2014 Dodge Dart SXT

[Blue_Goose]

Isn't the Avenger being phased out this year?

I've had my Charger for about 1 1/2 weeks and really enjoy it.

My stepson bought himself a Dart GT and love the heck out of it.

I've never been brand loyal. If it looks good and I like it, I'll buy it. If you like the Dart go for it.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
A couple of corrections are in order.

Number one, my trans rebuild was completely voluntary and WAS NOT SLIPPING. Might want to work on that reading comprehension Mr. Smart guy above. Many folks drive their car years like mine and would never know there was an issue. This is a Merc unit known for durability even in ridiculous high power applications.


I think my reading comprehension is just fine. Here's your thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3463592/1

Here are your own words:
Quote:
Due to my background I am extremely observant while driving my car. Recently noticed a very slight delay in my 2-3 shift. At normal speeds most would not even notice this, but I did.

I also believe in being proactive rather than waiting. So I saw my German trans guy and we drove around with the scan tool for a while. The diagnosis was worn clutches on 3, the trans had the pressure jacked to the limit trying to complete the shift quickly.


I'd say a delayed 2-3 shift, with pressures at the max is a slipping transmission. That would be the same if it were a Ford, GM, JATCO, Aisin, ZF, Mercedes, or Mopar.



Then yet again you'd be wrong. No slipping at all, and that throws a code anyway which this unit never did. The pressure was actually at around 80% of maximum, which is higher than usually needed, and could only be determined by an experienced tech with expensive diagnostic equipment. The ONLY reason to rebuild was the nearly unnoticeable delay from 2-3, as stated specifically in the post referenced, which is not normally noticed by most folks. I CHOSE to service the unit as I am going to the track yet again with this car.

I have been to road courses since I was a kid, and done extensive drag racing as well. Never have I or others with even more experience seen a car as durable as this one at the track. The only thing it needs is tires, regularly. When others have a similarly performance oriented and capable vehicle with this kind of history and mileage I would be interested to hear their comments. I still see nothing to indicate that there is anything wrong with individual Chrysler products, only a few lemons which can easily be blamed on poor stealerships as they can't/won't fix them.

Better stick to IT, your trans diagnostic skills are a bit off. Since the word "slipping" was never used either you may want to examine your own bias' first.

No one cares about history, it's a new world of great cars and trucks out there. Stretch a little and get something out of your comfort zone. You might like it.

Plenty of Mopar owners here and elsewhere seem to agree...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No one cares about history, it's a new world of great cars and trucks out there. Stretch a little and get something out of your comfort zone. You might like it.


I generally agree, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say that history doesn't matter. I do hope that Chrysler Corporate has changed...we know that management has changed, but I hope the culture has changed. Our family has been burned twice by Chrysler Corporate; the dealers were pretty poor, sure, but in the end, Corporate seemed to go out of their way to make it miserable. Of course, this is before the bailout and complete management change. Again, I do sincerely hope that things there have changed. And by all accounts, it looks to have. Still...I think it's entirely reasonable to take a bit of a wait-and-see approach.

I do agree that historical reliability records don't necessarily represent current models. But in terms of ownership experience like dealer relationships and how one is treated by Corporate, that stuff does sometimes tend to stick around for a while.

That said, if our Acura rolled down a hill today and we were faced with buying something to replace it, I'd be looking hard at a Durango. RWD appeals to me and the Mopar dealer has vehicles that are highly appealing to me right now. It'd be difficult to convince my wife that Dodge is the way to go again. I thought I had as good of a chance of that as Thom Tillis did winning Kay Hagan's senate seat in NC, but he showed me that it IS possible!

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Then yet again you'd be wrong. No slipping at all, and that throws a code anyway which this unit never did. The pressure was actually at around 80% of maximum, which is higher than usually needed, and could only be determined by an experienced tech with expensive diagnostic equipment. The ONLY reason to rebuild was the nearly unnoticeable delay from 2-3, as stated specifically in the post referenced, which is not normally noticed by most folks. I CHOSE to service the unit as I am going to the track yet again with this car.


LOL. I'd call it slipping if you felt it no matter how you try to justify it. Again makes no difference who made the unit. But then again I have no involvement - if it's broken it gets fixed. No need to try to explain it away.

It's great that you have had awesome service from your vehicle. That's great. But even the head of Chrysler/Fiat knows there are quality issues:
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ch...ionne/18176163/

It's something that has dogged Chrysler nearly forever - maybe they can turn it around. Who knows - when you're in last place the only way is up.

Quote:
Better stick to IT, your trans diagnostic skills are a bit off. Since the word "slipping" was never used either you may want to examine your own bias' first.


So what would cause a "delay"? Cause that describes a slip quite well.

Quote:
No one cares about history, it's a new world of great cars and trucks out there. Stretch a little and get something out of your comfort zone. You might like it.


Really? Those that don't understand history are doomed to repeat it. It's really hard to change corporate culture at the size of an automaker. Just ask Mary Barra or Alan Mullally. History is the most accurate predictor of future performance. Not 100% accurate but all you have to go on unless you want to go in blind.

I have. Owned an 04 Infiniti G35 for 6 years. Great car. Probably would still have it if I didn't get tired of driving stick. I'd buy another in a heartbeat if the price was right.

I like a lot of Nissan's stuff as well as VW stuff seems to be loved by those that I know who own them. Hyundai also makes good stuff - I actually like the quirkiness of the Veloster. Outside of the Corvette I'm not much of a GM guy but they are solid too. Mazda seems like they are putting out fun to drive stuff now.

The wife is looking for a new car possibly in the next year. I actually want her to shop around just like we did the last time.

Quote:
Plenty of Mopar owners here and elsewhere seem to agree...

Really? Mopar brands tend to have the lowest loyalty rates in the industry.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/08/17/cars-most-likely-to-be-dumped/14121469/

Don't know why that is but I'd say quality and dependability would be a top driver away from a brand. Service would be a close second.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
No such thing as as a 66 dart. Didn't come out till 67


But everything on the internets is true! FWIW my 2010 Challenger V-6 has been flawless and gets better gas mileage than the EPA estimates.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
That said, if our Acura rolled down a hill today and we were faced with buying something to replace it, I'd be looking hard at a Durango. RWD appeals to me and the Mopar dealer has vehicles that are highly appealing to me right now. It'd be difficult to convince my wife that Dodge is the way to go again. I thought I had as good of a chance of that as Thom Tillis did winning Kay Hagan's senate seat in NC, but he showed me that it IS possible!


Durango is an amazingly well equipped SUV, and has dynamics that are comparable with anyone in the segment. Heavily Daimler tech, but with a nice simplification of American running gear.

Don't drive one, my life long Honda loyalist friend did and he bought it!

 

[Canawler]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
No such thing as as a 66 dart. Didn't come out till 67


Surprised nobody jumped all over that... the Dart was actually introduced for the 1960 model year.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: itguy08


LOL. I'd call it slipping if you felt it no matter how you try to justify it. Again makes no difference who made the unit. But then again I have no involvement - if it's broken it gets fixed. No need to try to explain it away.


Then you would be calling it slipping incorrectly. A slip has a very distinct feeling to it, if I feel a shift is slow, that does not describe a slip, it describes a slow or delayed shift. Perhaps this is due to a worn solenoid? A delay is exactly what it sounds like, that there is a time lapse or pause in the transition from one gear to another; that something is DELAYING the shift. A slip occurs AFTER the shift, the gear change has happened, but the friction material is slipping. Two very different things. This latter thing, a slip, will also set a code on most modern boxes because it is a serious problem.

Also, Steve's car has a programmer on it that likely commands faster shifts, which partially explains the higher line pressure.

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Quote:
Better stick to IT, your trans diagnostic skills are a bit off. Since the word "slipping" was never used either you may want to examine your own bias' first.


So what would cause a "delay"? Cause that describes a slip quite well.


A worn or aged shift solenoid, which describes a delay quite well, not a slip.

If it was slipping, as Steve already noted, it would have set a code.

 

[Blue_Goose]

Don't touch my Dart

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Durango is an amazingly well equipped SUV, and has dynamics that are comparable with anyone in the segment. Heavily Daimler tech, but with a nice simplification of American running gear.


It drives okay. Not as good as either of our vehicles, but it's okay. You can mask over 5,000 pounds of high-centered mass only so much. We drove a Hemi AWD Citadel when my folks were shopping SUVs and the Durango is just really heavy. It really doesn't compare to something like what they bought (an MDX).

In exchange, of course, for the Durango's much more truckish driving flavor is much more truckish capability, such as towing and overall mechanical "beefiness". There's certainly no free lunch, and increases in one area come at the expense of trade-offs in another. I strongly dislike the transmission shift programming (8 speed) and moderately disliked the porpoising drive, but moderately like the size and layout and strongly like the durability offered from the mechanicals (even if I don't like how they work).

A good choice, for sure. I hope we never have to make that decision (because it would mean that something tragic happened to one of our cars, likely with one of us in it), but if we did, the Durango would be a strong contender.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
It drives okay. Not as good as either of our vehicles, but it's okay.


I should re-state that. It doesn't drive as "tight" as our vehicles. "Good" is obviously subjective, and will change based on one's likes and dislikes. The Durango's ride was solid, yet still quiet and compliant. They did a great job handling the mass of that chassis, and I give the engineers full credit for that. I bet a lot of people do like it.

But our MDX is about 700 pounds lighter, and our CR-V is about 1,400 pounds lighter. There's quite a dramatic increase in chassis response of our CR-V compared with our MDX, likely due in large part to the difference in mass. There's also a dramatic increase in chassis response of our MDX compared with the Durango, also likely due in part part to the difference in mass. I don't mean to take anything away from the Durango as a vehicle...it just drives differently from what we prefer.

We have not driven a Grand Cherokee. I don't know if it's lighter than a Durango; it may be more to our liking. The huge trade-off with that one is the lack of a 3rd row; we use it in our MDX regularly. That's much of the Durango's appeal to us...

But anyway... Yeah, Mopar's got some great stuff out now.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^I would agree with the assessment as far as chassis dynamics on the Durango. You have the great misfortune to already have one of the best handling products out there!

 

[SLCraig]

Gotta love the Mopar bashing right on schedule.

I have owned 2 and my family has owned several all in total, we have been happy with all of them. I would eventually like to own a RAM someday if I ever stop commuting, and I would give a nut for an SRT Hellcat or even a regular SRT 392 Challenger.

And no, I would not be worried about any of them, because there is nothing to worry about.

The Dart on the other hand, I am not in love with... (really just because of power/performance) I would want to see an R/T or SRT version come out with some decent power before I'd want one... Would be a pretty sweet option with like 250+ HP.

 

[Subdued]

wow this itguy dude is an obnoxious lemming

 

[440Magnum]

ITguy, you can dislike Chrysler products all you want. You can quote CR and others all you want... but there are just as many disparaging things to be said about CR and JD Power as there are to be said about... well... Chrysler. You can buy into the junk "science" of CR, or the blatant lightweight "initial quality" nonsense JDP publishes all you want. But those will never trump experience, and you have MULTIPLE people here telling you that their experience is totally different than those rags report. And that's where the truth comes out.

 

[itguy08]

Typical fanboy mentality. I don't agree with what everyone says so they must be wrong. Multiple people out of, the what 180k vehicles a quarter Chrysler sells?

Now of course you have good experiences. And that's awesome. I don't believe I every said all Chhryslers are junk. Just they are the bottom of the reliability barrel. Even Yugo made some reliable cars - I'm sure you can find people that will say they were awesome too.

But on the whole people do not share those experiences. That is what is reported. So unless you think they are making things up then there is a lot of truth in what they report. Especially since they all say essentially the same things. So either people are lying or they send the surveys to the exact same people. I'll take the words of semi-random people from the whole population than some random fanbois on the Internet.

In the end we all buy what we like. But don't think Chrysler's vehicles are quality. Cause the #'s show they are far from that. For right now that's the breaks. Sorry if you don't agree with them but that is not up for debate.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Subdued
wow this itguy dude is an obnoxious lemming


At least I didn't say it.

But c'mon, we've all heard the deprecating comments and we're more than a little tired of the long winded tirade against Chrysler. We are all just so ignorant and uninformed!

You haven't changed any minds, just turned a lot of folks off...

 

[JetStar]

First mistake, Don't ever ask about a future car purchase ( or any purchase really) on BITOG and expect a consensus, it ain't gonna happen. Do your research using objective data and buy what you like.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Durango is an amazingly well equipped SUV, and has dynamics that are comparable with anyone in the segment. Heavily Daimler tech, but with a nice simplification of American running gear.


It drives okay. Not as good as either of our vehicles, but it's okay. You can mask over 5,000 pounds of high-centered mass only so much. We drove a Hemi AWD Citadel when my folks were shopping SUVs and the Durango is just really heavy. It really doesn't compare to something like what they bought (an MDX).

In exchange, of course, for the Durango's much more truckish driving flavor is much more truckish capability, such as towing and overall mechanical "beefiness". There's certainly no free lunch, and increases in one area come at the expense of trade-offs in another. I strongly dislike the transmission shift programming (8 speed) and moderately disliked the porpoising drive, but moderately like the size and layout and strongly like the durability offered from the mechanicals (even if I don't like how they work).

A good choice, for sure. I hope we never have to make that decision (because it would mean that something tragic happened to one of our cars, likely with one of us in it), but if we did, the Durango would be a strong contender.



We've got a 2011 Grand Cherokee, and yes its a little lighter, shorter, and more nimble than the Durango. But its not an MDX. Its a fantastic highway cruiser, and the 4x4 version (ours is a 2x) is surprisingly capable offroad, both of which work well with more compliance and suspension travel than a tighter more road-gripping feel. Its not a sport-SUV (except the SRT version... which is a differet animal altogether).

Its also been a bit of a recall queen (itguy will love that, but I'm being honest). Ours currently has 4 recalls I need to get done. Only one really matters- the propensity of the fuel pump relay in the integrated power module to fail. The others are pretty trivial and/or not applicable to my climate: brake booster corrosion and freezing, vanity mirror lights that can short out if the visor has been serviced in the past, and one other I'm forgetting at the moment. But overall we love it. Solid, quiet, super comfortable seating, enough power from the Pentastar/NAG1 combo, 28+ highway MPG last summer, but I sure would prefer the 8HP transmission they get now. Maybe next vehicle...

 

[Subdued]

I was on the fence before, but due to itlemming's constant keyboard vomit (I can just imagine how much he was frothing when posting a lot of it) there's a 100% chance I'm getting a Charger now.