2012 Kia Sedona LX

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2012 Kia Sedona LX, 209k, Just acquired this one with the intent of it being the winter beater, not that the other cars are mint, this one could end up being the best. Got it off a dealer about $2700 out the door. Probably going to need a little guidance in that I am just learning more about the KIA V6, not sure but the dealer listed it as the 3.8 and every VIN decode also says it's a 3.8, but I can't seem to find a tag confirming that, but I did change the oil first thing, takes 5.8 quarts according to the online owner manual. Top end cartridge type oil filter, the other motor it could have is a 3.5 and that's the filter Fram TG10855 that fits, I also bought the one listed for the Venza 3.8 just so I'd have both options. Rock Auto only has the 3.5 listed for the 2012 Sedona, and to my surprise this one was built in South Korea.

I think it was just listed yesterday so at that price I got curious and looked at it twice yesterday but waited till this morning to look it over 1 more time being it did have a oil drip at the bottom and an EVAP code was set for a small leak. Other pending codes was P0016, P0017, a crankshaft camshaft correlation issue, to which the pending code did cycle out, so did the EVAP code, and my wishful think is the easy stuff like an oil change or a new VVT valve solenoid, but it could be a little more invasive as a new VVT cam sprocket and cam shaft for both banks. Either way, the plan is to do the preventive maintenance during this summer and get a set of winter tires.

The vehicle history showed same owner since about 20k, shows regular 6k or less oil changes at a dealer documented up to about 129k, but being it was the same owner I wished to conclude that pattern continued and just didn't get reported. Drives nice and shifts nice, looks like there is plenty of room to work on it except to get to the rear bank of spark plugs you do have to take the upper intake manifold off. Here's a couple of photos and I've already ditched the engine vanity cover;
20210626_204522.jpg

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Tomorrow is likely going to get a drain and fill for the transmission, not sure what the options are but it doesn't have a pan and a filter like I'd prefer; air filter, cabin filter, and clean MAP sensor and probably study everything more. I'm going to try to do a little better at documenting stuff because I know it's nice to have that guidance when your first getting into some unknowns and like most every time, I know something before buying, but learn a lot more after the purchase...
 
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Mahzurrah!
We had a 2012 Sedona for many years, purchased at 16k and we drove it another 100k before selling it to my daughter who is still driving it. Great vehicle, very reliable and functional. I'm pretty sure ours had the 3.5 liter Hyundai Lambda II engine in it. I always used Napa filters without any issue, and the engine is very tolerant of about any oil you want to put in it. I rarely ran 20 grades as KIA quickly suggested going thicker for any kind of real work or high temps (I called that a clue). Magnatec 5w30 was a hit, even 40 grade Euro oils made no difference ran great without fuss.
 

Supersonic

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Drove it around for errands to day and gotta say I am happy so far even thought the codes have not cycled out haven't heard the rattle Cold Engine Start-Up Chatter - 2011-2013 Kia Sorento and the transmission seems strong, probably ain't going to get anything more done today but that makes for more time to figure out what I got to get it serviced. I haven't even found the pcv valve yet but Rock Auto shows something that is threaded in, I'd better look harder and get a new one on it's way.

And after finding out the hubs are 6 bolt and my 4Runner spares will fit it I was able to rotate the back to the front and get the worn tires off. Just noticed the bolt missing from the intake manifold so somebody must have been in there, as for the engine covers, after finding rodents nest under my last 2 vans I am going to be prone to leaving them off. I was going to look at a plug but the tires especially on front took some extra persuasion, I think this must have been parked for the last year or so and some corrosion has set in. The fuel fill opening was showing some rust so I cleaned that up a bit and the cap seal.

The battery looks almost new and says Kia, that might be a good sign they were keeping up on the maintenance. Starter looks like it might be in a hard spot, hope I never find out, but I'll be preparing with a spare along with other extras like the alternator. Also started noticing that it was hit in the left front, head light looks new and the AC condenser showed a repair in 2017.

It's seems like it's well built with some simple elements that are not so hardy, which ain't so bad I prefer the simple. For example, sliding doors open and shut nice, but the handles are of dubious quality in their operation. I got some wheel sensor codes too, going to try to clean them up and I suspect it's rust and corrosion from sitting, the rotors looked it, but I could read the pads, Bosch on front and Power Stops on the rear. Front is a dual piston set-up so I'll have to go over that too, knowing from the 4Runner dual pistons aren't always so smooth.
 

Supersonic

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Probably this Sorento Maintenance Kia Sorento Forum 2011 - 2013 (XM) Sorento Useful Youtube Videos, Posts thread is mostly applicable for the Sedona too. I watched the transmission drain and fill but I am likely going to wait for the week end to do the whole fluid exchange, lines are under the battery box and the return is the one to the right according to another source. The fill plug is a plastic fastener located front and center that doubles as the vent outlet too.

Found out the rattle is best dealt with by using the OEM oil filter, went by the dealer to get a PCV and ask about the engine size, mine is the 3.5 according to the VIN information, ran into a nice guy who printed it out for me saying 2012 was a transitional year. I was leaning toward the 3.8 because the van is faster then I expected it to be, but in the end I just want reliable and the perceived better gas mileage of the smaller of the 2.

He also filled me in on not worrying about any rattle unless it goes on for 10 seconds or more. He says it's the oil filter drain back and the OEM is best option. I have the Fram Tough guard in it now and just heard a couple second rattle once starting it this afternoon. I hope he's right but it probably would be a good experience for me to replace a cam shaft and VVT sprocket and I got all summer I'd like to think. Bought that OEM oil filter at $8 and PCV valve is on order, $12 Wednesday, I'd best get an extra oil filter then too. Got to swap out the new one ASAP but it is raining and I'm probably best to be patient until tomorrow.

Got 2 snow tires on order at discount tire too, Champiro $78 each, last 2 in the chain's inventory so they'll come from separate locations and may take about a week. Just likely will run them on the back until fall and I decided getting 2 brand new snow tires was probably the best option for now.

Also went to the salvage yard to check used tire inventory as I'll need the other 2 tires before long too. They got a 2012 but no motor, I nabbed the owner's manual, slightly weathered, a drive belt for a spare, the rear jack panel-cover, 4 wire O2 sensor not sure which one, and a hand full of loose screws and plastic fasteners. Thought I found the one for the intake manifold off a 2006, but it didn't tighten when I tried to install it, so it may be different lengths of the threads are no longer usable, an unknown. That's about all I can remember for now.
 
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Mahzurrah!
They are just rackety engines at start up. The OEM oil filter myth that just refuses to die is only related to much older vehicles and the spin on filters at that, not cartridge like you have.

Yes the 3.5 has lots of power, when we bought ours the salesman bragged it was "the fastest minivan on the market". Boy did my teenage son grab onto that one! I did have fun with it stretching it's legs occasionally on an on ramp though.

Only thing that made any difference at start up on ours was using Castrol Magnatec, it was actually noticeable but it's just a noisy engine at start up.
 

Supersonic

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Good, doing the short change interval I'll get some Magnatec and save the OEM filter. I got some STP synthetic oil treatment to add as I just planned to change the filter this afternoon and then have some room to add oil. Wanted to go with the Hyper-Lub Zinc replacement but Walmart didn't have any and I didn't want to pay the $20 Auto Parts store price, assumung Walmarts price would have been cheaper.

2 of the 6 Codes for Crankshaft Camshaft Correlation cycled out on their own, and I now know the location of the Crankshaft sensor so If it looks easily accesable I'll probably pull that and clean it up after swapping tires out if any motivations remain.

Also showing a manufacturer code for U1112, which seems a communication code, so it may be related. I also plan to eventually find the camshaft sensors for bank 1 and looks at them.

So now that I think I can articulate my logic, the codes P0016 and P0017 are for Crankshaft correlation with Bank 1 Camshaft sensors A and B and being there is a small misfire count on mostly 2, 4, 6, which should be bank 2, I don't think it's a mechanical issue, and will proceed with the tune-up stuff, probably just spark plugs, and clean and/or replace the cam/crank sensors along with checking the connections and whatever else I learn for diagnosis. This is where I don't mind being called a parts changer if it cures the ills, of course having the time and money and a expesive garage set-up with tools would make this more fun if I have to delve deeper.
 
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Not sure how much oil room you'll gain by just changing the cartridge filter, it's on top and you won't lose much.

I'd go at least 5w30 with the Magnatec and give it 1,000 to 1500 miles to lay down it's magic, but you'll be glad you did. JMO.
 

Supersonic

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Per the information you've provided on oil filter drain back and cartridges I did not change out the filter. Oil might be a little more on the full side but I only used 2/3 the STP synthetic oil additive.

I did change the PCV valve and pictured here is the location behind the throttle body with the 4 bolts removed but one is a mount at the bottom. The old PCV valve seemed to be about half the restriction of the new one as I blew through both for comparison, taste was as expected. It did rattle as I shook it. The PCV threads into a plastic valve cover and I went easy being I have the intake manifold off eventually for a tune-up and valve cover gasket. The hose clamp would have been the most difficult part to get off without removing the throttle body. PCV valve is a 14mm. I did not remove any of the throttle body wire or coolant connections, opting instead to lay it aside enough I could work, it is just below the dish showing the 4 bolts if anyone doesn't recognize it.
20210630_182056.jpg


Next I cleaned the throttle body but it would not stay open with the ignition on and pedal weighted to the floor so I unfortunately had to hold it open manually which I know should be avoided but I couldn't put it back together with all that grime.

And now for the next surprise, a newish looking master cylinder for the brakes with a puddle of hydraulic smelling fluid below on the top of the transmission, just below the air box housing,

to which I might owe that sloppy pour a thanks, from below it looked like the main seal could be leaking, and that may be a part of why the price was so low. I had already wiped it from below and so far the the drips haven't reappeared. I also tried to take pictures of the valley to see if there is any symptoms of an oil leak coming from there or the plastic oil filter housing.

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Next is a view of the valley, I have a couple more but this seems like the best at a glance.

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And finally I'll show the top of the transmission where my screwdriver is between the electrical connection and where the fill vent tube attaches near the plastic bolt where the transmission is refilled at. Mine is the Kia 6 speed automatic, Hyundai/Kia 6-Speed Automatic, A6LF.

20210630_191112.jpg



Going to add this one more for more orientation and detail for future reference, the oil filter housing on one side and throttle body opposite, the one different mounting bolt is at the throttle body base under the electrical connection.

20210630_191158.jpg
 
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Supersonic

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Yes, just got out of the junk yard and I got to practice part removal with the spark plug coil connectors and the camshaft position sensor on the 2006 motor. When I pulled the cam sensor it had a little sludge build up on it and that got me thinking that may be my bank 1 crank - cam correlation issue, the P0016, P0017 codes. I planned to get a better look at them when I change the plugs. The PCV valve also being located near them may be a clue of a build-up as it was about half the flow of the new one.

The other big is the missing intake plenum bolt, I had already pulled the on from the 2006 on Monday, it's just a little short but after removing the rubber cushion part it was able to grab enough threads to hold down and it looks like the misfire count is consistently down into the single digits on bank 2. Along with the idea that when warranty work was done to replace the fuel line the intake plenum gasket wasn't replaced with a new one, I'd like to think that solves problem 2. Ebay seller notes many times these bolts get twisted off saying the torque spec is too much. Best option for me, I bought a new one through the dealer as I would have recourse if any issue. Intake Plenum long bolt Part #29213-3c010. Search eBay without the dash 292133c010 shows more listings.

The only other known big issue is tires, got 2 snow tire on order from Discount Tires, $156, still expecting a mount/balance charge. Then 2 used $65 salvage yard tires, the mount/balance being another $65, $130 total for the pair, and I am at least off the 2 bald tires. Going to get a second set of rims, $35 each, probably for 2 more snow tires but I can at least take some time and look at options before spending more, Tires are expensive and good tires can be even more expensive...

Last, I bought the salvage yard intake snorkel with clamps $5 and the 2 unique mounting screws for the shift lever, 1 was missing and the other screw loose so it was like re-living shift levers from the 80's, the shift operates as intended now. Bought the snorkel because there is 1 unique tube attachment and been warned they can break off easily.

Got about $250 in tune-up parts coming from Rock Auto; spark plugs, valve cover gaskets, upper and lower intake manifold gaskets, oil pressure sensor, 1 crank and 2 cam shaft sensors, opted for 3 new Spectra coils for the rear bank as Spectra has a lifetime guarantee and $15 cost each from Rock Auto. I'll be more into next week as some parts aren't getting here by Saturday, so hopefully I'll update and show what I find as that proceeds. Winter beater is going to be about $3500 total so far, priceless for the fun I've had and if it all works out.
 

Supersonic

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Today I erased the codes and eventually the check engine light went off. Planning a trip to Harbor Freight to get the 10% off the 3 tier $49 tool cart so I can continue to see if the codes P0016 and P0017 do anything, crank-cam correlation issue. I was at discount tire, they had 1 of my snow tires and was able to mount and balance it so I took it today and was able to use the best of the original to have 4 tire that match in size. While waiting I erased the codes figuring I knew what they were and there wasn't any other codes, just 2 permanent codes for 16 and 17 remained but cycled out as of now.

Next was the transmission fluid exchange, I think I captured in in 1 picture, but I may post 2 as somethings may be more clear. Drained about 3.2 quarts, drain plug had less then 1/4 magnetic surface covered in shavings, cleaned and reinstalled the drain plug, filled in same volume of fluid.

Fill plug was a 24mm plug so I didn't have to use the vent, I just funneled a 3/8 tube into it, then took off the expected outlet line the one to the right as you face the motor/trans, had a connector from Dorman 030-496 kit to connect it, then after spilling some fluid had to plug the trans end with an orange ear plug, the line leaked also as I ran the motor but the bigger volume was coming out the connection as expected and hoped... I have an ear plug example in the picture. Use the long handle curved needle nose pliers to get the clamp backed off worked great just had to position it a little more toward the access point, the wires present pushed aside easily for access point to remove the clamp and I didn't remove the battery as others reported doing.

I swapped about 8 quarts of Valvoline Max Life into it, spilled some and had to get another jug to finish the exchange and when I did the final check I ended up adding almost another quart, not totally unexpected as I thought the 3.2 intial drain was shy of the ~4 quarts others were reporting from the Serento maintenance thread linked previously up-thread. I just finger tightened the fill plug as I drove it for the warm-up part. If I can think of anything more I'll add it later, but I'm trying to be simple and hopefully this will capture it all;

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Okay, 3's a charm because the third one you can just see the ear plug that is in the transmission inlet line in-between the right of the pliers and where the white connector is. The red is the funnel and tube. Basically this is the whole set-up, that simple with the drain plug at the bottom, also a 24mm. I'll leave all 3 just as some of the details may be more clear in each.
 

Supersonic

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Here's the post where I found the basic instructions on how to fill the transmission. Just back from Harbor Freight and the bank 1 crank/cam correlation codes P0016, P0017 have returned so I am not sure if the erase had any effect but I think they may have briefly cycled out which makes me think it is still a electrical issue and not a mechanical one. The timing chains were mention on this thread, so I'll also look into that some too, thankfully there is plenty of room on this motor and I did a chain on a 1.8 Toyota in a Pontiac Vibe last fall. I think the bank 1 tensioner is external too, so that might be worth finding out more about.

Everything else seems to be good, I got to be happy with the transmission operation results though I only went about 12 miles and never got above 60 mph. Spark plugs next and when I have the intake plenum off I'll get a better look at the bank 1 cam sensors. Just waiting on parts which is a good thing so I can be more informed as I proceed. I do got the plugs and valve cover gaskets, so as I've learned, do the easy side first , then do the firewall side on a separate day when better prepared.
 
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The 3.3L engine has a defective oil pressure sensor that leaks and makes it look like a rear main seal leak. It's underneath the intake manifold.
 

Supersonic

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Thanks, I was looking into that and bought the oil sender and the sub-connection from the wire harness from Rock Auto so when the intake manifold is off a replacement option is available. Mine doesn't seem to be leaking, possibility it has already been replaced, and I am still awaiting service records from the dealer to which I left them another message. I learned the plastic oil filter housing may also become an issue. The Serento references have taught me a lot and I'll look into more Lambda II MPi similarities too.

As for the P0017, P0016, (17 is first code displayed, bank 1 sensor B) actually got 2 cam sensor parts today but am trying to be patient as the last of the tune-up/valve cover parts are scheduled for Thursday delivery and probably best I wait until I have the intake off but I could probably could do both sensors with just the intake tube off, just not sure in how the connector comes apart, looks easy... The parts changer in me wants to swap them out ASAP, but this is also an opportunity to learn diagnostic skills.

Going to use this opportunity to add some reference from the owner's manual to help any other's get around the learning curve. Got to say I really like it so far, with the price point and what is there, as long as one is serviceable, it's a really nice vehicle.
https://www.kia.ca/content/ownership/ownersmanual/12sedona_en.pdf

Been looking into the coolant options, from the owners manual Chapter 6 Page 14;
• The engine in your vehicle has aluminum engine parts and must be protected by an ethylene-glycol-based coolant to prevent corrosion and freezing.

Chapter 6 Page 43 or PDF Page 360
Engine oil *¹(drain and refill)
API Service SM*2,
ILSAC GF-4 or above
*2 If the API service SM engine oil is not available in your country, you are able to use API service SL.

Automatic transaxle fluid
MICHANG ATF SP-IV
SK ATF SP-IV
NOCA ATF SP-IV
KIA genuine ATF SP-IV or other brands meeting the above specification approved by Kia motors corp.

Next Page 6-44 for Oil Viscosity, that page is where chart is located;
10W-30, 5W-20, (5W-30)
*1 For better fuel economy, it is recommended to use the engine oil of a viscosity grade SAE 5W-20 (API SM / ILSAC GF-4). However, if the engine oil is not available in your country, select the proper engine oil using the engine oil viscosity chart.
 

Supersonic

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Here's the cam sensor locations I replaced, one tested slightly less effective in magnetic field, but replacing both did not effect the codes set P0016, P0017, crank-cam correlation bank 1 sensor A, B. Exhaust is below the PCV valve on the right, kinda daja-vue photo from previous post, and left, the intake plenum needs to come loose to remove the intake cam sensor; including the 12mm at the throttle body base, except for the plenum rear bracket, gave just enough room to get it replaced.

20210710_190437.jpg

Here the video I used for testing instruction, start at 2m mark for brevity;


And last I'll add my trouble light set-up, 4ft led from Harbor Freight, kinda of see the difference in how the hood is lite below and above the light, I have a center cord just to tilt it back slightly, as every trouble light wants to shine in my eyes...And yes I am aware I shouldn't set things on the battery, just was that instant I thought I'd get buy with it... Actually dropped the throttle body base bolt onto the block and had to jack it up and crawl underneath to feel around to find it, that was successful but another one of them reminders to be careful when removing bolts.
20210710_190523.jpg


Next I'll have to check the VVT solenoids, probably just going to replace them too, easy stuff first, because next would be removing the timing chain cover and possible rear valve cover. South Main Auto channel, Youtube, has an intake VVT solenoid example.

Kinda even with the parts cannon being I didn't change the plugs, coils or valve cover gaskets. The front bank plug was the expensive NGK iridium still good, and the valve cover wasn't dripping onto the alternator or starter. Stocking the parts for now will mean a cheaper tune-up later, thought the coils I might test in the front bank being their Spectra lifetime guarantee from Rock Auto.
 
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fun fact: for this gen. Sedona, if it is near dry with brake fluid, it can stop from 55 to 0 by only skidding through 1/4th of an intersection.

I was helping my senior uncle sell his second house in Florida and used a Sedona as his Florida car.

first night in Florida on the way to Mega-Lo Mart, found out that he neglected to check his brake fluid for however long it takes brake fluid to evaporate from the reservoir.

luckily it was 9p and there was no car ahead of me.
 

Supersonic

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The front brake calipers are dual piston too, that's one more thing to check before winter, do they slide evenly as the pins probably need cleaning and lubrication attention like the 4Runner, the fronts are quad piston and I've just replaced them because pad wear and it probably braked uneven if memory serves me.

Might be that next oil change comes at 400 miles instead of the 500, seems Kia has a TSB, in it, a 'tech tip' that states oil flow from the aftermarket oil filter may be different and might alter CVVT performance. That could contribute to the crank-cam correlation code P0016, found that here;
https://www.autocodes.com/uploads/kia/kia-cvvt.pdf
and a little different for Hyundai;
https://www.autocodes.com/uploads/hyundai/09-EM-002.pdf

Got that from links provided at this fella showing his testing;


I was doing the oil change early anyhow, and this will allow for the opportunity to try the Castrol Magnatec 5w-30 too. Planned the early interval because unknown previous history and even if I knew, I was going to change it out in the fall. But the previous filter was likely OEM being that owner was having the dealer do servicing according to the records I've seen, I didn't keep it and can't remember having read any markings on it, just threw it out not thinking it might be factor. When I bought it the oil was not clean and down about 1/4 qt on the dipstick, assuming full to low is 1 quart difference. I thought it was nearing the next oil change and probably wasn't a oil burner, tail pipe was clean as a used car gets.

But when I was first looking at the vehicle I did see pending codes for P0016, P0017, they seemed to have cycled out. I had start drove it about 5 times and never got the permanent code like I do now. The motor sounded fine and at the time I thought it wasn't a mechanical failure such as a timing chain issue. That will be interesting if oil filter flow makes a difference and I can slow the parts cannon expenditures.

My wishful thinking is this motor will be very happy with another oil change and an OEM filter. I prefer the codes cycle out on their own as opposed to using the erase function, tough call here as I would rather know immediately as to not drive it if the fix could be simple as cleaning a oil control valve or something more intrusive. Better rest on that, nothing else going to get done today.
 
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Supersonic

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Work on OBD2 codes P0016, P0017, trying to do the easy stuff first, replaced the intake VVT soleniod and just tested the rear for resistance, both tested fine, so next parts cannon is under the timing cover, chain tensioner's and guides at minimum, on order from eBay and Rock Auto, plan is to take it apart on Sunday and assemble during the week as the parts arrive including water pump. If more parts like the chains or sprockets need replacing hopefully I know Sunday night so I can start ordering early in the week and have everything put together by next weekend.

Here's the bank 1 intake VVT solenoid, lots of wire harness to move to get a clear shot at it, and I put some shop towel into the socket as I assembled it so I would have less chance of dropping the bolt. The motor mount is what is on the left and you can just see the blue towel shred that got caught around the bolt as I installed it. The black plastic piece at the top is the bank 1 valve cover if that helps orientate the photo better. I used a channel lock pliers to pull it out, came out fairly easy.

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And the thermostat got replaced too, really easy, 3 bolts, and as I didn't drain the radiator, the drain appears to be a plastic philips screw at the middle bottom of the radiator, didn't want to open on the easy so I just let it drain from the thermostat area and I funnelled best I could to the drain pan, don't think that mattered either, it drained straight down and didn't spill much. And most all the coolant fit back into the radiator, about 8 ounces to the overflow then I added some, I like the overflow coolant level to be visibly just above the high mark when it's cold as a good reference when I check it. I do open the radiator caps once in a while too, just to be sure the coolant is staying full there too. The photo's are the side of the motor just above the transmission end, 2 of the 3 bolts showing.
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