M1 AFE 0W30, 4300 mi, 03 Civic EX

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So my Civic has had some work done in the past 10k miles. Head gasket at 158k and crank seal and oil pan gasket at 164k. This oil was put in shortly after 164k. I expected silicon to be high from the work at 164k, and it was. Iron is still high from the HG change, but it's going down incrementally based on PPM/1000 mi. What I'm kind of stunned about is how much viscosity the M1 AFE 0w30 lost. I've heard it does lose a lot of viscosity with use, but was not expecting it to go from 11 ->8.6 in an engine without DI. I'm wondering if there was some fuel involved because the one VOA I have of this oil shows a starting flashpoint of 455, while the flashpoint in this UOA was 410. I knew the TBN would be high, but I got it anyway just out of curiosity. 5.2 indicates it could've gone a lot longer. Here's the oil report:
03 Civic 110222.jpg


And here is a breakdown of PPM/1000 miles, compared to Universal Averages:
110222 breakdown.jpg


You can see everything compares favorably to Universal Averages except Iron and Silicon.

The oil that went in was Valvoline MaxLife 150K 5W20. I'll change and sample in 6 months.
 
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Yea that 0w30 is designed for fuel economy, so it’s not a surprise that it does so by thinning out. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’m surprised iron and silicon isn’t going down after all the flushes.
 

himemsys

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Yea that 0w30 is designed for fuel economy, so it’s not a surprise that it does so by thinning out. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’m surprised iron and silicon isn’t going down after all the flushes.
For iron, look at the miles on each UOA, they keep going up, so PPM/1000 miles is improving each OC. PPM/1000 mi, starting from 1/17/21 OC: 56ppm->23.5ppm->6ppm->5.5ppm

Silicon did not improve on last OC because of the crank seal and oil pan work, which was done after the first 3 flushes. But the same basic trend is here: 81ppm->50ppm->11.7ppm->13.9ppm.
 
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What I'm kind of stunned about is how much viscosity the M1 AFE 0w30 lost.

This particular grade of M1 has always been shear prone. Viscosity retention is very poor. I think it's by design honestly to potentially pick up a small gain in MPG. Still wouldn't be happy with it.
 
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himemsys

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This particular grade of M1 has always been shear prone. Viscosity retention is very poor. I think it's by design honestly to potentially pick up a small gain in MPG. Still wouldn't be happy with it.
This is a silly thought, but I just looked at several UOAs that used M1 AFE 0W30 (including my own) and they are all over the place. But it seemed as if the ending viscosity was always close to the car's recommended viscosity. Is it possible the oil will shear down to the car's preferred viscosity? Or am I talking out of my ***? LOL

@OVERKILL because you may be able to answer.
 

OVERKILL

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This is a silly thought, but I just looked at several UOAs that used M1 AFE 0W30 (including my own) and they are all over the place. But it seemed as if the ending viscosity was always close to the car's recommended viscosity. Is it possible the oil will shear down to the car's preferred viscosity? Or am I talking out of my ***? LOL

@OVERKILL because you may be able to answer.
I think @buster isn't off in his interpretation, this is a product designed to be a "light" xW-30, and due to the fuel economy focus, does lose a bit of viscosity in service.

That said, it was one of the best performing oil in our Expedition with no consumption and so I don't think its viscosity loss is that big of a handicap.
 
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They always rated the high temperature peformance of the AFE oils above standard M1 fwiw. Still a good oil in many other areas. I have no idea if they did it intentionally or not just a thought.
 
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I think @buster isn't off in his interpretation, this is a product designed to be a "light" xW-30, and due to the fuel economy focus, does lose a bit of viscosity in service.

That said, it was one of the best performing oil in our Expedition with no consumption and so I don't think its viscosity loss is that big of a handicap.
So all this talk has me wondering- I know HTHS/HTFS and viscosity are related; is it possible for an oil to lose viscosity permanently yet still maintain HTHS? Or, without putting fuel into the equation, is it safe to say that viscosity will bottom out at some point that is equal to the HTFS? Honest questions; I’m wondering if there’s some measurable correlation that could be used to give an idea of where an oil may end up in a “worst case” scenario.

David @High Performance Lubricants: is this logical or is it a pipe dream?
 

OVERKILL

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So all this talk has me wondering- I know HTHS/HTFS and viscosity are related; is it possible for an oil to lose viscosity permanently yet still maintain HTHS? Or, without putting fuel into the equation, is it safe to say that viscosity will bottom out at some point that is equal to the HTFS? Honest questions; I’m wondering if there’s some measurable correlation that could be used to give an idea of where an oil may end up in a “worst case” scenario.

David @High Performance Lubricants: is this logical or is it a pipe dream?
Well, an oil with a decent BO KV100 but cheap VII will shear but its HTFS visc won't be compromised.
 

FZ1

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himemsys

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It's a good report. Big picture, there's lotsa iron in that engine and the 8.57 is still thick enough to keep the parts separated.
Funny, the part you quoted was me showing that other UOAs with the same oil tend to end with a viscosity close to what that car specs. So in the cars that spec a 30 grade, AFE 0W30 looks to end at a 30 grade. Cars that spec a 20 grade tend to end at a 20 grade.

As for the iron, I am seeing a downward trend in PPM/1000 miles since the head gasket was changed. Because I drive only ~5000 mi/year, it's going to take awhile for the iron to get closer to universal averages.

Thanks!
 
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FZ1

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Funny, the part you quoted was me showing that other UOAs with the same oil tend to end with a viscosity close to what that car specs. So in the cars that spec a 30 grade, AFE 0W30 looks to end at a 30 grade. Cars that spec a 20 grade tend to end at a 20 grade.

As for the iron, I am seeing a downward trend in PPM/1000 miles since the head gasket was changed. Because I drive only ~5000 mi/year, it's going to take awhile for the iron to get closer to universal averages.

Thanks!
I was just observing that the iron was not a problem, re longevity, and that the vis at 8.57 was still high, enough, to keep the parts separated. Agree, It was a lot of sheer.
 
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