2013 Ford F150 3.7L base V6 - fleet oil

[neilLB7]

To keep a long story short...my new truck at work is a 2013 Ford F150 with the base V6 engine. It's the Duratec 37 Ti-VVT twin independent overhead cam engine. Ford is calling for 5W-20 as they do in most models. However the service department where I work only stocks two oils....Citgo Citgard HD 15W-40 diesel oil and Citguard 600 10W-30 HD diesel oil. They are not interested in stocking SAE 5W-20 for me specifically. Nor SAE 5W-30 for the Chevy or Dodge trucks we also have. Everything used to get 15W-40 period. But the recent addition of 13 new F350 6.7L Powerstrokes calling for CJ-4 10W-30 was enough to get them to purchase the diesel 10W-30 finally.

I'm not too comfortable using either type/grade in this newer technology Ford engine...but the service department seems to not be concerned at all. They usually aren't concerned about much at all now that I think about it. Nor do they have ANYTHING to base their decision on other than "we've always done it this way...it'll be fine".

Historically, most pickups we get go to 200K before replacement. Out of five 4.8L Chevrolet gassers...three had severe ticking (then knocking) problems at 150K. Two of those three locked up engines suddenly. They received reman engines. The third got a new oil pump that saved it (it seems). So I'm not sure if the 15W-40 played any role in that or not. I believe all 5 Chevys had to have new converters at some point.

The sole Dodge Ram 1500 4.7L V8 seems to have been the best gas truck we've had in recent times. No issues ever and still going strong at 160K. The Dodge was mine prior to this new Ford. It always ran 15W-40. (But I'd sneak my own 5W-30 in it during Jan/Feb cold snaps).

Any thoughts on running a conventional Citgard 10W-30 HD diesel engine oil (CJ-4/SM) in a new "high tech" Ford V6 Ti-VVT? I'm thinking we will get by...but without knowing what kind of long term damage we are doing, if any.

 

[Donald]

I doubt you will have problems with a 10W30 vs 5W20. Does the owners manual have any allowance for oils other than 5W20?

While you drive it, its their vehicle and their service dept. If you have made them aware that it needs 5W20 and they choose not to listen, then you can lead a horse to water but cannot make him drink.

 

[440Magnum]

Great googly-moogaly. The Dodge 4.7 is a 5w20 engine, good to know the timing chain snubber/tensioners didn't bite the big one from using 15w40. Even with 5w20, it will push 100psi oil pressure above 2500 RPM when cold, so I guess that's enough to push the thick oil through the timing chain sprayers.

 

[Danno]

Sounds like a gov't operation.
I suggest running the 10W30 and don't worry about it. They own the engine issues.

 

[sciphi]

If you're on good terms with the manager, show him the owner's manual with the oil grade recommendation. If they balk at stocking a 5w-20, at least you tried. I'd ask for the 10w-30 as it's the thinnest they have.

It could be an issue of cost. Their supplier might charge them an arm/leg for stocking small amounts of other oils.

 

[NMBurb02]

Could you purchase some 5W-20, provide it to the service dept when they change your oil, and then expense the oil? That way, they don't have to stock it, you don't have to pay for it, and the Ford gets its 5W-20. Are they not concerned with keeping the warranty valid?

 

[HM12460]

Your service manager isn't going to give 2 hoots about putting 10/30 HD or 5/20 oil in the new Ford. He doesn't have 1 thin nickel of his own money invested in that truck. Nice truck btw!

 

[DinoOil]

Hi. I don't want to sound too negative. However, you did say this is a work truck and it is NOT yours, right? Since it is not yours, don't worry about it. Use what they supply to you. I wouldn't care beyond that. As long as you informed them you should rest easy.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Is it being paid for out of your pocket or the company's? If you were paying for it...I'd be a bit worried about the warranty.

It probably won't be hurt by it, but if it does spit out a road ... they're going to point a finger at the oil.

 

[neilLB7]

Correct...government operation. I'm the one who put up the fight to get the 10W-30 CJ4 for the newest DPF and DEF equipped diesels. And what a fight. I literally had people yelling at me that I didn't know what "I" was talking about. Yet,they didn't even know the difference between 10W-30 API SN for gas engines and 10W-30 API CJ4 for diesels. They almost bought the gas engine oil thinking 10W-30 is 10W-30 is 10W-30. That was another fight we had. Clueless.

I can't purchase and get any reimbursement. They won't buy anything without an approved purchase order. The owners manual only recommends 5W-20 and mentions no other grade. I was thinking I read somewhere that the cam timing system was hydraulic in some part and an oil grade change could affect that, which would result in maybe a MPG loss. But I'm not sure.

My former 2006 Ram 1500 4.7L was a 5W-30 engine. Manual and fill cap both said 5W-30. The Hemi that year was 5W-20. The new 4.7L's show 5W-20 however. I saw a 2010 with a 4.7L and noticed the cap on it showed 5W-20.

Yes, the problem is nobody has to pay for their mistakes and lack of knowledge or research. I tend to take outstanding care of my trucks out of personal behavior whether my own or at work. My own fleet of both gas and diesel vehicles/mowers/motorcycles get the best available oils. My assigned work truck is treated like one of my own. And it always shows. Every department in the county was scrambling trying to get ahold of my Dodge when I turned it in. The interior still looked like brand new. And you could eat off the engine.

 

[electrolover]

Idk if it will tear it up or not. Let us know how a 5/20 spec ford runs on 10/30 hdeo!
Mine runs just fine on 5/30 10/30 and 5/40 so I bet it will be ok, but it never gets cold here

 

[neilLB7]

One thing I can say about the 15W-40 in the 4.7L Magnum was that I never had an issue with foaming or sludgeing with all the detergents in the HD oil and whatever else it's good for. Some 4.7L's exhibited sludging and milky foam using conventional 5W-30...from what I've read on them in Durango's and Jeeps especially.

I'll just go with the 10W-30 HD oil. I just know if something goes wrong...it's the truck I have to drive, and therefore won't be driving when it does break down. And I won't get another one for 7 years. And if the engine is on their dime it'll be sitting while they get in a blame game with the dealership. Then I'll be driving the old Dakota parts runner truck with no A/C and half the seat fabric missing.

 

[electrolover]

Ya know I have vct too and it works off of oil pressure. The only oil I have noticed a mpg change with is 40w and it wasn't very much.

Im betting the engine will last a lot longer than one ran on 5/20 but thats a blasphemous thing to say here so I wont.

 

[neilLB7]

I'm not close minded to using the diesel 10W-30. However I'm always extremely cautious before disregarding recommendations. I like the idea because I know there are advantages to HD C-rated oils. And it seems to be great in many applications where it wasn't intended originally. Like my 1200 Goldwing for instance. Wing owners swear by 15W-40 for both the engine and transmission versus Honda oil (DELO400 and Val Premium Blue in particular).

The truck gets driven in every kind of weather condition and will have many idle hours on it before it's retired. And HD oils keep internals so clean it's hard not to consider them.

I'm just seeing if there were any known issues thus far with the newer Duratec engines and HD oil. They are so new in trucks there's no real record of people who might be using HD oil in them. It's been out for a little while in cars. Car owners using the same engine (like the Mustang) are less likely to stray from recommended grades versus fleet trucks. So I can't find much.

My Vol Fire Dept has a 2004 F550 V10 squad truck. After the warranty (36 months) was up we went with Rotella 10W-30 in it from then on. But it's still only got 4000 miles on it. And the history of using HD oils in Modulars didn't seem to be any problem. I even read where some California police departments were using 15W-40 in Crown Vics to reduce 5W-20 burn off in the hot climate they run in.

But Modulars are significantly different than Duratecs so the history doesn't apply.

 

[cptbarkey]

enjoy your new fleet truck after this new one grenades.

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
enjoy your new fleet truck after this new one grenades at taxpayer expense.


Who cares about properly maintaining vehicles when it's taxpayer money paying for them? We wouldn't want to inconvenience the guys working on them. Nevermind the fact that the correct oil would actually be cheaper.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: neilLB7
Any thoughts on running a conventional Citgard 10W-30 HD diesel engine oil (CJ-4/SM) in a new "high tech" Ford V6 Ti-VVT? I'm thinking we will get by...but without knowing what kind of long term damage we are doing, if any.


I'm sure it would work, although perhaps not be optimal. Kudos to you, however, for paying attention and caring as to what goes into the vehicle, even though it's not yours. If everyone had such ethics, I'm sure governments and corporations could save a lot of money and grief.

 

[REDDOG]

OP, congrats on the new truck! I commend you for the way you treat your assigned vehicles! I wish everyone cared as much!

I fully understand your frustrations. I service a small fleet of municipal vehicles myself so I see it both ways. I use ONLY approved lubes for a variety of vehicles to protect taxpayer investments with warranties. This includes diesels which require 15w-40 CJ-4, Fords that get 5W-20 and Chevys that get 5W-30 SN Dexos and non-Dexos. The problem is not everyone in the same situation is understanding of oils/engine needs, motivated to do the best possible for all apps and willing to stock several different oils. It is easier to stock one oil and folks default to the diesel oils (for obvious reasons-one would not want 5W-20 SN oil in a HD diesel application). That's the idea behind fleet oil-"one size (kinda) fits all".

However, as mentioned earlier in the thread, if the maintenance personnel DON'T UNDERSTAND the different oils then the risk of misapplication is very real. The HD oils will do better in the gas engines than the gas oils would do in the diesels. It sounds like the very presence of gas oil in the shop could be dangerous! I would let them use the 10W-30 CJ-4 and hope for the best. I am willing to bet it will work quite well. Also, IME fleets tend to get less of a grilling then a private owner when warranty claims pop up, most likely due to the volume of vehicles they buy. I have NEVER been asked for one shred of documentation for a warranty claim. None.

I know of a large public agency nearby that has used Delvac 1 5W-40 in their gas engines for the last 20 years with 32,000 (not a typo) mile drain intervals. Warrantied or not. I have it on very good authority they have never lost an engine. Even if they had it would be foolish for suppliers to deny a claim and lose the business of a huge consumer of vehicles.

Good luck with the new ride and I hope you enjoy it!

 

[Lyman]

At least they get the oil changed. I drive government equipment where I work. We are lucky to get the oil changed once every 5 years. Our tax dollars at work.

 

[sm00thpapa]

While in the military we would submit a UOA every 6 months or when asked. And it was up to the team doing the UOA if the oil needed to be changed. Most vehicles the oil would be changed anytime between 3 to 5 years. And we used some generic 15W-40 government issue.