2009 Kawasaki Concours 14, 3889 mi., Rotella

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My first run of Shell Rotella T 15w-40 in my Connie. The sodium they mention in the comment section is probably from the Valvoline I ran in the prior OCI.

I was surprised that the oil sheared as much as it did, but this bike is a shared sump system and it saw a lot of summertime heat. The good soluable count tells me the Fram filter I run worked well.

Can someone tell me what this oil sheared down to? Would Rotella Syn 5w-40 hold up better to the shearing?

--Rob

2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 oil analysis
 
Nice bike. I'd try a more robust oil since it doesn't look like Rotella held up all that well with viscosity.
 
on the lower end of 30wt.
but the anti-freeze may be a factor in that.
the alum and copper may or not be high.
the iron may or not also be high.
even the tin of 5 is somewhat interesting.

no the 5w40 does not hold up as well in my experience.

what did you refill with?

steve
 
Originally Posted By: sunruh
on the lower end of 30wt.
but the anti-freeze may be a factor in that.
the alum and copper may or not be high.
the iron may or not also be high.
even the tin of 5 is somewhat interesting.

no the 5w40 does not hold up as well in my experience.

what did you refill with?

steve



I refilled with the same--Rotella T. . .I now have almost 3000 miles on that, so I'll probably change it out in a few weeks and do another analysis just for grins. The higher metals don't really bother me for now. . .I'm guessing that it's still breaking in. I don't think there's antifreeze in the last sample. . .I didn't add any and the resevervoir is full. . I believe it's residual sodium from the Valvoline.
 
Originally Posted By: sunruh
read your report again

antifreeze % 0.11


I did notice that, but I thought they calculated that percentage based on the sodium that was detected. . .also, wouldn't there be more than trace amounts of potassium if antifreeze was present? The next analysis should be interesting. . .if it (antifreeze) shows up again I guess it's time to go to the dealer for a warranty claim. As a side note, this bike runs great. . .

Thanks for your comments sunruh. . . .
 
Originally Posted By: kballowe
I can't open the attachment. MacAfee anti-virus blocks the site.

Is it the 5W-40 or the 15W-40?


It's the 15w-40 Rotella T. . . and McAfee?. . .that is the "Fram" of antivirus software. . .you can get better for a lot less money. . . just my two cents.
 
yes i think it would be worth an email or call to the stoners to ask why they think antifreeze is in the oil.

i have had uoa's with sodium that dont show antifreeze, so this is very curious.

also the tin of 5 is either a whole lot of background scatter (and that would suck, making the report worthless) or you are really shedding tin (a plain bearing maybe?).

i would suggest you try to run the exact same miles and send in a uoa.

steve
 
Originally Posted By: sunruh
yes i think it would be worth an email or call to the stoners to ask why they think antifreeze is in the oil.

i have had uoa's with sodium that dont show antifreeze, so this is very curious.

also the tin of 5 is either a whole lot of background scatter (and that would suck, making the report worthless) or you are really shedding tin (a plain bearing maybe?).

i would suggest you try to run the exact same miles and send in a uoa.

steve


If you read the comments section, they state that the sodium "could" mean the presence of antifreeze. . . it sounds like they noted the antifreeze based on the sodium amounts. At any rate, I emailed them and asked for an explanation. . .will let you know.
 
The 5w40 would be a 20 weight under the same condition.

Your bike is just now at the point wear metals should begin to decline, with only 8,000 mile.

4000 miles on the oil, I say not bad, its not a Goldwing. Goldwings produce some of the best wear numbers Ive seen, but thats not typical.

The antifreeze, seems odd, its not much, hopefully that goes away.

IMO if you want to run the same interval or higher requiring a more robust oil, try Maxima4exta or something like amsoil 20w50 or mobil1 vtwin 20w50
 
Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
The 5w40 would be a 20 weight under the same condition.

Your bike is just now at the point wear metals should begin to decline, with only 8,000 mile.

4000 miles on the oil, I say not bad, its not a Goldwing. Goldwings produce some of the best wear numbers Ive seen, but thats not typical.

The antifreeze, seems odd, its not much, hopefully that goes away.

IMO if you want to run the same interval or higher requiring a more robust oil, try Maxima4exta or something like amsoil 20w50 or mobil1 vtwin 20w50



Thanks for the comments. . .frankly, I'm a little surprised at how much this oil sheared down, after all the talk about how it's shear-resistant, good add-pack etc. The manual specs a 10w-40 oil and the recommended OCI is 7500 miles. . .I don't think so! When I drained the Valvoline 10w-40 on the first OCI it came out like water, but I didn't have that analyzed. . that would have been interesting!

This bike obviously beats the oil up pretty well. . .it has a shared sump and maybe the variable valve timing takes a toll on it as well, but I'm not sure how the mechanics of that works, other than it uses hydraulic pressure (engine oil) to vary the valve timing somehow.

This OCI included a lot of varied ambient conditions. I did a 1600 mile trip over a span of several days in some really nasty wet, cool conditions (raining sideways at points), summertime stop / go in 90+ temps with the electric fans operating frequently, some spirited riding through hilly, twisty roads, and a few short commutes to work.

As for the 20w-50, the manual does spec that weight for use above 32F, which is fine by me, but the RECOMMENDED weight is 10w-40, which is why I went with the Rotella T, thinking that it would be a solid compromise. After the next analysis I'll figure out if I'm gonna change weights / brands.
 
Originally Posted By: Robster
I'm a little surprised at how much this oil sheared down, after all the talk about how it's shear-resistant, good add-pack etc...


Most of the talk here is just fan boy chat. If you want to run the Rotella for short intervals, it works fine in some cases. First get the engine issues sorted out - if there really is a coolant leak, get it confirmed - maybe a different lab, second sample before you go other diagnostic techniques.

Bottom line - well made group IV/V oils will always be more shear resistant than group III containing oils. It's the nature of the base oils. I'm not telling you to change brands, nor is this UOA horrible by any stretch - I'm just writing stuff that is always thrown at me. There is no miracle oil, it's like all engineering decisions, oil choices have trade offs.
 
And I'll add what Pablo didn't say...that the Amsoil motorcycle oil is the way to go for a very shear stable oil that will likely do the 7,500mi OCI that Kawasaki recommends with ease; it is really a super stable oil in shared sump applications.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Robster
I'm a little surprised at how much this oil sheared down, after all the talk about how it's shear-resistant, good add-pack etc...


Most of the talk here is just fan boy chat. If you want to run the Rotella for short intervals, it works fine in some cases. First get the engine issues sorted out - if there really is a coolant leak, get it confirmed - maybe a different lab, second sample before you go other diagnostic techniques.

Bottom line - well made group IV/V oils will always be more shear resistant than group III containing oils. It's the nature of the base oils. I'm not telling you to change brands, nor is this UOA horrible by any stretch - I'm just writing stuff that is always thrown at me. There is no miracle oil, it's like all engineering decisions, oil choices have trade offs.


Pablo. . .do you think Amsoil 10w-40 m/c oil would be more shear-stable than the Rotella T? I'd really like to stick to the recommended 10w-40 weight if possible. . .
 
That Amsoil oil looks shear stable given the low ratio of KV@100C to HTHS of 3.11. Also, check out that data sheet...there is a Kurt Kobain shear stability test! Who knew!?
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
That Amsoil oil looks shear stable given the low ratio of KV@100C to HTHS of 3.11. Also, check out that data sheet...there is a Kurt Kobain shear stability test! Who knew!?


hehehehhe. . .I hope it's more stable than Kobain. . . .
 
Here's my plan. . .I'm still waiting for Blackstone to get back to me on my question about the antifreeze, but in the mean time I've decided to ditch the Rotella T. . .given the shearing, I don't think it's a good fit for this engine. That being said, I'll probably take Pablo's advice and go with a synthetic 10w-40 motorcycle oil. I'll either go with Amsoil or Mobil 1. . .I'll check around tomorrow to see if I can find Amsoil locally at a decent price. . if not Advance Auto sells the 4T for $9.99 / qt.

The wear metals in the aformentioned analysis don't really concern me at this point. . .I think it's probably typical break-in wear and will go away with time / miles. I WOULD like to get an answer from Blackstone on the antifreeze issue however. . .hopefully tomorrow.
 
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