Bought a 2016 Tiguan today. 30k mile lease return. It was bought and serviced at the same dealer since new. 10k interval. I haven't paid much attention about the gas direct injection issues until today. I heard that this vehicle has the habit of coking the back of intake valves. My question is which oil to use to minimize this effect and what other tips to try to keep the carbon at bay as much as possible. I believe the factory fill is a 5W40 502 VW spec.
2016 VW Tiguan 2.0L Gas engine.
- Thread starter sloinker
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VW "recommends" Castrol 5W-40 Euro formula with a 502 or 504 spec. Of course, there are many other good choices. (LiquiMoly, Amsoil)
I believe that low Noack is helpful in reducing intake valve deposits.
as a recent purchaser of a VW myself, based on my research, I intend to
1) clean the valves annually with CRC intake valve/turbo cleaner
2) prepare for the day (somewhere between 60k & 100k) where I might have to have the valves cleaned (or do it myself) with a walnut shell blaster.
If you simply plan for the expense, you wont be surprised if it happens.
Also, from what I can tell from a VW technical training video, (and my interpretation could be wrong) it seems that the 502 spec is not good enough for 10k OCI. I saw a reference to 10k km. the 504 spec is the "long life" spec intended for 10k OCI's.
I believe that low Noack is helpful in reducing intake valve deposits.
as a recent purchaser of a VW myself, based on my research, I intend to
1) clean the valves annually with CRC intake valve/turbo cleaner
2) prepare for the day (somewhere between 60k & 100k) where I might have to have the valves cleaned (or do it myself) with a walnut shell blaster.
If you simply plan for the expense, you wont be surprised if it happens.
Also, from what I can tell from a VW technical training video, (and my interpretation could be wrong) it seems that the 502 spec is not good enough for 10k OCI. I saw a reference to 10k km. the 504 spec is the "long life" spec intended for 10k OCI's.
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Originally Posted by tomcat27
VW "recommends" Castrol 5W-40 Euro formula with a 502 or 504 spec. Of course, there are many other good choices. (LiquiMoly, Amsoil)
I believe that low Noack is helpful in reducing intake valve deposits.
as a recent purchaser of a VW myself, based on my research, I intend to
1) clean the valves annually with CRC intake valve/turbo cleaner
2) prepare for the day (somewhere between 60k & 100k) where I might have to have the valves cleaned (or do it myself) with a walnut shell blaster.
If you simply plan for the expense, you wont be surprised if it happens.
Also, from what I can tell from a VW technical training video, (and my interpretation could be wrong) it seems that the 502 spec is not good enough for 10k OCI. I saw a reference to 10k km. the 504 spec is the "long life" spec intended for 10k OCI's.
There is NO such thing as 5W40 VW 504.00. VW504.00/507.00 specification is only 0/5W30.
VW "recommends" Castrol 5W-40 Euro formula with a 502 or 504 spec. Of course, there are many other good choices. (LiquiMoly, Amsoil)
I believe that low Noack is helpful in reducing intake valve deposits.
as a recent purchaser of a VW myself, based on my research, I intend to
1) clean the valves annually with CRC intake valve/turbo cleaner
2) prepare for the day (somewhere between 60k & 100k) where I might have to have the valves cleaned (or do it myself) with a walnut shell blaster.
If you simply plan for the expense, you wont be surprised if it happens.
Also, from what I can tell from a VW technical training video, (and my interpretation could be wrong) it seems that the 502 spec is not good enough for 10k OCI. I saw a reference to 10k km. the 504 spec is the "long life" spec intended for 10k OCI's.
There is NO such thing as 5W40 VW 504.00. VW504.00/507.00 specification is only 0/5W30.
Here is a link to a list of approved oil from Audi: https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...Technical-Service-Bulletin-1.22.2018.pdf
Originally Posted by sloinker
Bought a 2016 Tiguan today. 30k mile lease return. It was bought and serviced at the same dealer since new. 10k interval. I haven't paid much attention about the gas direct injection issues until today. I heard that this vehicle has the habit of coking the back of intake valves. My question is which oil to use to minimize this effect and what other tips to try to keep the carbon at bay as much as possible. I believe the factory fill is a 5W40 502 VW spec.
Factory fill in those engines is probably Castrol 0W30. Dealers use usually Castrol 5W40 Professional due to the dye in that oil so it is easier to spot oil leaks. But, it is unremarkable oil in every aspect.
Some dealers use Valvoline 5W40, some Mobil1 0W40 FS, some Pennzoil Platinum 5W40. As long as oil is approved for VW 502.00, it is good.
Most favorite oil among Euro owners currently is Castrol 0W40, and it is step above Castrol 5W40 (not because of 0W).
EA888 in your Tiguan (same engine as in mine) is only recommended for VW502.00 and not VW504.00, although in some states (primarily CA) VW504.00 probably will be fine.
Things to pay attention:
1. Good oil, use Castrol 0W40 or generally oil that besides VW502.00 approval has MB229.5 approval.
2. PCV! Go on youtube and find VW 2.0T PCV. It has distinctive sound when goes bad. It is around $190, not big deal to change it, BUT (number 3).
3. Rear main seal! If you do not change PCV in time, rear main seal will go away. It seems that VW designed rear main seal as fail/safe so that bad PCV does not create bigger issues.
It could be that on 2016 PCV is redesigned. Also, in mid 2012 VW redesigned chain tensioner so do not worry about it since you will read A LOT about VW 2.0T and chain tensioner (I installed updated one on my own to prevent engine going south).
4. Once car is warmed (engines in Tiguan reach operating temperature super fast), drive it aggressively. In conjunction with good oil, best way to prevent deposits.
5. Change Haldex fluid at 40k
6. Change transmission fluid and filter at 60K.
Mine has 75k and only had ventilation relay bad. that is it. It s fun little CUV and hardly anything in that class will catch up with it on mountain roads. It is really, really good in snow with snow tires, but be aware, while AWD is really good while going, once you are stuck it is not Audi, Subaru etc.
Bought a 2016 Tiguan today. 30k mile lease return. It was bought and serviced at the same dealer since new. 10k interval. I haven't paid much attention about the gas direct injection issues until today. I heard that this vehicle has the habit of coking the back of intake valves. My question is which oil to use to minimize this effect and what other tips to try to keep the carbon at bay as much as possible. I believe the factory fill is a 5W40 502 VW spec.
Factory fill in those engines is probably Castrol 0W30. Dealers use usually Castrol 5W40 Professional due to the dye in that oil so it is easier to spot oil leaks. But, it is unremarkable oil in every aspect.
Some dealers use Valvoline 5W40, some Mobil1 0W40 FS, some Pennzoil Platinum 5W40. As long as oil is approved for VW 502.00, it is good.
Most favorite oil among Euro owners currently is Castrol 0W40, and it is step above Castrol 5W40 (not because of 0W).
EA888 in your Tiguan (same engine as in mine) is only recommended for VW502.00 and not VW504.00, although in some states (primarily CA) VW504.00 probably will be fine.
Things to pay attention:
1. Good oil, use Castrol 0W40 or generally oil that besides VW502.00 approval has MB229.5 approval.
2. PCV! Go on youtube and find VW 2.0T PCV. It has distinctive sound when goes bad. It is around $190, not big deal to change it, BUT (number 3).
3. Rear main seal! If you do not change PCV in time, rear main seal will go away. It seems that VW designed rear main seal as fail/safe so that bad PCV does not create bigger issues.
It could be that on 2016 PCV is redesigned. Also, in mid 2012 VW redesigned chain tensioner so do not worry about it since you will read A LOT about VW 2.0T and chain tensioner (I installed updated one on my own to prevent engine going south).
4. Once car is warmed (engines in Tiguan reach operating temperature super fast), drive it aggressively. In conjunction with good oil, best way to prevent deposits.
5. Change Haldex fluid at 40k
6. Change transmission fluid and filter at 60K.
Mine has 75k and only had ventilation relay bad. that is it. It s fun little CUV and hardly anything in that class will catch up with it on mountain roads. It is really, really good in snow with snow tires, but be aware, while AWD is really good while going, once you are stuck it is not Audi, Subaru etc.
Originally Posted by tomcat27
Here is a link to a list of approved oil from Audi: https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...Technical-Service-Bulletin-1.22.2018.pdf
Did you notice that all 504.00 oils are W30?
Also, while list helps, take into consideration that on the list for North American market are oils that are discontinued like 10 years ago!
Here is a link to a list of approved oil from Audi: https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...Technical-Service-Bulletin-1.22.2018.pdf
Did you notice that all 504.00 oils are W30?
Also, while list helps, take into consideration that on the list for North American market are oils that are discontinued like 10 years ago!
Changing the oil often will do more for intake valve deposits than any one oil over another. Pick a cheap, readily available oil that's approved and change every 3-5k. Cleaning the intake valves is essentially a maintenance schedule item on most GDIs unfortunately.
I have a gti with the ea888 2.0L in it. It appears that people had tried many things to reduce intake valve deposits, but none of them worked 100%. One thing that may work 100%, but isn't available yet, isnfual injection. The latest EA888 is machined to accommodate dual injection. However VW hasn't decided to adopt the design yet. I heard some Audi versions do have dual injection now but haven't paid enough attention to which one has it.
The symptoms will slowly appear and eventually cause misfires and no engine start. My plan is to get the walnut blast done when I start feeling power reduction, or every 60k miles if I am lucky enough to not feel anything by 60k. At the rate I am driving it, it will take 9-10 years to get to 60K. The average cost for a walnut blast is $4-500, so not too bad at all.
One of the theories is that the problem gets worse if the car is driven harder. If that's the case, I will see the problems well before 60k miles, as I call on all the ponies from my little engine quite often.
The symptoms will slowly appear and eventually cause misfires and no engine start. My plan is to get the walnut blast done when I start feeling power reduction, or every 60k miles if I am lucky enough to not feel anything by 60k. At the rate I am driving it, it will take 9-10 years to get to 60K. The average cost for a walnut blast is $4-500, so not too bad at all.
One of the theories is that the problem gets worse if the car is driven harder. If that's the case, I will see the problems well before 60k miles, as I call on all the ponies from my little engine quite often.
Originally Posted by tomcat27
VW "recommends" Castrol 5W-40 Euro formula with a 502 or 504 spec. Of course, there are many other good choices. (LiquiMoly, Amsoil)
I believe that low Noack is helpful in reducing intake valve deposits.
as a recent purchaser of a VW myself, based on my research, I intend to
1) clean the valves annually with CRC intake valve/turbo cleaner
2) prepare for the day (somewhere between 60k & 100k) where I might have to have the valves cleaned (or do it myself) with a walnut shell blaster.
If you simply plan for the expense, you wont be surprised if it happens.
Also, from what I can tell from a VW technical training video, (and my interpretation could be wrong) it seems that the 502 spec is not good enough for 10k OCI. I saw a reference to 10k km. the 504 spec is the "long life" spec intended for 10k OCI's.
Your interpretation is wrong.
504 spec is meant to supercede all the 502 and 503 specs, provided that the gasoline has 10 ppm max average sulfur, which was implemented in the EPA regs in 2017, but have to wait for the industry to catch up and all the states to catch up in their requirements
Historically:
502.00 is the fixed interval spec
503.00 & 503.01 is the flexible service interval, which is up to 30,000 km.
VW "recommends" Castrol 5W-40 Euro formula with a 502 or 504 spec. Of course, there are many other good choices. (LiquiMoly, Amsoil)
I believe that low Noack is helpful in reducing intake valve deposits.
as a recent purchaser of a VW myself, based on my research, I intend to
1) clean the valves annually with CRC intake valve/turbo cleaner
2) prepare for the day (somewhere between 60k & 100k) where I might have to have the valves cleaned (or do it myself) with a walnut shell blaster.
If you simply plan for the expense, you wont be surprised if it happens.
Also, from what I can tell from a VW technical training video, (and my interpretation could be wrong) it seems that the 502 spec is not good enough for 10k OCI. I saw a reference to 10k km. the 504 spec is the "long life" spec intended for 10k OCI's.
Your interpretation is wrong.
504 spec is meant to supercede all the 502 and 503 specs, provided that the gasoline has 10 ppm max average sulfur, which was implemented in the EPA regs in 2017, but have to wait for the industry to catch up and all the states to catch up in their requirements
Historically:
502.00 is the fixed interval spec
503.00 & 503.01 is the flexible service interval, which is up to 30,000 km.
Theres not too much to do to mitigate the carbon buildup, just put the $500 away for the cleaning and wait for the symptoms. Might be a good time to change out the water pump and thermostat since the manifold comes off anyway. Online there are metal housings that replace the OE plastic that people have had great luck with.
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Changing the oil often will do more for intake valve deposits than any one oil over another.
Deep down, I really wonder if this is really true or not... let's think about this objectively. New oil has a NOACK of 10%. Put it in use, and the stuff that is going to vaporize off goes away... and so therefore an older oil should theoretically have a lower NOACK than a brand new one, as long as it hasn't been excessively contaminated with fuel.
This may be why VAG recommends 10k OCIs even when they know their engines are hard on oil- because changing the oil every 3k may actually exacerbate the problems people think they are fixing with short OCIs!
Changing the oil often will do more for intake valve deposits than any one oil over another.
Deep down, I really wonder if this is really true or not... let's think about this objectively. New oil has a NOACK of 10%. Put it in use, and the stuff that is going to vaporize off goes away... and so therefore an older oil should theoretically have a lower NOACK than a brand new one, as long as it hasn't been excessively contaminated with fuel.
This may be why VAG recommends 10k OCIs even when they know their engines are hard on oil- because changing the oil every 3k may actually exacerbate the problems people think they are fixing with short OCIs!
So if I say use a low NOACK like a Ravenol or Red Line that meets the 502 specification in a 5W40 or 5W30, possibly run a couple cans of BG a year through the fuel system, keep an eye on the PCV valve it may mitigate the time until failure. Will a catch can make any positive differenece? How about a low saps oil? Less ash in combustion I know but possibly less evaporated oil too?
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Changing the oil often will do more for intake valve deposits than any one oil over another.
Deep down, I really wonder if this is really true or not... let's think about this objectively. New oil has a NOACK of 10%. Put it in use, and the stuff that is going to vaporize off goes away... and so therefore an older oil should theoretically have a lower NOACK than a brand new one, as long as it hasn't been excessively contaminated with fuel.
This may be why VAG recommends 10k OCIs even when they know their engines are hard on oil- because changing the oil every 3k may actually exacerbate the problems people think they are fixing with short OCIs!
The 10k from VW I think is because they don't want to appear to the public that it costs more in maintenance to own a VW , and to be more earth friendly . It's not the clean oil sticking to the valves it's the junk in the oil , carbon . Longer OCI more carbon in oil more carbon on valves . Maybe I'm looking at it to simply but I don't think so . I have slight carbon on my 2015 Jetta Gen3 1.8t at 53k
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Changing the oil often will do more for intake valve deposits than any one oil over another.
Deep down, I really wonder if this is really true or not... let's think about this objectively. New oil has a NOACK of 10%. Put it in use, and the stuff that is going to vaporize off goes away... and so therefore an older oil should theoretically have a lower NOACK than a brand new one, as long as it hasn't been excessively contaminated with fuel.
This may be why VAG recommends 10k OCIs even when they know their engines are hard on oil- because changing the oil every 3k may actually exacerbate the problems people think they are fixing with short OCIs!
The 10k from VW I think is because they don't want to appear to the public that it costs more in maintenance to own a VW , and to be more earth friendly . It's not the clean oil sticking to the valves it's the junk in the oil , carbon . Longer OCI more carbon in oil more carbon on valves . Maybe I'm looking at it to simply but I don't think so . I have slight carbon on my 2015 Jetta Gen3 1.8t at 53k
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Originally Posted by Kjmack
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Changing the oil often will do more for intake valve deposits than any one oil over another.
Deep down, I really wonder if this is really true or not... let's think about this objectively. New oil has a NOACK of 10%. Put it in use, and the stuff that is going to vaporize off goes away... and so therefore an older oil should theoretically have a lower NOACK than a brand new one, as long as it hasn't been excessively contaminated with fuel.
This may be why VAG recommends 10k OCIs even when they know their engines are hard on oil- because changing the oil every 3k may actually exacerbate the problems people think they are fixing with short OCIs!
The 10k from VW I think is because they don't want to appear to the public that it costs more in maintenance to own a VW , and to be more earth friendly . It's not the clean oil sticking to the valves it's the junk in the oil , carbon . Longer OCI more carbon in oil more carbon on valves . Maybe I'm looking at it to simply but I don't think so .
A big contributor is the valve timing overlap, it is done to mimick an EGR valve. So you have excess carbon from the incomplete combustion of the air-fuel mixture (which is also caused by improper spray of the fuel injectors, so you need to keep them clean), also compounded by the sulfur in the gas.
If particular matter in the oil is the real issue, then diesels would have extensive issues with carbon buildup on the valves, since as soon as you start a diesel engine after an oil change, the oil becomes black instantly, however though, when intake buildup was an issue on TDI's, where the buildup as at the EGR and on the intake manifold, the aftermarket solutions were to remove the EGR or modify the EGR pulse width modulation. But with the introduction of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, the soot issue was reduced dramatically.
You don't hear these issues in Europe with the FSI/TSI/TFSI engines because they have the 10 ppm gas already.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Changing the oil often will do more for intake valve deposits than any one oil over another.
Deep down, I really wonder if this is really true or not... let's think about this objectively. New oil has a NOACK of 10%. Put it in use, and the stuff that is going to vaporize off goes away... and so therefore an older oil should theoretically have a lower NOACK than a brand new one, as long as it hasn't been excessively contaminated with fuel.
This may be why VAG recommends 10k OCIs even when they know their engines are hard on oil- because changing the oil every 3k may actually exacerbate the problems people think they are fixing with short OCIs!
The 10k from VW I think is because they don't want to appear to the public that it costs more in maintenance to own a VW , and to be more earth friendly . It's not the clean oil sticking to the valves it's the junk in the oil , carbon . Longer OCI more carbon in oil more carbon on valves . Maybe I'm looking at it to simply but I don't think so .
A big contributor is the valve timing overlap, it is done to mimick an EGR valve. So you have excess carbon from the incomplete combustion of the air-fuel mixture (which is also caused by improper spray of the fuel injectors, so you need to keep them clean), also compounded by the sulfur in the gas.
If particular matter in the oil is the real issue, then diesels would have extensive issues with carbon buildup on the valves, since as soon as you start a diesel engine after an oil change, the oil becomes black instantly, however though, when intake buildup was an issue on TDI's, where the buildup as at the EGR and on the intake manifold, the aftermarket solutions were to remove the EGR or modify the EGR pulse width modulation. But with the introduction of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, the soot issue was reduced dramatically.
You don't hear these issues in Europe with the FSI/TSI/TFSI engines because they have the 10 ppm gas already.
Originally Posted by sloinker
So if I say use a low NOACK like a Ravenol or Red Line that meets the 502 specification in a 5W40 or 5W30, possibly run a couple cans of BG a year through the fuel system, keep an eye on the PCV valve it may mitigate the time until failure. Will a catch can make any positive differenece? How about a low saps oil? Less ash in combustion I know but possibly less evaporated oil too?
Stay AWAY from Redline! Redline claims to meet, but it is NOT approved. You want approved oil, not oil that "meets" or "exceeds." Redline actually sent oils for approvals, but developed completely different line up to be approved, and they are mediocre at best.
Just because Redline oil has low NOACK, dos not mean CBU will be mitigated. Question is composition of additives and what kind of deposits they leave.
That is why always get approved oil, and best bet is Castrol 0W40, and also best bang for a buck.
So if I say use a low NOACK like a Ravenol or Red Line that meets the 502 specification in a 5W40 or 5W30, possibly run a couple cans of BG a year through the fuel system, keep an eye on the PCV valve it may mitigate the time until failure. Will a catch can make any positive differenece? How about a low saps oil? Less ash in combustion I know but possibly less evaporated oil too?
Stay AWAY from Redline! Redline claims to meet, but it is NOT approved. You want approved oil, not oil that "meets" or "exceeds." Redline actually sent oils for approvals, but developed completely different line up to be approved, and they are mediocre at best.
Just because Redline oil has low NOACK, dos not mean CBU will be mitigated. Question is composition of additives and what kind of deposits they leave.
That is why always get approved oil, and best bet is Castrol 0W40, and also best bang for a buck.
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Kjmack said:
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Kjmack said:
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Kjmack said:
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