2003 Toyota Echo with increasing oil consumption

[AKhan87]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Maybe someone else can chime in, but I've come to the conclusion that engines 'just wear out' maybe with less tension on the rings due to "thousands" of heat/cooling cycles et al and can't be tracked to one particular 'situation' in the motor other than 380K miles and a cumulative effect on the entire motor.
my experience is only with those motors I have listed, I'm at 70+ motor rebuilt in the last 2 years, especially the 1zz-fe, most of whose history was known to me, engines don't "just wear out". Following good maintenance schedules can slow if not prevent issues, I can only speak for these specific engines, what your saying might be true for your Echo's engine as I have never touched a Toyota ECHO before.

I have done 1zz-fes with up to 360-385-399k miles on them, a simple rebuild with a full cleaning/new rings/new seals and without changing any of the bearings, the engines ran almost perfectly.

The 399k is now at 430k without any issues and no more further oil loss, this particular owner did 15k oci on dino motor oil 95% highway driving before, now I suggested that he use a fully synthetic at least, and he has done this.

 

[Nick1994]

1.75 quarts in 5,000 miles isn't bad in a 1ZZFE. Just top off and keep on going.

 

[AKhan87]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
1.75 quarts in 5,000 miles isn't bad in a 1ZZFE. Just top off and keep on going.
The echo doesn't have the 1zz-fe

 

[Merkava_4]

Chevron 5W-30 is on the thin side of a 30 weight.

You might ask Garak what he recommends for a non-ILSAC 30 weight.

 

[Quest]

340k on the odo and uses 1.75qts every oil change? That's chump change!

Nothing bad about that engine given it's mileage. I'd use whatever that can keep that engine burns less oil and runs it until the body panels fall apart (or rusts apart).

Q.

 

[Garak]

Well, Merk, you heard from Gokhan that 10w-30 is too thin.

If it were me, I'd stick with a basic conventional and not worry. That's consumption isn't too bad. Or, I'd grab some MaxLife or something similar and gave it a shot. A higher HTHS 5w-30 might work, but it won't be as cheap as the conventional competition.

 

[kschachn]

Like was pointed out, that's a 1NZ-FE engine not a 1ZZ-FE. And your consumption isn't bad or out of line.

The suggestions in this thread border on the insane with rebuilding and additives. Just get over your silly objection to high mileage oils and try one, see if it helps reduce the consumption. It's not as if it's going to hurt anything, what do you possibly think is going to happen?

 

[bullwinkle]

I'd be hitting a WM for some of that full syn Maxlife 10W30, in the silver bottle, or even the red ML blend, to see if it makes a difference. At 380K, that little 200 pound all aluminum 1.5 doesn't really owe you anything!

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt

I have done 1zz-fes with up to 360-385-399k miles on them, a simple rebuild with a full cleaning/new rings/new seals and without changing any of the bearings, the engines ran almost perfectly.

The 399k is now at 430k without any issues and no more further oil loss, this particular owner did 15k oci on dino motor oil 95% highway driving before, now I suggested that he use a fully synthetic at least, and he has done this.


How much does it cost to do a simple rebuild on this type of engine? I'm surprised there are that many people that would spend the money of a rebuild instead of junking the car.

 

[tig1]

Since your Toyota has a lot of miles, then ring coking may be the problem, especially if you have used dino for the engines life. You might try a piston flush with MMO, and start using M1 10-30 HM. Just a thought.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts

Maybe someone else can chime in, but I've come to the conclusion that engines 'just wear out' maybe with less tension on the rings due to "thousands" of heat/cooling cycles et al and can't be tracked to one particular 'situation' in the motor other than 380K miles and a cumulative effect on the entire motor.
Exactly, internal combustion engines have been wearing out since their invention... For the most part today's engines are marvelous examples of engineering, but they still wear out... Besides ring and cylinder bore wear, worn valve guides and or seals are probably as least as often the culprit...

I'd bet the discontinuing of M1 SM has zero to do with issue, it's just getting tired... Of course doesn't mean it won't run another 100K mi, just will require adding oil once in a while...

Originally Posted By: kschachn
The suggestions in this thread border on the insane with rebuilding and additives. Just get over your silly objection to high mileage oils and try one, see if it helps reduce the consumption. It's not as if it's going to hurt anything, what do you possibly think is going to happen?


THIS^^^^^

 

[Greasymechtech]

Consider a 5w40 or 0w40. Use the HM oil or rebuild it.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
10W-30 is too thin and won't help. In my experience, 15W-40 consumption was 2/5 of 5W-30 before I replaced my valve-stem oil seals -- then zero consumption even with 0W-20.

Given that you live in a very cold climate, I wouldn't use 15W-40.

Conventional 10W-40 would be a great choice in your case. Look one with a high KV100. For example PYB 10W-40 SN with its 15.3 cSt KV100 is pretty thick for example -- as thick as a typical 15W-40. It would reduce your consumption from 1.75 qt to 0.70 qt per 5,000 miles.

If consumption is tolerable, You can also use M1 0W-40 SN if you like. It's a lot thinner with 13.5 cSt though. It's cheap at Walmart and on Amazon. It's an extremely premium oil that will clean your engine very well, allow longer OCIs, and keep the wear minimal.

I am no longer a fan of dual-rated HDEOs. Rotella for example lacks friction modifiers, which makes it less suitable for PCMO applications. They are also more tuned for HDEO applications. There is talk of getting rid of dual rating in the upcoming API CK category.

Back in the 1990s, auto-parts stores would ask you how many miles you had your on your car when you asked for oil recommendation. They would say if you had less than 100,000 miles, you should use 10W-30, and if you have more than 100,000 miles, you should use 10W-40.

No, you don't need a "high-mileage oil." Thicker oil = high-mileage oil.

 

[AKhan87]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt

I have done 1zz-fes with up to 360-385-399k miles on them, a simple rebuild with a full cleaning/new rings/new seals and without changing any of the bearings, the engines ran almost perfectly.

The 399k is now at 430k without any issues and no more further oil loss, this particular owner did 15k oci on dino motor oil 95% highway driving before, now I suggested that he use a fully synthetic at least, and he has done this.


How much does it cost to do a simple rebuild on this type of engine? I'm surprised there are that many people that would spend the money of a rebuild instead of junking the car.
OEM bearings $180, full fel-pro gasket set ~$75 from AAP with discounts, ~$28 EngineTech Rings from rockauto, I obviously once put all the tools together a novice would need ~$150-200.

but $180+75+28 doesn't seem too much to me, but obviously not everyone is able to rent an engine horse and pull the motor and rebuild this themselves, I can.

 

[carguy]

Thanks for all of the input guys! I love cars and I do all the maintenance on mine by the book or better. This has by far been the best car I have ever owned. I switched from synthetic to Dino once the oil consumption started. Maybe I should go back? I know that oil use is normal as a car ages. I just thought I would turn to the oil experts here to see if I should consider doing anything else. The reason I'm not a fan of high mileage oils is that I used to have a 1982 Toyota 4WD pickup. I tried using Valvoline high mileage oil and it stopped some leaks briefly and then suddenly it started leaking far worse than it seemed like it would had I left it alone. That truck had 352k on it when I sold it and I think this car may go farther. One thing I've also noticed is that when I was using Mobil, the oil appeared to get dirty whereas with the chevron the oil stays looking cleaner longer and the engine sounds quieter to me. I don't know what that means exactly. Thanks for all of the help!

 

[fdcg27]

The consumption you're seeing is typical of a high miles engine and doesn't seem too bad.
No doubt that the little dear has some wear on it after 340K.
I don't think that you have either stuck rings or clogged holes in the lands.
If you did, you'd see much higher oil consumption.
I wouldn't worry at all about using a quart of oil every 3K or so.
If it bothers you, try a HDEO 5W-40 or maybe M1 or Castrol 0W-40.
Either might reduce consumption while maintaining good cold performance, which you need where you live.
Any of these would cost quite a bit more than the oil you're using now, including the adds.
This Echo owes you nothing at this point.
You've certainly driven your money out of it and every additional month of use is like a bonus.
Keep us posted now and then on how the car is doing.
Maybe you can see 400K?

 

[carguy]

Yes. If it died today, I couldn't complain. It's been a real fun little car. What do you guys think of the Chevron oil?

 

[Lubener]

A quart per 2800 miles with 340k, what are you expecting? Just maintain the oil level. That consumption is nothing to worry about.

 

[carguy]

As stated before, I know oil use is normal with age. I was just curious what if anything this board recommends and what I may learn here. Thanks.

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: carguy
Yes. If it died today, I couldn't complain. It's been a real fun little car. What do you guys think of the Chevron oil?


I've been getting over 200,000 miles out of many engines on Delo400 (gasser's). For a step up I use Chevron Supreme for new engine break-in and have a long time. Both are well respected oils

but, I'm slowly moving to Valvoline Maxlife for the higher mileage cars (over 100K) just to help keep the seals soft and compliant