2011 Toyota Prius or something else?

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Just spent some time on the Prius forums and the TDI forums. OMG !!!

The contrast is stark! I know there are plenty of VW fans out there. But, after reading the TDI forums again, I see that nothing has changed. VW has serious problems, most of which are unknown to the general car purchasing public.

On "true delta" dot com, 08 thru 11 Prius have 0 up to 15 trips to the dealership per year/100 cars. Stunningly good!
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Id go with a cruze eco or golf diesel over a prius.

Im not anti-prius, but MO they are better suited for shorter, round-town driving. For highway type use, great economy can be had from far simpler powertrains.

This may be true in theory but not in practice.

If your city trips are around 5-10 miles, your terrain is not 100% flat, and you have a heavier foot, you may find that the Prius will achieve low to mid 40s.

In the 12k+ that I've driven my 2011, I still find that long highway trips on flat terrain will yield much better fuel economy than any in-town driving, at least here in Monterey. On a recent trip from Tracy to Santa Cruz, I got about 52 while driving slightly above the speed limit. Around Monterey, I get 42-44.

As with any engine, it will operate most efficiently once warmed up. The Prius is no exception to this. As a result, short trip driving (10 miles or less) is detrimental to fuel economy. And the Prius is also exceptionally sensitive to driving style.

Originally Posted By: dkrivosheyev
I read a lot of reviews that Prius has a very refined quiet ride on the highway. Did anyone check what RPMs its engine turns at 80 MPH?


The Prius has slightly more road noise on the highway than most Toyotas, but still far less than a Honda Fit, for instance. On flat land, 80 mph should be no problem for the Prius (in fact, even 95+ is fine) and the engine will barely be audible. However, the engine noise can be a bit noticeable when driving in hilly terrain.

PS-- Not sure why everyone is thrilled about the Passat. That thing is huge! Like a boat. Why buy the extra space if you do not need it.

Originally Posted By: Nick R
AFAIK, thecritic had some rattle issues with his Prius as well. Then again, so did sciphi with his Cruze. I'd still say get the cruze, it's far more comfortable than the prius is, and the mpg might be a bit lower, if you drive carefully then you can still get excellent mpg, especially with the manual. And I stress the manual here. Automatic isn't bad, but you want the manual for mpg here.


I've driven a 2012 Cruze Eco, and I find my Prius to be far more comfortable. The driving position is quite narrow in the Cruze, especially the seats.
 
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I like the seats in my Cruze. Well, I'd better...

Prius or Cruze Eco are two good fuel-sippers. Although they're night-and-day different in every way possible. The Cruze really needs highway driving to shine. The Prius will do better in-town.

Best bet is to go drive the two, and decide what's more to taste.
 
Why are you saying that Prius has slightly more highway noise than other toyotas? What kind of noise is this? I test drove 2009 Prius a while back and the engine was very quiet, but there was some unusual transmission noise, almost like a whine... Do you have any transmission noises in 2011?

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Id go with a cruze eco or golf diesel over a prius.

Im not anti-prius, but MO they are better suited for shorter, round-town driving. For highway type use, great economy can be had from far simpler powertrains.

This may be true in theory but not in practice.

If your city trips are around 5-10 miles, your terrain is not 100% flat, and you have a heavier foot, you may find that the Prius will achieve low to mid 40s.

In the 12k+ that I've driven my 2011, I still find that long highway trips on flat terrain will yield much better fuel economy than any in-town driving, at least here in Monterey. On a recent trip from Tracy to Santa Cruz, I got about 52 while driving slightly above the speed limit. Around Monterey, I get 42-44.

As with any engine, it will operate most efficiently once warmed up. The Prius is no exception to this. As a result, short trip driving (10 miles or less) is detrimental to fuel economy. And the Prius is also exceptionally sensitive to driving style.

Originally Posted By: dkrivosheyev
I read a lot of reviews that Prius has a very refined quiet ride on the highway. Did anyone check what RPMs its engine turns at 80 MPH?


The Prius has slightly more road noise on the highway than most Toyotas, but still far less than a Honda Fit, for instance. On flat land, 80 mph should be no problem for the Prius (in fact, even 95+ is fine) and the engine will barely be audible. However, the engine noise can be a bit noticeable when driving in hilly terrain.

PS-- Not sure why everyone is thrilled about the Passat. That thing is huge! Like a boat. Why buy the extra space if you do not need it.

Originally Posted By: Nick R
AFAIK, thecritic had some rattle issues with his Prius as well. Then again, so did sciphi with his Cruze. I'd still say get the cruze, it's far more comfortable than the prius is, and the mpg might be a bit lower, if you drive carefully then you can still get excellent mpg, especially with the manual. And I stress the manual here. Automatic isn't bad, but you want the manual for mpg here.


I've driven a 2012 Cruze Eco, and I find my Prius to be far more comfortable. The driving position is quite narrow in the Cruze, especially the seats.
 
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Originally Posted By: dkrivosheyev
Why are you saying that Prius has slightly more highway noise than other toyotas? What kind of noise is this? I test drove 2009 Prius a while back and the engine was very quiet, but there was some unusual transmission noise, almost like a whine... Do you have any transmission noises in 2011?


The engine is much quieter in the 3rd gen models than in the 2nd gen 2009 that you test drove. The 3rd gen is also slightly quieter on the highway, so if you were satisfied with the 2nd gen, then you’ll be thrilled with the 3rd. I personally have higher standards, and felt that the Prius still has a bit more road and tire noise than a 4-cyl Camry, probably because the Prius is a bit lacking in insulating material.

And yes, there is some slight electrical/transmission hum or whine at times but it is not audible unless you have the windows down and are trying to listen for it.
 
I had a 2010 or 2011 Insight as a loaner car once from the local Honda dealer, and I rather liked it. It got super mileage (mid 40s for me as I recall) and was very light on its feet and fun to drive. I personally prefer a more upright driving position than Honda cars typically afford, but the car itself was pretty good I thought. It's based on the Honda Fit, and most folks recognize how good that basic chassis is.
 
Originally Posted By: odie
The INSIGHT is not as dependable as the PRIUS


You are being very nice and polite. My mechanic uses expletives when he talks about the Insight.
 
Oops , it was an '07 PRIUS w/ package 2 that we had . Traded in an '06 XB for it . Miss both cars . The PRIUS was very good in the snow , probably due to the battery being under the rear seats and near the rear wheels . No snow tires were used that winter and it did wonders w/o them .
 
I test drove 2011 Prius and 2012 Camry yesterday and to my surprise I was very impressed with this new Camry. The interior materials are very nice, it feels very solid and the highway noise is significantly less than in 2011 Prius. Prius feels very "different" than Camry, and you are right, the engine is quite noisy if you step on it compared the Camry's 2.5L that almost never goes above 3000 rpm

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: dkrivosheyev
Why are you saying that Prius has slightly more highway noise than other toyotas? What kind of noise is this? I test drove 2009 Prius a while back and the engine was very quiet, but there was some unusual transmission noise, almost like a whine... Do you have any transmission noises in 2011?


The engine is much quieter in the 3rd gen models than in the 2nd gen 2009 that you test drove. The 3rd gen is also slightly quieter on the highway, so if you were satisfied with the 2nd gen, then you’ll be thrilled with the 3rd. I personally have higher standards, and felt that the Prius still has a bit more road and tire noise than a 4-cyl Camry, probably because the Prius is a bit lacking in insulating material.

And yes, there is some slight electrical/transmission hum or whine at times but it is not audible unless you have the windows down and are trying to listen for it.
 
Were you able to test drive a new Camry Hybrid?

In fact, I thought the previous generation of Camry Hybrid's were close to the ideal "American" car. Big enough, comfortable, plenty powerful and capable. Especially nice in the higher end variants.

The newer version of the Camry Hybrid is still acceptable in price (I think) and should be even better, with better MPG, smaller battery pack, and much higher "Battery only" speeds.
 
Originally Posted By: dkrivosheyev
I am considering purchasing a new 2011 toyota prius assuming they will have some good end-of-year deals. I have a long commute to work each day and I also drive long distance (at least 300-400 miles) every couple of months. I am looking for a vehicle with a very smooth ride and very quiet interior at highway speeds, also with great fuel economy for $25K or below. Please tell me if prius is the best choice for this...


Our company has a few Priuses in the fleet (I think 2009 or so) and while they are great technology experiments they are horrible driving cars. They are noisy, don't have much get up and go and are a little on the loud side on the highway. I've had a bit of highway time in them and they are nothing special.

As others said, I'd look at the Fiesta, Focus, Cruze, Elantra, Mazda 3, or Golf if you want a decent small car. IMHO the Civic and Corolla are way overrated.
 
So is there any data on 2012 Toyota Camry reliability yet? I test drove it couple of weeks ago and really liked it over the Prius that I also test drove the same day. Camry just feels so much quieter and refined on the highway and acceleration is a lot better than in Prius. I am not sure that I am ready to make a final choice yet as I am still concerned about the fuel ecomony, and obviously being a first year model 2012 Camry may have problems... Any discussion would be appreciated.
 
Originally Posted By: dkrivosheyev
So is there any data on 2012 Toyota Camry reliability yet? I test drove it couple of weeks ago and really liked it over the Prius that I also test drove the same day. Camry just feels so much quieter and refined on the highway and acceleration is a lot better than in Prius. I am not sure that I am ready to make a final choice yet as I am still concerned about the fuel ecomony, and obviously being a first year model 2012 Camry may have problems... Any discussion would be appreciated.


You can always join "true delta dot comm" for some real world reliability information. However, I'm certain the '12 CH is not on the radar yet.

My thoughts are as follows: Toyota is reasonably safe bet, as they generally top the charts in reliability. Are they perfect? Nope. Generally good? Yup.

The 2012 CH is simply an updated version, and, as much as they would like you to think it's "all new", it's not. The improvements are ones that Toyota needed to make. As such, it is likely a better car than it's predecessor. As you know, Toyota has the expertise in this, they know what works, what breaks, what performs. All the upgrades have been good ones, as far as I can tell.

From my point of view, the CH is a top choice and will very likely be much more reliable and less expensive to own than, say, a VW diesel. But, probably not as fun to drive. It's also likely to hold it's value better than a non hybrid version of the same car.

I'd do it in a second if I were in the market for a sedan.

The MPG's seem to be hovering around 40 (plus or minus 2) both city and highway for the 2012 CH.

http://www.hybridcars.com/compacts-sedans/toyota-camry-hybrid-overview.html
 
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I really like 2012 CH too, but it is little out of my price range. I am trying to stay under 25K, so it is either a Prius or a non-hybrid Camry... In fact, a non-hybrid 2012 Camry is actually 2-3K less than 2012 Prius
 
The standard Camry gets 26.1 to 26.9 according to Fuel Economy dot gov real world results. That's a far cry from the CH, with the very same engine.

Also, I was able to get my local Toyota dealer to deal on the CH, down to 25K. List is 27K and there is some room for the dealer to nego. Costco members price and internet sales from far away, but competing dealers are often great bargaining points.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
The standard Camry gets 26.1 to 26.9 according to Fuel Economy dot gov real world results. That's a far cry from the CH, with the very same engine.

Also, I was able to get my local Toyota dealer to deal on the CH, down to 25K. List is 27K and there is some room for the dealer to nego. Costco members price and internet sales from far away, but competing dealers are often great bargaining points.



Was 25K OTD price?
 
No. 25K plus tax, tag, title. No dealer fee or other add ons though.

I re-read your earlier Camry post and for some stupid reason I thought you were talking about the CH. Not the standard Camry. Hence my response. I suppose reading comprehension is not my strong point! I feel like a dope!

Still I like the CH very much (as you know).
 
So when can we expect 2012 Prius be out? Still trying to decide between Prius and 2012 Camry. Is 2012 Prius any different than 2011?
 
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