-2500miles-magnatec-5w-20.356444/

 

[himemsys]

The sodium is through the roof and the potassium is starting to climb. Those are usually indications of head gasket failure. With the high aluminum, I would check that out soon.

Did you happen to use any additives that would account for the super high sodium?

Also, compared to your older UOAs that you linked to, the iron is pretty high at over 5ppm per 1000 miles. Older UOAs were showing around 1ppm per 1000 miles. I say something is definitely up.

 

[zyxelenator]

The sodium is through the roof and the potassium is starting to climb. Those are usually indications of head gasket failure. With the high aluminum, I would check that out soon.

Did you happen to use any additives that would account for the super high sodium?

Also, compared to your older UOAs that you linked to, the iron is pretty high at over 5ppm per 1000 miles. Older UOAs were showing around 1ppm per 1000 miles. I say something is definitely up.

Nope, no additives lately. But VOA of this oil of about the same vintage shows about the same amount of sodium...

VOA Mobil Super Synthetic 5w20 SN

Mobil super synthetic SN 5w20

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[himemsys]

Nope, no additives lately. But VOA of this oil of about the same vintage shows about the same amount of sodium...

VOA Mobil Super Synthetic 5w20 SN

Mobil super synthetic SN 5w20

bobistheoilguy.com

That’s a relief!

 

[FZ1]

It says Durablend for some reason, but I clearly stated that it was Mobil. It must be a mistake on their end.

The engine runs more now, as the battery has more degradation; I also stopped forcing it to go to EV mode and just let it do whatever operational mode it wants. (getting about 15 miles range vs. the original 22). Known problem with those, they have software-induced fake degradation, which seems to make cars think that batteries have lost capacity more than reality. Reset and special procedures via MUT3 software help for a couple of days to recover the range on GOM, but after a couple of days, it slowly goes down to 12-16. Maybe in my case, degradation is real; TX heat and only HVAC battery cooling may not be cutting it. A much older Volt with 100k miles but water-cooled batteries had almost no degradation (32-36 old vs 36-38 new).

Here is UOA; this oil is from my stash and is at least five years old; the labels are yellowed now. I tried to shake it very good before pouring it in. Chevron 5w-20 SN dino oil went in; plan to keep it for 5k.
View attachment 164157

Good call on the 5k. Maybe try a full syn , next time.

 

[dogememe]

Seems early to have such noticeable degradation guess they’re just as bad as Leafs.

 

[zyxelenator]

Good call on the 5k. Maybe try a full syn , next time.

Yeah, had a last jug of dino oil that has been sitting for a while. Figured I need to use it up first during a warm portion of the year and shorter oci(not that TX is that cold during winter, but can see freezing temps for a couple of weeks).
BTW manual calls for 7500/6 month changes. We will switch back to dual car household this winter, so this car will probably be driven around 5k per year again.

 

[zyxelenator]

Seems early to have such noticeable degradation guess they’re just as bad as Leafs.

A Leaf is even worse, as AC does not cool it... if I'm not mistaken, they don't even have a fan(maybe a fan was added in the last generation), which will not help much if it is 110f outside...
So far, my online research has brought me to various groups that indicate that their algo most likely has a mistake. Also, during that research, I have not seen any post about the battery pack actually failing. The worst part is that Mitsu specifically does not cover battery degradation below 80 or 70% in the US and Canada like others do. But it is covered 100k/10 years from faults. (maybe that is why Algo. prevents battery usage more and more over time to cover their rear ends until warranty expiration).

 

[dogememe]

A Leaf is even worse, as AC does not cool it... if I'm not mistaken, they don't even have a fan(maybe a fan was added in the last generation), which will not help much if it is 110f outside...
So far, my online research has brought me to various groups that indicate that their algo most likely has a mistake. Also, during that research, I have not seen any post about the battery pack actually failing. The worst part is that Mitsu specifically does not cover battery degradation below 80 or 70% in the US and Canada like others do. But it is covered 100k/10 years from faults. (maybe that is why Algo. prevents battery usage more and more over time to cover their rear ends until warranty expiration)

Hmm, I’d think if it was a known software bug they could update it?

 

[fantastic]

Well, green checkmark, so it is ok in their view. AL is definitely higher, probably because of more engine start\stop cycles.
2 first UOAs with Blackstone comments here, when this car drove about 5k miles per year. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2018-outlander-phev-2500miles-magnatec-5w-20.356444/

You brought up a point I'd not thought about. However, Based on your previous UOA it appears this issue is new (This UOA). Your Al has doubled in it's wear rate vs the previous one shown here. If we used the previous UOA Al rate as an example & applied the mileage of this new one it should've come out around 10.64 PPM Al but it was 22 so It's doubled. Unless, you've done some really serious stop & go way more on this ODI than the previous ones then I suspect it may be a sign. We can speculate that the Al is coming from the rings but not certain. I'm not trying to be an alarmist & retesting in the future may show a trend or not. Thanks for sharing!

 

[zyxelenator]

Hmm, I’d think if it was a known software bug they could update it?

Folks in Europe and Australia complained a lot, and Mitsu just refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem. Without official confirmation, so far it is all just observation and speculation based on what users around the globe can observe and see/try in MUT3 software.

 

[zyxelenator]

You brought up a point I'd not thought about. However, Based on your previous UOA it appears this issue is new (This UOA). Your Al has doubled in it's wear rate vs the previous one shown here. If we used the previous UOA Al rate as an example & applied the mileage of this new one it should've come out around 10.64 PPM Al but it was 22 so It's doubled. Unless, you've done some really serious stop & go way more on this ODI than the previous ones then I suspect it may be a sign. We can speculate that the Al is coming from the rings but not certain. I'm not trying to be an alarmist & retesting in the future may show a trend or not. Thanks for sharing!

I would say that that pattern of car usage changed a lot during that oci. I barely used the engine before, running around 70+% in EV mode all the time. Now this car became a daily driver and a single car in the household. We shall see what next uoa will show. If I remember correctly Mobil was known here to show more Fe (Or Al years ago, don't recall which one at the moment ) in most UOAs. It will be interesting if current fill with Chevron will show lower number for Al and Fe, and I can put back same Mobil super syn back for OCI after that, still have 8qt left in stash.

 

[fantastic]

I would say that that pattern of car usage changed a lot during that oci. I barely used the engine before, running around 70+% in EV mode all the time. Now this car became a daily driver and a single car in the household. We shall see what next uoa will show. If I remember correctly Mobil was known here to show more Fe (Or Al years ago, don't recall which one at the moment ) in most UOAs. It will be interesting if current fill with Chevron will show lower number for Al and Fe, and I can put back same Mobil super syn back for OCI after that, still have 8qt left in stash.

Thanks for the info. I remember, I think it was Shell Rotella, had come out with a 15w-30 for "Stop & Go" fleet trucks. It was trucks that were shut off for short periods of time & then fired back up. These were to be used in place of lower visc oils. Anyways, it just makes me think of that oil in your situation & perhaps a 10w-30 would be lower wear during startup? Most of those starts/stop cycles on your car aren't going to be from a cold start. Just thinking out loud & passing it on. Thanks!

 

[zyxelenator]

Thanks for the info. I remember, I think it was Shell Rotella, had come out with a 15w-30 for "Stop & Go" fleet trucks. It was trucks that were shut off for short periods of time & then fired back up. These were to be used in place of lower visc oils. Anyways, it just makes me think of that oil in your situation & perhaps a 10w-30 would be lower wear during startup? Most of those starts/stop cycles on your car aren't going to be from a cold start. Just thinking out loud & passing it on. Thanks!

I would say half of them could be— Engine fired up, and within 5 mins I got home… Prior to change in use case of car, that would be the case in 80% of engine starts(hence pretty significant fuel dilution and not many miles driven in the first 2 UOAs). Now, at least twice a week, car has to use engine to get me back home from work, so for 30 miles per week it acts as normal hybrid at the min. Prior to that it was just a grocery getter within EV range and a kid hauler/trip car(in that case trips several times per year somewhere 70+ miles or longer).
P.S. I plan to use 5w-30 Oils that I have in stash also, once I hit 5y.o. or 60k. Manual calls for 30 grade oil for those in EU and maybe even 40 in Australia (need to check again) for the same engine.

 

[addyguy]

For 7k, that is aweful….the Na is an additive in the older oil, but the Al at 22 would scare me - that is major bearing wear on Al bearings!
With Si relatively high, I’d be checking for dirt getting past the air filter leading to abrasive wear.
I’d move to 3k drains on this old oil to flush out debris, and just not push the oil too far.

 

[zyxelenator]

For 7k, that is aweful….the Na is an additive in the older oil, but the Al at 22 would scare me - that is major bearing wear on Al bearings!
With Si relatively high, I’d be checking for dirt getting past the air filter leading to abrasive wear.
I’d move to 3k drains on this old oil to flush out debris, and just not push the oil too far.

I will take a look at air filter. But I did check it at the start of Durablend OCI (the one prior to that). It looked almost brand new, so I left it in place. Cabin filter was significantly dirty, so that one got replaced at that time.

 

[zyxelenator]

I will take a look at air filter. But I did check it at the start of Durablend OCI (the one prior to that). It looked almost brand new, so I left it in place. Cabin filter was significantly dirty, so that one got replaced at that time.

Looked at the air filter yesterday, still pretty clean, some dead bugs there, can easily go a couple more ocis. Filter box housing seems to latch tight and properly.