2002 Chevy Venture, Amsoil S3K 5W30 HDD, 6650 mile

[il_signore97]

Hi everyone,

Here is another sample from my mother's Venture Van. As you can see from the previous UOA's, the van had an internal coolant leak, which has since been fixed. The two most recent UOA's are after the gasket repair (the second from the left was the first fill of oil right after the repair), and the left most (bold) column was just drained and sampled a few weeks ago. There was one fill of TSO that was not analyzed between the most recent and the second most recent UOA's below. Before this last fill of HDD was added, Amsoil Engine flush was used to clean things up prior to draining the TSO and adding the HDD.

Here are the vehicle particulars:

2002 Chevrolet Venture Van
3.4 L V6
Amsoil EaO29 used in all UOA's
AC/Delco Standard Air Filter used in all UOA's

The van does mostly short trips (only a couple of minutes each), with some long distance boat trailer towing thrown in there every other weekend or so. Some highway driving occurs about once a week (in addition to the trailer towing).

Here are the analysis particulars (most recent to the LEFT, oldest to the RIGHT):

Date Oct9/07 Feb11/07 Sep9/06 May2/06 ?
Oil Type S3K HDD TSO TSO TSO TSO
OCI (miles) 6650 4300 5700 6250 6250
Total miles 100,500 88,000 81,300 75,600 68,800

Iron 15 24 15 20 34
Chromium 1 5 1 0 1
Lead 8 6 5 5 9
Copper 22 17 23 27 61
Tin 4 0 0 0 0
Aluminium 12 12 9 10 7
Nickel 0 0 0 0 0
Silver 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon 39 33 56 57 68
Boron 2 8 9 18 27
Sodium 0 19 67 70 25
Potassium 0 0 21 25 0

Magnesium 23 35 107 367 972
Calcium 4211 3404 3724 3210 2460
Barium 0 0 0 0 0
Phosphorus 1237 698 1009 1009 1011
Zinc 1533 832 1054 1145 1473
Molybdenum 8 3 4 6 2
Titanium 0 0 0 0 0
Vanadium 0 0 0 0 0

Fuel b> Viscosity at 100 C - 11.87 11.21 11.88 12.01 15.05
Water 0 0 0 0 0
Coolant NO NO YES YES NO
TBN 3.48 4.26 4.14 3.36 4.06

Oxid 16
Nitr 22


Copper, Lead, and Tin are up in this report compared to last UOA. This is after the Amsoil Engine Flush as well. Do you guys think this is just residue cleaning itself out or is there still a problem here? Coolant is not leaking anymore, which is good, but it seems that the wear metals are taking quite a while to settle down.

Thanks for the comments in advance as usual

 

[yota4me]

I think I'd do an Auto-RX cleaning, check for air leaks, use Amsoil EA air filter, use top tier gas, ensure engine tuned, use FP60 in gas...

 

[Last_Z]

I'd inspect the entire intake system. Also look for a missing PCV or a vacuum leak somewhere or something that's letting unfiltered air into the engine. Your silicone has been historycally high....and it shouldn't be.

 

[il_signore97]

The GM Dexcool Coolant has silicates in it, so that is likely why the silicon has been high in the past few analyses (since the coolant was leaking into the crankcase). The silicon spike was much more evident than the sodium and potassium spikes when the coolant began to get into the crankcase.

However, just to be sure that it wasn't an air leak, I disassembled the entire air intake system after the gasket repair was done, cleaned it all out, reassembled it making sure that every connection was air tight, and installed a new (OEM) air filter and PCV valve. I don't think there are any vacuum leaks as I reassembled the PCV system myself during the gasket repair and replaced the grommets in the valve covers where the tubes are inserted. They should be sealing fine.

I will likely switch to an Amsoil EaA drop in filter to avoid changing this thing as often as I do. It's a real pain to get at and requires the air intake tube to be disassembled to pull the filter out. Hopefully that will also reduce the silicon value a bit.

Do you guys think the numbers represent residual silicon and wear metals that were being cleaned out by the Amsoil Engine Flush? The oil fill from this latest UOA was installed right after doing the flush and drain...

 

[Mudcat]

Quote:
The GM Dexcool Coolant has silicates in it...


I believe you are misinformed on this point. Dex-Cool is silicate free.

Link to Havoline Dex-Cool page.

Quote:
Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant DEX-COOL is a universal engine coolant that incorporates patented organic acid corrosion inhibitor technology. This coolant meets both ASTM D 3306 for automotive service and ASTM D 4985 for heavy-duty diesel service. It is a nitrite-, nitrate-, phosphate-, silicate-, borate and amine-free formulation which uses Texaco’s patented carboxylate technology to provide maximum protection of the six basic metal alloys found in most heat transfer systems. Since the coolant contains no phosphates or silicates, hard water deposits in the cooling system are almost eliminated. The low level of abrasive dissolved solids in Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant DEX-COOL results in improved water pump seal life.

 

[Last_Z]

Mudcat's post supports my theory that it is dirt getting past something somewhere. Your last report shows no sodium or patassium whatsoever, yet silicone is through the roof.
I've had Ventures and Astro/Express vans in my fleets. I don't remember what the Venture filter box looked like, but the Express/Astro filter box was an absolute junk. It just didn't seem to sit right and squared. Maybe your van has a similar problem.
Your wear metals seem to also indicate this, especially Aluminum, which would normally be 3-4ppm for said OCI interval. The piston are being sandblasted, IMO.

I really hope you can fix this soon!

Rick

 

[il_signore97]

Misinformed is right. It looks like the Dexcool does not have any silicates - I'm not sure where I got that info from. But anyway, thanks Mudcat for pointing that out. It seems to narrow my problem down to a definitive dirt ingestion issue.

Last_Z, yes, the airbox on this thing is not great as you said. And since it's jammed in between several other things under there, it's very hard to get a look at the sides and bottom of the seal (filter sits vertically, not horizontally). You can really only see and feel the top side of the box. I have now taken the entire intake apart and re-sealed it 3 times, and the silicon levels never seem to improve. Once upon a time (when the van was newer), they were in the 16-20 ppm range, and wear was also much lower. But ever since the coolant became evident, I have not been successful at reducing the silicon levels!

I guess I'll have to give it another shot and take a closer look at the other vacuum tubes that lead off the intake manifold to the vacuum-powered accessories. I know that the breather and PCV lines are not cut, cracked, and are fully seated into their grommets, so dirt is not likely to be getting in through there.

As always, thanks for the helpful comments.

 

[Last_Z]

Ever heard the saying "When it rains, it pours"? It is likely that you had both, the antifreeze and a problem with the box at the same time, making you think the whole thing is antifreeze related. Even 16-20ppm is a bit high for the average 3-6k mile OCI. Use starter fluid while the engine is running....fairly easy way to spot a vacuum leak.

Rick

 

[JohnBrowning]

It should be fine just watch it!!! If the person doing the job did it right then what youa re seeing is just residual cleaning!!! I would use a cheaper oil for two shorter oil change interval's then go back to S3K.... It can take a few oil changes for the bearing to settle down depending on how long the coolant leak was on going and how much coolant got intot he oil!!!!

 

[il_signore97]

Thanks guys... Well, I guess it won't hurt to look for a vacuum leak one last time to see if I've missed anything the last few times. But I'm hoping that it's just cleaning going on, because then it's a hands-off solution! lol

JohnBrowning, do you suggest that I stick with Series 3000 even in the very cold winter months? Almost every trip this van takes is less than a few minutes. I've just thrown the SSO 0W30 in there for the winter for that reason. It's thinner at cold temps, and since the oil probably doesn't really get a chance to heat up much, my thought was that it would circulate better with a lower cold viscosity than the HDD S3K oil.

With the exception of the one highway drive per week, the van usually doesn't even warm up fully on it's daily commute of 1.5 km to work in the morning, 1.5 km back home, then another 2 km round trip in the evening (1 km each way).

 

[Last_Z]

Wow, you sure have that van on a strict diet of VERY short trips. I'd stick to the HDD oil if it can handle the cold weather. Try to swap the van with someone else in the family who drives more, especially on the highway.

Rick

 

[il_signore97]

^lol... I know. It's pretty much the worst driving that it can possibly have!

In the summer months, it's not so bad, because I will use the van to tow my jetski trailer 3-4 times a month. Each trip will average 600 km (300 km each way). But in the winter, I probably only use it once a month for the "larger than normal" ski trips where my car just isn't big enough to accomodate everyone + the equipment.

My Altima is pretty much on the highway every single day (120 km minimum per day, 55 km each way), with just one short trip in the middle of the day over lunch (5 km each way). But I can't swap with my mother for her van because she doesn't drive standard (nor has any desire to learn - probably better that way in interests of preserving my clutch!!!)

Thanks for the advice though. I guess the HDD (or any other suitable HDEO) is the best oil choice for the van to handle all of the short trips (and lack of regular oil warm up).