2011 Honda Civic, M1 AFE 0w20 6.7k/40k

[steve20]

Originally Posted By: gpshumway
It's interesting, my engine is specifically back-spec'd by Honda for 0w20, and the same engine in 2012+ Civics specs only 0w20, so one would assume 0w20 would be safe. M1 AFE's specs indicate it's a bit thicker than many Xw20s, which is one reason I chose it, of course the UOA results indicate it shears quite a bit. In other markets this engine specs anything from 0w20 to 5w40, so Resource conserving 0w30 should be pretty safe. We'll see come the summer.


Alf,
At 101 K miles I switched my K24 Accord from 5-20 to 5-30, and lever looked back. One (well, maybe more than one) peek at the cam lobes was enough to tell me the 20 wt wasn't cutting it as far as protection goes. UOAs have been stellar-coming up on 200K miles
Oh, and Roob--your type of comments do not belong on the board
Steve

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: steve20
Alf,
At 101 K miles I switched my K24 Accord from 5-20 to 5-30, and lever looked back. One (well, maybe more than one) peek at the cam lobes was enough to tell me the 20 wt wasn't cutting it as far as protection goes. UOAs have been stellar-coming up on 200K miles

Steve


What was disturbing about the cam lobes? I assume the wear was arrested by heavier oil?

I'm leaning ever more strongly toward sampling the oil just before I change it next time and deciding which oil based upon that sample.

 

[INDYMAC]

It appears to me that your increased wear is being caused by increased silicon (dirt) ingestion. Try to find the source.

You're wasting your time doing UOA's if you're not going to correct the problems.

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
It appears to me that your increased wear is being caused by increased silicon (dirt) ingestion. Try to find the source.

You're wasting your time doing UOA's if you're not going to correct the problems.


Thank you for your condescending and useless comment, I'll take it under advisement. Now, try actually reading my previous UOA threads. I even gave you a convenient link. I did a bunch of searching for potential ingestion points and came to the conclusion that the factory installed air filter had leaky seals despite excellent workmanship. After changing the filer, the Silicon ingestion is down to acceptable and expected levels.

This is only the sixth oil fill ever on this car, and the first couple are expected to show high levels of Si due to RTV compounds washing out. I started working the problem in September 2012, ( UOA Thread )but when each iteration takes many months to complete, it takes a while to solve. The new air filter was installed in December of 2012.

Now, maybe consider an apology for your abrasive comment.

 

[INDYMAC]

Please accept my apology. If you are comfortable with it, then I am too.

 

[gpshumway]

Thanks, Indymac. Apology accepted.

I'd love to have single digit silicon readings, but ~15 ppm over 6.7k mi is pretty good. My WRX shows ~14ppm over 3.5k mi and it's driven by the same people in the same places, so the current Civic filter is not terrible.

Part of the problem is the lack of premium filters for this car, the Pure One, and Amsoil filters aren't available, and given the inconsistent quality of seals it's hard to say Fram or NAPA Gold (WIX) are better than the OEM filter (Filtech). The one remaining option is the AEM dryflow, which wasn't available locally, nevertheless, I've decided to try one at the next change, we'll see how it does. That'll be at ~50k miles or next year at this time.

That's what I meant by doing nothing. I've simply run out of ideas, and dirty filters filter better than clean ones any way, so waiting for the filter to load up is actually doing something to reduce Silicon.

 

[mr_diy]

Thanks for sharing your results.
I wonder if your results still have some new engine trending.

I had two OA's from a 2006 Civic (82k M1 and 99k PU) where I saw a big drop in Si (21 to 7)and Na (15 to
The other difference in my case was the 5W20 which had higher Zn and P (830 and 850). This may be a bigger factor than the weights. I will not get to a third OA on this engine, as I ended up trading this vehicle for a '13 due to the extraordinary Honda Dec incentives. After the first free OC I will likely continue to use the large 5W20 stock I have.

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: mr_diy
Thanks for sharing your results.
I wonder if your results still have some new engine trending.

I had two OA's from a 2006 Civic (82k M1 and 99k PU) where I saw a big drop in Si (21 to 7)and Na (15 to
The other difference in my case was the 5W20 which had higher Zn and P (830 and 850). This may be a bigger factor than the weights. I will not get to a third OA on this engine, as I ended up trading this vehicle for a '13 due to the extraordinary Honda Dec incentives. After the first free OC I will likely continue to use the large 5W20 stock I have.


Thanks for sharing your experience as well. This process has made me aware of a couple of things 1 - aluminum readings are much more volatile than I originally understood. See the recent pair of UOAs with Al readings 20 points apart on the same oil. ( LINK ) and 2 - I think I've come to the conclusion that the OEM filtech filters in these cars have inconsistent quality, or maybe the housings are to blame with variable amounts of waviness in the sealing surfaces. The fact that the housing is difficult to install doesn't help either.

Which of your oils was 5w20? The M1, the PU or both? 850 vs 830 Zn is within the lab variation so I don't think there's any significance there.

I guess it's possible it's still breaking in somehow, but I've got 40k mi on it now, that's an awful long break-in. Hope you're right though, if the break-in takes 40k mi imagine how long the engine will last.

 

[mr_diy]

All my Civic used was 5w20 which was the factory recommendation. The oil had higher anti-wear additives than your OA.
Check my old thread, OA down a bit. Civic OA

 

[Roob]

"Oh, and Roob--your type of comments do not belong on the board"
Steve

I asked my cat and she says your wrong.

Peace eh!