2001 Land Rover Discovery TD5 - diesel

[Desert_Cat]

I'm new to this forum, looked for some help on my issue but could not find the required info.
My Land Rover Discovery has a 2.5 Liter Diesel Turbo engine.
Original manufacturer spec says:
ACEA: A1,B1 or B2.
I'm confused, my garage put "CASTROL MAGNATEC 10W-40 - Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 is a part synthetic SAE 10W-40 API SN/CF, ACEA A4/B4 engine oil


I was thinking towards the:
"Castrol EDGE Sport 0W-40" is a full synthetic, SAE 0W-40, API SN/CF, ACEA C2/C3
or

"Castrol EDGE Sport 10W-60" is an SAE 10W-60, API SM/CF, ACEA A3/B3/B4 full synthetic

Another option is the Caterpillar DEO or Caterpillar DEO low-Sulfur.

I'm not that expert with oils.
Ambient local temp -5C to 48C (hot summer).
Land rover engine pressure to be 1.5 - 3 BAR @ 3500RPM, engine hot.

Lately I had replaced the turbo (it died) and the engine oil pump, my garage claimed turbo was dead because low oil presure.
Large bearings and main bearings were replaced as well.

Kindly advise.

 

[Johnny]

I don't have an answer to your question, but I can say;

to BITOG

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: Desert_Cat
I'm new to this forum, looked for some help on my issue but could not find the required info.
My Land Rover Discovery has a 2.5 Liter Diesel Turbo engine.
Original manufacturer spec says:
ACEA: A1,B1 or B2.
I'm confused, my garage put "CASTROL MAGNATEC 10W-40 - Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 is a part synthetic SAE 10W-40 API SN/CF, ACEA A4/B4 engine oil


I was thinking towards the:
"Castrol EDGE Sport 0W-40" is a full synthetic, SAE 0W-40, API SN/CF, ACEA C2/C3
or

"Castrol EDGE Sport 10W-60" is an SAE 10W-60, API SM/CF, ACEA A3/B3/B4 full synthetic

Another option is the Caterpillar DEO or Caterpillar DEO low-Sulfur.

I'm not that expert with oils.
Ambient local temp -5C to 48C (hot summer).
Land rover engine pressure to be 1.5 - 3 BAR @ 3500RPM, engine hot.

Lately I had replaced the turbo (it died) and the engine oil pump, my garage claimed turbo was dead because low oil presure.
Large bearings and main bearings were replaced as well.

Kindly advise.


The one oil I would not use is the C2/C3 oil. "C" type oils are engineering compromises to protect diesel emission systmes which presumably you don't have. They are low in antiwear ingredients and very low in detergency and acid neutralization. The 10W60 is rated ACEA A3/B3/B4 and would be great in the Negev summer and crank fine in your mild winters, but it is probably very expensive.
If the Magnatec 10W40 is really rated B4 and not too expensive I'd recommend trying it. A1/B1 oils have a lower 150C. HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity) than A3/B3 or A3/B4 oils. The latter would do a better job maintaining a lubricating fluid film in the summer in hot places like turbo bearings.

Charlie

 

[Desert_Cat]

What about the the Caterpillar oil " Can DEO Syn CAT DEO SYN"
We have it here as well but I had noticed it has ASH=1.35
Could it damage the engine?

 

[m37charlie]

The Cat DEO Syn is very similar to Mobil Delvac 1 5W40. It would probably work very well for you and its' ash content is not excessive. I use an oil with ash = 1.8% but it is for a Mercedes truck engine application which recommends it (MB228.5).

Charlie

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Desert_Cat - Charlie will offer good advice

M1 0W-40 is recommended for this engine. CAT lubricants are supplied under Contract by ExxonMobil. They have been for many years and the latest Contract renewal continues the relationship well into the future

High SA levels are not recommended

 

[Desert_Cat]

Hi,
Car currently runs on Magnatec 10W-40 A3/B3 - Part Synthetic Technology
ACEA A3/B3
API SL/CF
MB 229.1
VW 505 00
Test Method(s) Unit Typical
Density @ 15C ASTM D4052 Relative 0.873
Viscosity, 100C ASTM D445 mm²/s 14.34
Viscosity, 40C ASTM D445 mm²/s 95.3
Viscosity, CCS -25C
(10W)
ASTM D5293 cP 6140
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 1.0
Total Base Number, TBN ASTM D2896 mg KOH/g 8.0
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -36

Above was put in by my garage, which I'm not sure it's the best for me.

Regarding the CAT /Mobil Delvac, I had found this from the Mobil https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-Englis..._vs_Mobil_Delvac_1_for_a_Gasoline_Engine.aspx website: which explains the advantages of the DELVAC over M1"
Mobil Delvac 1 ESP, which is designed for heavy-duty diesels, meets most diesel engine oil specifications, and also meets API SM certification. And because Mobil Delvac 1 ESP operates in a different environment – diesel engines run longer, generate soot and run hotter, it contains different types and amounts of additives than Mobil 1. Even so, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP still meets API SM certification for gasoline engines, and because of its high performance, we would expect it to do a good job of protecting your gasoline engine.

If you use your gasoline vehicle in "heavy-duty" service, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP will provide many benefits compared to conventional oils. When compared to Mobil 1 performance, those benefits may not be as obvious, and in fact, Mobil 1 would be expected to outperform Mobil Delvac 1 in many gasoline applications. (Updated April 2008)
While: Delvac values -
SAE Grade 5W-40
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 98
cSt @ 100ºC 14.7
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 156
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896 10.1
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -48
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 249
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.85

CAT DEO SYN values -
SAE Viscosity Grade 5W-40
API Service Classifi cation CI-4PLUS**, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF, SL
OEM Performance Levels:
Cummins 71/76/77/78
Mack EO-NPP ’03, EO-M Plus
MB 228.3
Volvo VDS-3
Caterpillar ECF-1-a
ACEA E5/E4
Gravity, API 34.1
Specific 0.85
Pour Point, °C (° F) -45 (-49)
Flash Point, °C (°F) (ASTM D92) 226 (437)
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40°C 95.0
cSt @ 100°C 14.8
SUS @ 100°F 440.0
SUS @ 210°F 77.9
Viscosity Index 151
Zinc, % wt. (ASTM D4951) 0.146
Sulfated Ash, % wt. 1.35
TBN (ASTM D2896) 12.0

Looking into the UK Castrol site (UK- UK make Land Rover), they recomend:
Castrol Magnatec Professional A1 5W-30
API SM/CF
ILSAC GF-4
ACEA A1/B1
Meets Ford WSS-M2C-913-C, Ford WSS-M2C-913B, Ford WSS-M2C-913A
Test Method(s) Unit Typical
Appearance Visual Clear and bright
Viscosity, Kinematic 100C ASTM D445 mm²/s 9.7
Viscosity, Kinematic 40C ASTM D445 mm²/s 55.39
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 161
Calcium, % wt ASTM D4951 % wt 0.242
Phosphorus, % wt ASTM D4951 % wt 0.091
Zinc, % wt ASTM D4951 % wt 0.099
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 210
Total Base Number, TBN ASTM D2896 mg KOH/g 8.0
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -39
High Temperature High Shear CEC-L-36-A97 °C 2.95

I find it's grade too low for my climate 45C at summer (desert).

They recommend as well the:
EDGE 5W-30
VW 504 00/ 507 00
MB-Approval 229.51
BMW Longlife-04*
* (do not use in BMW gasoline engines outside EU)
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, C3
Test Method(s) Unit Typical
Density @ 15C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.8513
Viscosity, Kinematic 100C ASTM D445 mm²/s 12.0
Viscosity, CCS -30C (5W) ASTM D5293 cP 5800
Calcium, % wt ASTM D4951 % wt 0.148
Phosphorus, % wt ASTM D4951 % wt 0.078
Zinc, % wt ASTM D4951 % wt 0.086
Viscosity, Kinematic 40C ASTM D445 mm²/s 70
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 169
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 202
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 0.64
Total Base Number, TBN ASTM D2896 mg KOH/g 7.0

While on their site there is the:
Edge Turbo Diesel 5W-40
VW 502 00, 505 00, 505 01
MB-Approval 229.51
BMW Longlife-04
Meets Ford WSS-M2C917-A
RENAULT RN0710 / RN0700
Meets Fiat 9.55535-S2
API SM/CF
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, C3
Relative Density at 15ºC ISO 3675 / ASTM D1298 g/cm3 0.85
Viscosity at 40ºC ISO 3104 / ASTM D445 mm2/s 82
Viscosity at 100ºC ISO 3104 / ASTM D445 mm2/s 13.9
Viscosity Index ISO 2909 / ASTM D2270 - 174
CCS -30ºC ASTM D5293 mPa.s 5550
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g 7.6
Flash Point (PMCC) ASTM D93 0C 210
Pour Point ISO 3016 / ASTM D97 0C -48
Sulphated Ash ISO 3687 / ASTM D874 %m 0.80


and for the Mobil 1 0W-40
Value
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40º C 75
@ 100º C 13.5
Viscosity Index 185
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85

Which I don't know if I can get it down here...

Since the CAT DEO SYN is made by MOBIL, a well known manufacture, I would go with it, but it has relative high Ash, Sulphated as 1.35.

Since I had replaced my OIL pump and Turbo for NEW, I would like to use the BEST suitable oil for this engine.
Would not want to mess new parts.
Sorry for the TMI here on this message, but I wish to make "life easy" for guys to review the specs, not running to the internet searching for data.

 

[m37charlie]

Actually the 1.35% SA level of the Cat DEO is only very slightly more than the Mobil 1 0W40 which is 1.30%. The M1 0W40 is very likely the BEST oil made and widely known and available for a huge variety of high performance petrol engines. It also works great in light diesels like yours.
The DEO carries a spark engine approval SL, which it would not carry if it were excessively high in ash.
The trend to lower SA to 1.0% and below only gained impetus with the advent of diesel particulate filters (DPF) and "3-way catalysts" in petrol engines in about 2007.
There are 4 types of Delvac 1:
D1, D1 ESP, D1 LE, and D1 SHC.
The DEO is a clone of the the "plain" Delvac 1. It is their "universal" Delvac 1.
D1 ESP's main application is for post 2006 US and Euro 4-5 diesels with DPFs, same true for D1 LE. SHC is only for heavy duty Euro 3 and below diesels, mainly Mercedes and MAN. The ESP and LE do have "backwards compatability".
For examples, look at my signature.
But the Magnatec 10W40 is appropriate also!

Charlie

 

[Desert_Cat]

Hi,

After a comparison, it seem CAT DEO SYN and the Mobil Delvac are the same, as you said.
The M1 0W40 has much lower SA than the CAT / Delvac.

Do you think it's @safe@ to go with the CAT / Delvac?

Or should insist on the Castrol Edge Turbo Diesel 5W-40
VW 502 00, 505 00, 505 01
MB-Approval 229.51
BMW Longlife-04
Meets Ford WSS-M2C917-A
RENAULT RN0710 / RN0700
Meets Fiat 9.55535-S2
API SM/CF
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, C3
Relative Density at 15ºC ISO 3675 / ASTM D1298 g/cm3 0.85
Viscosity at 40ºC ISO 3104 / ASTM D445 mm2/s 82
Viscosity at 100ºC ISO 3104 / ASTM D445 mm2/s 13.9
Viscosity Index ISO 2909 / ASTM D2270 - 174
CCS -30ºC ASTM D5293 mPa.s 5550
Total Base Number ASTM D2896 mgKOH/g 7.6
Flash Point (PMCC) ASTM D93 0C 210
Pour Point ISO 3016 / ASTM D97 0C -48
Sulphated Ash ISO 3687 / ASTM D874 %m 0.80

Which is C3 - not recommended?
I personally believe Mobil (Delvac = CAT DEO Syn) to be superior over the Castrol, but don't know the real tiny bits why it is...

 

[Johnny]

If you can easily get the CAT/Delvac oil, that is what I would use without reservation. It would give good protection to your new parts.

 

[Desert_Cat]

Hi Again,
Still confused, local CAT dealer has only CAT DEO 15W-40, not CAT DEO Syn 5W-40 (Fully Synthetic).
Specs for CAT DEO http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1413111/7/datasheets.pdf Here
CAT DEO SYN specs are on a file, don't know how to upload.

 

[m37charlie]

I have a personal prejudice against C3 oils based on experience with a BMW X5 35d - they run out of alkalinity too quickly.
Both the Mobil 1 0W40 (if you want a full synthetic with low temp characteristics, but also good for high temps) or the Cat DEO (if you want a standard diesel oil good down to ~-20C. at the most) would be great choices.
As mentioned, there is nothing wrong with the Castrol Magnatec.
Perhaps the most important thing is what Doug said: M1 0W40 is recommended for this engine.

Charlie