2014 Dodge Dart SXT

[jimbrewer]

Well, I wouldn't generalize too much. The new Chrysler 200 is apparently a good car. (Brand new factory, I understand). To be fair, I didn't see anything on Truedelta about the 2014 Dart which is a good sign. Still, its probably unrealistic to think that a car could go from a complete wipe out on the quality department to OK in one year.

I'd maybe take a chance on a 2015 where I would ordinarily be looking for a 2014. A lease is a safe bet of course. With so many good cars out there though, its not like you have to take a chance.

 

[itguy08]

I'd not use True Delta to wipe my butt. Unless they changed their "ratings", every trip to the shop was given the same weight. However there is a lot of difference between a trip for a squeak, rattle, sensor, or other minor thing vs a trip for major things like engines and transmissions.

However most (of not all) companies that rate quality and dependibility rate Chrysler corp at or near the bottom. That's not generalization, but facts from those that churn the data.

Look at this recent suvey from CR:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2014/...ity-report.html
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/10/prweb12277286.htm

Note where Chrysler Corp. vehicles fall.... Hint: It ain't the top or middle!

I know this angers Mopar fans as "this is the year they clean up their act". Yet, they have been in this place since, well they were founded. They needed government bailouts TWICE. You don't get that honor by building good vehicles!

 

[jimbrewer]

I'd take any rating service with a large grain of salt and pay most attention to extreme ratings---and this certainly is that. Truedelta also gives a complaint by complaint read out if you are interested. They publish a result with as few as 25 cars for which they are are criticized. Still, its 25X better than "My brother-in-law...." It doesn't sound like its minor stuff. Again, we agree: In this day and age who needs to take such a chance?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
The new Chrysler 200 is apparently a good car. (Brand new factory, I understand). Still, its probably unrealistic to think that a car could go from a complete wipe out on the quality department to OK in one year.



Why not? Everything is different. Management, funding, production, it's all new.

And the real fact is stats only apply to a GROUP, not an individual car.

I have owned many Mopars that were rock solid. My current fav is Mopar, and I own 2 now. And that car in my sig has 100k miles and has had 7 sets of tires, over 200 dragstrip passes and countless road course days. In over 40 years of racing I have NEVER had another car as durable under such usage, and I guarantee you that ITguy's Ford would have blown up by now.

How's that for statistics? It's completely irrelevant what the so-called "experts" say unless you imagine buying a car as similar to a trip to Vegas perhaps.

Both my newer Mopars were delivered with ZERO defects. I can't say that about ANY OTHER CAR in a rather large stable of mostly GM but other makes as well...

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
The new Chrysler 200 is apparently a good car. (Brand new factory, I understand). Still, its probably unrealistic to think that a car could go from a complete wipe out on the quality department to OK in one year.



Why not? Everything is different. Management, funding, production, it's all new.

And the real fact is stats only apply to a GROUP, not an individual car.

I have owned many Mopars that were rock solid. My current fav is Mopar, and I own 2 now. And that car in my sig has 100k miles and has had 7 sets of tires, over 200 dragstrip passes and countless road course days. In over 40 years of racing I have NEVER had another car as durable under such usage, and I guarantee you that ITguy's Ford would have blown up by now.

How's that for statistics? It's completely irrelevant what the so-called "experts" say unless you imagine buying a car as similar to a trip to Vegas perhaps.

Both my newer Mopars were delivered with ZERO defects. I can't say that about ANY OTHER CAR in a rather large stable of mostly GM but other makes as well...


I've neverbbought a new car but I have owned some very low mileage ones. And some very high mileage ones too.
Let me start by saying I'm a mustang guy but before mustangs I had a 99 firebird. 6 speed,tire shredding torque and a total piece of carp quality wise.
Trim pieces falling off,paint peel. I sold it while I could still get a decent buck for it then bought a 92 cobra.
The cobra was way better build than the firebird. Period.
I got a higher mile ram hemi a few years ago. I totalled it at 280k and mechanically it was perfect. Build quality excellent. And I'm not a dodge guy but I was very impressed with the durability of the hemi which is why I bought my charger.
My charger is nearing 90000 miles now and I beat that car like a red headed step child and it just keeps coming back for more,so I've gotta agree with Steve here.
And since 1989!my dad has has been buying dodge Rams.
His 89 went over 450k before it wasn't worth fixing anymore,his 95 was totalled at 450k,his 01 is in my brothers driveway with 400k,his 08 currently is driven everyday and has 250k on it,his 2012 is being driven by my uncle and has over 200k so far and he's currently driving a 2014.
All of these trucks never had the engines opened up,got nothing more than routine maintenance and as far as quality is concerned all the systems work as designed. Windows,door locks,stereo system,transmission,4x4 systems,all are working just fine.
So as you can see my family has a lot of dodge experience and from experience with a long list of different platforms not one quality issue was ever experienced.
So when i read posts about dodge being low quality I just laugh. I've seen many trucks get passed on to family members and I've not seen a single quality issue.
And my charger lives up to the quality I've come to expect from dodge based on my experience with them.
Sure I believe Chrysler has built some lemons over the years. The cloud cars and so on but from what I've seen the hemi is a winner. My dad has put a million miles on the 5.7's and they keep on running.
Haters gonna hate. They hate based on preconceived notions that are usually wrong and don't have the mind to see with open eyes.
Their loss.
Charger hellcat anyone?

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
My current fav is Mopar, and I own 2 now. And that car in my sig has 100k miles and has had 7 sets of tires, over 200 dragstrip passes and countless road course days. In over 40 years of racing I have NEVER had another car as durable under such usage, and I guarantee you that ITguy's Ford would have blown up by now.


I'm confused. You don't want people to make generalizations about Mopar products, so you in turn make one about Fords. I don't think that was the best way to present your case.

For the record, I think Ford and Mopar both make solid cars.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Why not? Everything is different. Management, funding, production, it's all new.


We've heard that same old song and dance from Mopar guys since Fiat took over. When is it going to change? Cause the 2011's are still junk. And they are the ones that are supposed to turn it around. Heck, Consumer Reports gushed about the Ram and it got bumped off the list because it's.... UNRELIABLE!

Quote:
My current fav is Mopar, and I own 2 now. And that car in my sig has 100k miles and has had 7 sets of tires, over 200 dragstrip passes and countless road course days. In over 40 years of racing I have NEVER had another car as durable under such usage, and I guarantee you that ITguy's Ford would have blown up by now.


This from the guy that was rebuilding his transmission the other month due to it slipping? http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3463592/1

I wouldn't brag on that as far as reliability when you are replacing transmissions.

There are a few guys racing SHOs and Flex'es and few failures. The drivetrain is pretty stout for what it is. With today's torque management an auto holds up well if you keep up with maintenance. Heck, when the EB units came out, Ford even held a few events at a drag strips. But I'd not track an SHO - to large and heavy for that. And only an idiot would track a truck or SUV.

I guarantee you a Mustang (closest to your SRT8) would also hold up quite well to such "harsh" use. There are thousands of them doing just that day in and day out! Same with Camaros.

Quote:
How's that for statistics? It's completely irrelevant what the so-called "experts" say unless you imagine buying a car as similar to a trip to Vegas perhaps.


Considering they see far more units than you and I, I'll take their word. Now if one says one thing and another says different we have a problem. But when they all say roughly the same thing you have to start trusting in what they say as it may be true.

I could buy car A which is exceptional, car B which is average, or car C which is well below average. Which would you pick? Cause I'd go with A or B - your odds of putting on many trouble free miles are better. And when a car is most likely your 2nd largest purchase, you want to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible. It's great that you love your Mopars but the facts are that they are not reliable vehicles long term and the majority of places that track such things say the same thing...

 

[jimbrewer]

Well, I certainly am not anti-mopar--a couple of weeks ago I ran into the guy currently driving my 1989 ram charger--he loves it. Still, I'd pay attention at the extremes.

 

[SteveSRT8]

itguy08

First of all, if you can remember details during your Mopar knocking [censored] (don't have time to count all your posts about it!) you will recall that my transmission was rebuilt VOLUNTARILY. Many folks would never have done it at all, it was not noticeable to most. It simply did not fail, nor was it about to. Plus I had a wonderful 3400 stall TC that was waiting in the wings and wanted to install it anyway, and the trans has to come out to do that. I always tend to be proactive as I have a huge stable here that you cannot allow to get ahead of you!

You may also wish to note that my trans is in an early model SRT8 build and is a Mercedes unit straight from the AMG parts bin. Made in Germany. No Chrysler parts were involved. After 100k miles of beatings it did need some work, extremely minor but work nonetheless. But it was most specifically not a Chrysler piece.

There is no one at the road courses in a Taurus, I attend them regularly. Since they weigh several hundred pounds more than my FULL SIZE LUXURY car they would seem a strange choice for road course work. But I have had many poorly informed folks criticize my cars track performance prior to a demonstration of its capabilities. I assure you, we pass RACE PREPPED Mustangs on courses all over the country in BONE STOCK SRT8's. Videos are available. I have out braked fancy trailered-in Porsches at Homestead from over 150 mph into the infield corkscrew, try that in a Taurus and your brakes will fail and likely catch fire (as you understeer off the course)!

As stated previously, your so-called facts have nothing to do with individual cars. All you can make is the extremely weak argument that one may get a bad Mopar more often than another brand. That's it. None of the newer owners here seem to have had this misfortune, and all we ever hear is anecdotal reports of a failure in some long ago purchase.

All mfgrs make lemons. Every single one.

So I choose to ignore the reports. You still get to crow about bad ole Mopar all you want...

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: glock19
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
My current fav is Mopar, and I own 2 now. And that car in my sig has 100k miles and has had 7 sets of tires, over 200 dragstrip passes and countless road course days. In over 40 years of racing I have NEVER had another car as durable under such usage, and I guarantee you that ITguy's Ford would have blown up by now.


I'm confused. You don't want people to make generalizations about Mopar products, so you in turn make one about Fords. I don't think that was the best way to present your case.

For the record, I think Ford and Mopar both make solid cars.


Please note that was a response, not a "out of the blue" statement. Itguy08 has a long and illustrious history of printing every anti Mopar factoid he can find and repeatedly posting it in any thread he can. I feel I can criticize his choice of car as well!

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
itguy08

First of all, if you can remember details during your Mopar knocking [censored] (don't have time to count all your posts about it!) you will recall that my transmission was rebuilt VOLUNTARILY. Many folks would never have done it at all, it was not noticeable to most. It simply did not fail, nor was it about to. Plus I had a wonderful 3400 stall TC that was waiting in the wings and wanted to install it anyway, and the trans has to come out to do that. I always tend to be proactive as I have a huge stable here that you cannot allow to get ahead of you!

You may also wish to note that my trans is in an early model SRT8 build and is a Mercedes unit straight from the AMG parts bin. Made in Germany. No Chrysler parts were involved. After 100k miles of beatings it did need some work, extremely minor but work nonetheless. But it was most specifically not a Chrysler piece.


I wouldn't call starting to slip a minor issue. Especially when in your post you stated that the computer was jacking the pressure sky high to try to keep a good shift. Once it runs out of pressure, it's game over for the tranny.

Your post is linked - people can draw their own conclusions.

I can say that the Taurus drivetrain most likely will hold up well as they are putting it in the police vehicles now. And those are most likely driven more severely than yours. Time will tell on the durability.


Quote:
There is no one at the road courses in a Taurus, I attend them regularly.


Please point out where I said the Taurus was a good track car. It's a porker and not set up for that. It's really not set up for that despite offering a "performance pack". The brakes in early models were not up to the task, and the FWD bias is all wrong.

Quote:
Since they weigh several hundred pounds more than my FULL SIZE LUXURY car they would seem a strange choice for road course work.


The Taurus is also a full size car. And I'd hardly call a Challenger Luxury! Maybe a 300 but that's about it.


Quote:
But I have had many poorly informed folks criticize my cars track performance prior to a demonstration of its capabilities. I assure you, we pass RACE PREPPED Mustangs on courses all over the country in BONE STOCK SRT8's. Videos are available. I have out braked fancy trailered-in Porsches at Homestead from over 150 mph into the infield corkscrew, try that in a Taurus and your brakes will fail and likely catch fire (as you understeer off the course)!


I forgot the Chrysler is the be all and end all of performance cars. Can you send some of what you are smoking up north?

Again, I never said the Taurus was set up to be a track car. Ever. You'd be an idiot to try to track a car that weighs almost as much as an F150 and setup to be more of a cruiser than a track star!

While we're at it, what exactly is a "RACE PREPPED" car? Cause that can mean many different things to many different people!

Quote:
As stated previously, your so-called facts have nothing to do with individual cars. All you can make is the extremely weak argument that one may get a bad Mopar more often than another brand. That's it. None of the newer owners here seem to have had this misfortune, and all we ever hear is anecdotal reports of a failure in some long ago purchase.


Someone needs to be getting the lemons or the ratings from nearly every place that tracks that sort of thing say the same thing. Bury your head in the sand if you want but the fact is that Mopar makes [censored] on average. Sure they make some good ones but the fact is that the average Mopar is far behind the other manufacturers in durability. Heck, Consumer Reports was in love with the Ram when they tested it and it "graduated" to NOT RECOMMENDED due to quality concerns! That's not me making this up but their results from their own surveys. So someone sure needs to be getting these vehicles!

Quote:
All mfgrs make lemons. Every single one.


Yup. And Mopar makes more than the rest. If you want a perfectly Average car, buy a Ford. If you want a slightly above average, buy a GM.

I get it you think your car is the best thing since sliced bread and that Mopar can do no wrong. That's cool. But the facts are they make vehicles that are consistently very below average in reliability. Had they made reliable cars they would not have to have been bailed out TWICE by the US GOVERNMENT!!!!

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Since they weigh several hundred pounds more than my FULL SIZE LUXURY car they would seem a strange choice for road course work.


The Taurus is also a full size car. And I'd hardly call a Challenger Luxury! Maybe a 300 but that's about it.


Steve's car is a 300.

 

[SteveSRT8]

A couple of corrections are in order.

Number one, my trans rebuild was completely voluntary and WAS NOT SLIPPING. Might want to work on that reading comprehension Mr. Smart guy above. Many folks drive their car years like mine and would never know there was an issue. This is a Merc unit known for durability even in ridiculous high power applications.

Number two, my car is an early 06 300C SRT8. A full sized luxury car. It comes from the factory ready to track as delivered. It is capable of 180 mph top speed and is unique in its abilities on the road course with full Brembo 4 piston setup on all 4 wheels. I have posted vids here of my friend Patrick at Callaboogie in Canada passing a variety of high end cars including real race prepped cars in his stock 300C SRT8 identical to mine. These are not mundane boring grocery getters! Anyone who knows anything about SRT knows what they make.

Last, I have Ford, Mopar, GM, British Leyland, and more in my personal stable right here. We are not crazed Mopar only fanatics, we buy what we want and like.

NO statistics are even considered by us when we decide what to purchase. As stated repeatedly, stats are for groups, not individual cars. I guess IT folks are a bit focused on the numbers...

 

[chrisri]

I'm no expert on American cars , but Chrysler is only make that can sell anything in Europe. Try that with US Ford or GM. Those surveys means little in real life IMO.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
I'm no expert on American cars , but Chrysler is only make that can sell anything in Europe. Try that with US Ford or GM. Those surveys means little in real life IMO.


Ford sells tons of cars in Europe. And Opel (a GM brand) is also extremely popular.

German car sales for September as an example:

http://europe.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA96608103.PDF

VW - 54 939
Mercedes 22 623
BMW - 21 459
Audi - 21 436
Opel - 19 759
Ford - 16 597
Skoda - 16 218
Fiat - 5 122

 

[chrisri]

No, you misunderstood me. What I meant is that Chrysler (and Jeep) are only American make that can sell American product in Europe. GM Opel and Euro Ford are developed and manufactured here so they cannot be considered really to be an American car. If you ask average guy who make Opel it will tell you Germans, and in reality it is a German car.

 

[antiqueshell]

Really hilarious arguments here. Bottom line is that
if you went down to the actual number of lemons bought back by
the Chrysler, Ford, and GM it would probably been on par the same for each when accounting for the total volume of units they each sold. The difference in reliability between the brands today is
so narrow you can barely ACCURATELY measure it.

 

[fisher83]

I have had pretty decent experiences with the Chrysler products I have owned. I sold a Chrysler Concorde to my brother in law over 10 years ago and it has been a fantastic car for him and has given him very few issues. I have had only minor issues with the Chrysler products I have owned. Never any serious engine or transmission issues. I also find them to be pretty decent used car buys and generally cheap to repair and maintain. I have owned several cars and trucks from all the Big 3, Hyundai/Kia, Honda and Nissan and I can't really say I noticed a substantial difference in reliability amongst them.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
A couple of corrections are in order.

Number one, my trans rebuild was completely voluntary and WAS NOT SLIPPING. Might want to work on that reading comprehension Mr. Smart guy above. Many folks drive their car years like mine and would never know there was an issue. This is a Merc unit known for durability even in ridiculous high power applications.


I think my reading comprehension is just fine. Here's your thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3463592/1

Here are your own words:
Quote:
Due to my background I am extremely observant while driving my car. Recently noticed a very slight delay in my 2-3 shift. At normal speeds most would not even notice this, but I did.

I also believe in being proactive rather than waiting. So I saw my German trans guy and we drove around with the scan tool for a while. The diagnosis was worn clutches on 3, the trans had the pressure jacked to the limit trying to complete the shift quickly.


I'd say a delayed 2-3 shift, with pressures at the max is a slipping transmission. That would be the same if it were a Ford, GM, JATCO, Aisin, ZF, Mercedes, or Mopar.

Quote:
Number two, my car is an early 06 300C SRT8.


I think I had 2 choices as it's not in your sig. I took a chance and lost. I stand corrected.

Quote:
Last, I have Ford, Mopar, GM, British Leyland, and more in my personal stable right here. We are not crazed Mopar only fanatics we buy what we want and like.


Buying what you like is great. It's what we all should do. Life's too short to not enjoy the trip.

Quote:
NO statistics are even considered by us when we decide what to purchase. As stated repeatedly, stats are for groups, not individual cars. I guess IT folks are a bit focused on the numbers...


Yup, IT folks are. Cause the numbers are the #'s. Neither good nor bad - it's emotionless. It's like the truth - may not be fair, may not be what you want to hear but it is the truth. Yes, #'s can be made to lie but when all sources say the same things you have to tend to believe them. All those people can't be in cahoots to lie. It also paints a picture as to what to expect and where your odds may be in the end.

If one chooses to not look at them that's fine. If one makes excuses for why not to look at them that's fine too. But to deny they exist and say they are "wrong" is another thing completely.

 

[ET16]

By the way, what's the consensus on Avengers. They can be had somewhat cheaply. The V6 looks good.