2009 Kawasaki Concours 14, 3889 mi., Rotella
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I contacted Blackstone with the following concerns:
--Does Blackstone have a definitive test for antifreeze or do they come up with the antifreeze figure based on the amount of sodium they find?
--Could the sodium in my UOA have come from a previous run of Valvoline motorcycle oil (2 OCIs ago)?
Should I be talking to the dealer regarding a warranty claim for a bad head gasket etc.?
To synopsize, they stated that they base their antifreeze findings on the presence of sodium--not a definitive test for antifreeze. They state that sodium could come from oil additives and may NOT mean that antifreeze is present in the oil. Regarding my UOA, they thought that the amount present may / may not have come from the Valvoline m/c oil that I'd previously run--their recommendation is to do another UOA and observe the trend of the sodium. If it comes back high again, then it likely means antifreeze.
I've got almost 3000 miles on my current OCI and will probably do the UOA as soon as I get a sample kit from Blackstone. I've been watching my antifreeze level in the reservoir and it MAY be slightly lower on the reference line, but that could be from cooler ambient temps lately. . .and by lower, I'm talking about 2mm maybe. . .
Thanks for all the comments!
--Does Blackstone have a definitive test for antifreeze or do they come up with the antifreeze figure based on the amount of sodium they find?
--Could the sodium in my UOA have come from a previous run of Valvoline motorcycle oil (2 OCIs ago)?
Should I be talking to the dealer regarding a warranty claim for a bad head gasket etc.?
To synopsize, they stated that they base their antifreeze findings on the presence of sodium--not a definitive test for antifreeze. They state that sodium could come from oil additives and may NOT mean that antifreeze is present in the oil. Regarding my UOA, they thought that the amount present may / may not have come from the Valvoline m/c oil that I'd previously run--their recommendation is to do another UOA and observe the trend of the sodium. If it comes back high again, then it likely means antifreeze.
I've got almost 3000 miles on my current OCI and will probably do the UOA as soon as I get a sample kit from Blackstone. I've been watching my antifreeze level in the reservoir and it MAY be slightly lower on the reference line, but that could be from cooler ambient temps lately. . .and by lower, I'm talking about 2mm maybe. . .
Thanks for all the comments!
My Ninja 1000 sheared 15W-40 Rotella to a mid 30 weight in 2100 miles. I think that level of shearing is par for the course. We fret about about it endlessly here but everyone knows it's going to happen including the engine designers.
Watch the wear numbers and don't worry about the viscosity. If the wear numbers are good who cares about the shearing.
Watch the wear numbers and don't worry about the viscosity. If the wear numbers are good who cares about the shearing.
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OK. . I just did another UOA on 12/8/11 at 2824 miles on the oil. It would appear that the Kawasaki Concours 14 is the machine that can bring the mighty Rotella to it's knees! After only 2824 miles it has sheared out of grade. Can anyone tell me what grade it has sheared down to? Frankly, I'm disappointed in the Rotella. . .I'd heard so much good about it's shear stability etc.
I replaced the Rotella T with Mobil 1 4T 10w-40--I'm hoping it'll stay in grade better than the Rotella. Here's the link to the UOA:
2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 UOA 12/8/11
I replaced the Rotella T with Mobil 1 4T 10w-40--I'm hoping it'll stay in grade better than the Rotella. Here's the link to the UOA:
2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 UOA 12/8/11
robster,
well, it is not that clear, cut and dried.
so while your 63.7 is a 30wt, i instantly saw the 360 flash and knew something was off.
you had 1.3% fuel. which will KILL the susvis.
that much fuel may be just enough to bring that susvis down to the 30wt.
oh, um, that 10w40 you just put in that is all nice and spendy, will be MUCH lower than the SRT you just took out. nobodys 10w40 holds up.
btw, the rest of your report looks pretty darn good.
fix the fuel issue.
how was the sample taken?
steve
well, it is not that clear, cut and dried.
so while your 63.7 is a 30wt, i instantly saw the 360 flash and knew something was off.
you had 1.3% fuel. which will KILL the susvis.
that much fuel may be just enough to bring that susvis down to the 30wt.
oh, um, that 10w40 you just put in that is all nice and spendy, will be MUCH lower than the SRT you just took out. nobodys 10w40 holds up.
btw, the rest of your report looks pretty darn good.
fix the fuel issue.
how was the sample taken?
steve
Thanks Steve. . .the fuel is probably because the day I drained the sample was really cold and I probably didn't warm the engine up enough to burn it off before draining--my bad.
I realize the fuel will impact the viscosity to an extent, but in almost 5 quarts of oil I wouldn't have expected that level of shear for 1.3% dilution?
At any rate, I'm not going to obsess over it. . .the recommended OCI for this bike is 7500 miles with 10w-40. . .I'm thinking if I do 5000 mile OCIs the bike engine will probably outlast me.
I realize the fuel will impact the viscosity to an extent, but in almost 5 quarts of oil I wouldn't have expected that level of shear for 1.3% dilution?
At any rate, I'm not going to obsess over it. . .the recommended OCI for this bike is 7500 miles with 10w-40. . .I'm thinking if I do 5000 mile OCIs the bike engine will probably outlast me.
its hard to find "bad" oils (well unless you use castrol gtx) but if wear metals dont rise, use whatever you want and be happy.
i tend to be more happy with great results from lower cost products.
i tend to be more happy with great results from lower cost products.
Originally Posted By: sunruh
its hard to find "bad" oils (well unless you use castrol gtx) but if wear metals dont rise, use whatever you want and be happy.
i tend to be more happy with great results from lower cost products.
So, you think the Mobil 1 will shear down as bad as the Rotella? I'll be doing a UOA on it, but it'll probably be next summer before I do it. . .
--Rob
2009 Kawasaki Concours 14: "The new oil quality testing device"
its hard to find "bad" oils (well unless you use castrol gtx) but if wear metals dont rise, use whatever you want and be happy.
i tend to be more happy with great results from lower cost products.
So, you think the Mobil 1 will shear down as bad as the Rotella? I'll be doing a UOA on it, but it'll probably be next summer before I do it. . .
--Rob
2009 Kawasaki Concours 14: "The new oil quality testing device"
Originally Posted By: Robster
Originally Posted By: sunruh
its hard to find "bad" oils (well unless you use castrol gtx) but if wear metals dont rise, use whatever you want and be happy.
i tend to be more happy with great results from lower cost products.
So, you think the Mobil 1 will shear down as bad as the Rotella? I'll be doing a UOA on it, but it'll probably be next summer before I do it. . .
If your fuel dilution doesn't improve, it'll cause any oil to thin, including this M1 that you're using.
But some thinning over the course of an OCI is to be expected and not necessarily a cause for concern. After all, it doesn't appear to be hurting anything in your case.
As for the antifreeze issues, try a different lab next time, the one that actually does test for antifreeze by FTIR. Wearcheck comes to mind, and they're actually cheaper than Blackstone. There are others...
Originally Posted By: sunruh
its hard to find "bad" oils (well unless you use castrol gtx) but if wear metals dont rise, use whatever you want and be happy.
i tend to be more happy with great results from lower cost products.
So, you think the Mobil 1 will shear down as bad as the Rotella? I'll be doing a UOA on it, but it'll probably be next summer before I do it. . .
If your fuel dilution doesn't improve, it'll cause any oil to thin, including this M1 that you're using.
But some thinning over the course of an OCI is to be expected and not necessarily a cause for concern. After all, it doesn't appear to be hurting anything in your case.
As for the antifreeze issues, try a different lab next time, the one that actually does test for antifreeze by FTIR. Wearcheck comes to mind, and they're actually cheaper than Blackstone. There are others...
Thanks. . .I'll give WearCheck a try next time maybe. As I said before, I believe the fuel dilution was a sampling error on my part (engine didn't get hot enough, long enough). Fuel wasn't a problem in the previous UOA.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Robster
Originally Posted By: sunruh
its hard to find "bad" oils (well unless you use castrol gtx) but if wear metals dont rise, use whatever you want and be happy.
i tend to be more happy with great results from lower cost products.
So, you think the Mobil 1 will shear down as bad as the Rotella? I'll be doing a UOA on it, but it'll probably be next summer before I do it. . .
If your fuel dilution doesn't improve, it'll cause any oil to thin, including this M1 that you're using.
But some thinning over the course of an OCI is to be expected and not necessarily a cause for concern. After all, it doesn't appear to be hurting anything in your case.
As for the antifreeze issues, try a different lab next time, the one that actually does test for antifreeze by FTIR. Wearcheck comes to mind, and they're actually cheaper than Blackstone. There are others...
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Robster
Originally Posted By: sunruh
its hard to find "bad" oils (well unless you use castrol gtx) but if wear metals dont rise, use whatever you want and be happy.
i tend to be more happy with great results from lower cost products.
So, you think the Mobil 1 will shear down as bad as the Rotella? I'll be doing a UOA on it, but it'll probably be next summer before I do it. . .
If your fuel dilution doesn't improve, it'll cause any oil to thin, including this M1 that you're using.
But some thinning over the course of an OCI is to be expected and not necessarily a cause for concern. After all, it doesn't appear to be hurting anything in your case.
As for the antifreeze issues, try a different lab next time, the one that actually does test for antifreeze by FTIR. Wearcheck comes to mind, and they're actually cheaper than Blackstone. There are others...
Rob, last fall I sent in a sample of Amsoil MCF 10-40, with 4000 milse on it in my Can Am Rt which uses the same oil in its
transmission. The vicosity numbers were almost identical to yours on your first test. I expected better from Amsoil and will give it one more try when I hit the next 4K mark.
transmission. The vicosity numbers were almost identical to yours on your first test. I expected better from Amsoil and will give it one more try when I hit the next 4K mark.
Originally Posted By: tc1446
Rob, last fall I sent in a sample of Amsoil MCF 10-40, with 4000 milse on it in my Can Am Rt which uses the same oil in its
transmission. The vicosity numbers were almost identical to yours on your first test. I expected better from Amsoil and will give it one more try when I hit the next 4K mark.
I think it's just the nature of 10w-40 in shared-sump motorcycle applications--it gets pretty beat up. I'm not sure any 10w-40 is gonna go unscathed in that situation. I've got Mobil 1 4T in it now. . .I'll do a UOA on it this summer for a comparison with the Rotella. If it isn't much better, I'll probably go back to Rotella 15w-40 and call it a day.
Rob, last fall I sent in a sample of Amsoil MCF 10-40, with 4000 milse on it in my Can Am Rt which uses the same oil in its
transmission. The vicosity numbers were almost identical to yours on your first test. I expected better from Amsoil and will give it one more try when I hit the next 4K mark.
I think it's just the nature of 10w-40 in shared-sump motorcycle applications--it gets pretty beat up. I'm not sure any 10w-40 is gonna go unscathed in that situation. I've got Mobil 1 4T in it now. . .I'll do a UOA on it this summer for a comparison with the Rotella. If it isn't much better, I'll probably go back to Rotella 15w-40 and call it a day.
in my tests m1 4t 10w40 didnt hold up.
im sure you will find the same.
10w40 just doesnt cut it.
im sure you will find the same.
10w40 just doesnt cut it.
UPDATE #2
OK. . .the plot thickens (doesn't shear like the oil). . .hehehe
Anyway, on the first few rides of this season I noticed that on start-up I'm getting a puff of smoke from around the front of the engine. . .I checked some Concours forums and determined that its not uncommon for the header bolts to be loose from the factory. I dropped the bike at the dealer to have that checked.
Yesterday, I was notified that a new head-gasket and other associated parts are on order for my bike--I guess Blackstone may have been right about the anti-freeze contamination?
I do have a question for you guys. . . .Do you think any internal damage / excess wear could have been done as a result of the contamination? Blackstone calculated a .11% amount, which seems like a very small amount in a 4.5 quart sump. The bike is still under warranty and will be for another year, so I'm not too concerned. . .thoughts?
OK. . .the plot thickens (doesn't shear like the oil). . .hehehe
Anyway, on the first few rides of this season I noticed that on start-up I'm getting a puff of smoke from around the front of the engine. . .I checked some Concours forums and determined that its not uncommon for the header bolts to be loose from the factory. I dropped the bike at the dealer to have that checked.
Yesterday, I was notified that a new head-gasket and other associated parts are on order for my bike--I guess Blackstone may have been right about the anti-freeze contamination?
I do have a question for you guys. . . .Do you think any internal damage / excess wear could have been done as a result of the contamination? Blackstone calculated a .11% amount, which seems like a very small amount in a 4.5 quart sump. The bike is still under warranty and will be for another year, so I'm not too concerned. . .thoughts?
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