2-cycle oil as a fuel add in 4-cycle engine

[cmhj]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I have driven about 30 miles so far and not yet noticed anything different.


In many cases we've not seen or felt "butt dyno" any differences for some time. It has, in a few cases, been an accumulative issue.

Give it 4-6 tanks for a fair test and be exact with your measuring methods.

Many times you need to adjust your mixture. Experiment with this every 4-6 tanks.

As mentioned above, I've found in most cases 1 ounce to 5 gal of gas is best. Much leaner than this and any seen effects are lost. Likewise 1 ounce to 4 gal. seems to be max amount too.

Even if no seen mileage gains are noticed, it's the unseen benefits that's I've noticed over the years makes this a worthwhile method.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: cmhj
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I have driven about 30 miles so far and not yet noticed anything different.


In many cases we've not seen or felt "butt dyno" any differences for some time. It has, in a few cases, been an accumulative issue.

Give it 4-6 tanks for a fair test and be exact with your measuring methods.

Many times you need to adjust your mixture. Experiment with this every 4-6 tanks.

As mentioned above, I've found in most cases 1 ounce to 5 gal of gas is best. Much leaner than this and any seen effects are lost. Likewise 1 ounce to 4 gal. seems to be max amount too.

Even if no seen mileage gains are noticed, it's the unseen benefits that's I've noticed over the years makes this a worthwhile method.


Some good advise and good observations. It takes time for TCW3 or MMO to work when added to gas. First time users should run a tank of gas with a good FI cleaner first. Regane is easy to get, and works well. After the FI cleaning start with the TCW3 or MMO addition to the gas.

 

[mechtech2]

Has TCW3 been around for 25 years?

 

[ADFD1]

TC-w2 oil went out in about 1996.

AD

 

[cmhj]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Has TCW3 been around for 25 years?


The rating have changed over the years. I don't recall the actual rating in the 70s. Maybe it was just TCW? Whatever, I've done this practice with outboard oils in 4 strokes longer than some on this site are old with excellent results.

 

[ADFD1]

Your point is well taken, many people for many years have added 2 cycle oil and/or MMO to the gas with good results. The TC-W2/3 oils are ashless making them a better choice than just a Two Cycle oil.

I think where any of these oils really shine is during the first cold start of the morning.

AD

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
. . .
I think where any of these oils really shine is during the first cold start of the morning.

AD

So far, a week or so into my experimentation with the stuff, I totally agree. When you punch the POWER button in the Camry, it begins its "start cycle". The ICE starts 7-8 seconds into the cycle (unless the traction battery is critically low, then the ICE starts almost immediately). This has always been the "roughest" of the many starts the car will do as the ICE cycles on and off. With the two-stroke oil, this first start is almost as velvety smooth as the rest. Very noticeable, very pleasing.

 

[demarpaint]

I see you're in Florida, so cold winter starts are pretty much non-existent. However the first start after an engine sits over night yields the most wear of any start during that day. That little bit of top oil means a lot in reducing that wear IMO.

Studies have been done about start-up wear, and the lack of total protection until oil reaches operating temps. Have any studies been done on the reduction of start-up wear, if any, with a top oil? I guess that would be a good question for the Turtle Wax people re: MMO. My bet is it makes a big difference in the top end of an engine.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I see you're in Florida, so cold winter starts are pretty much non-existent. However the first start after an engine sits over night yields the most wear of any start during that day. That little bit of top oil means a lot in reducing that wear IMO.

Studies have been done about start-up wear, and the lack of total protection until oil reaches operating temps. Have any studies been done on the reduction of start-up wear, if any, with a top oil? I guess that would be a good question for the Turtle Wax people re: MMO. My bet is it makes a big difference in the top end of an engine.


Yes, true, but I do live in the mostly-misunderstood part of FL. Heck, we're almost 200 miles into the Central Time Zone -- most "outsiders" have no idea how far this state stretches.

Basically, you're right, but up here, we do get some fairly cold mornings during the winter. Temps in the low 20s F are not dominant, but certainly not uncommon. I have a "kit" in my garage storage bins that I use to protect the Sega palms when it gets cold like this (old sheets to cover them, and drop lights to act as smudge pots would have a generation ago).

But certainly, at this time of year (when I keep old flight gloves in my black car for those days when the wheel is literally too hot to hold...), we're not seeing any real cold starts. Nevertheless, I can feel a very distinct difference on this stuff. I will be using it from now on.

 

[demarpaint]

You got me on the misunderstood part of FL. With temps in the 20's during winter the added protection of the top oil will be even better for you.

I have a pre-luber pump I've been using for many years on my E-150. I flip a switch and wait for the oil pressure to build then start the engine. Since this pump doesn't pump oil as fast as the factory OP you can notice how temperature effects oil flow. Even at 50*-60*F it takes that pre-luber longer to build pressure than on a 75-80* day. Which is why I prefer 0W-xx oils over 5W-xx and 10W-xx oils if I am running a synthetic. We might be talking fractions of a second difference with the 0w-xx oils pumping up, but over the life of the engine and thousands of starts those fractions add up. But if you keep a car for 3-5 years and trade them in it won't matter, me I keep my cars till they beg to be junked.

Back on topic, the top oils have a lot more merit than most people think!

 

[Vikas]

I had put 2 oz when the tank had approximately 10 gallon; the tank holds about 18 gallon. I just refilled the tank and I got 30.5MPG
Mind you, I was really flogging the car on that tank with multiple 65-85 runs just for the giggles. The fuel efficiency was further from my mind. Generally, I would have expected about 28MPG under that circumstances. Last couple tanks were in that range and I was actually driving more sedately then.

The experiment is on-going but given that just the half tank of treatment has gotten me over 30MPG, all indications are that this thing just might be actually working??

I still do not have that ferocious growl back which I lost during the previous tank. I have done couple of ECU resets too. On this car, OBD-II reset unfortunately does NOT reset the long term fuel trims. I have not deciphered the algorithm by which the ECU sets the base ignition advance timing.

If I were to dump fuel system cleaner, are they all compatible with TC-W3 dose in it already?

- Vikas

 

[demarpaint]

I doubt that fuel system cleaner is going to be an issue. I ran my Inverse Oiler all the time, and used fuel system cleaner from time to time. If you are concerned, boating supply houses sell fuel system cleaners that say on the label they mix with TC oils. Or just run a tank with nothing added to it first then add the FI cleaner, run it through and start adding TC-W3 or MMO.

I always tell people new to adding MMO or TC-W3 to the gas to run a tankful with FI cleaner first. This way everything is GTG.

 

[Vikas]

I am not jumping to any conclusions but half tank treated with TC-W3 on my Odyssey too gave me increased mileage. The tank was treated when it was half empty. It gave me 23.2 mpg which I rarely get in the mixed driving.

In both of my vehicles, initial results are encouraging. Obviously without having at least 3 tankful of data, no categorical statement can be made yet.

- Vikas

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am not jumping to any conclusions but half tank treated with TC-W3 on my Odyssey too gave me increased mileage. The tank was treated when it was half empty. It gave me 23.2 mpg which I rarely get in the mixed driving.

In both of my vehicles, initial results are encouraging. Obviously without having at least 3 tankful of data, no categorical statement can be made yet.

- Vikas


I'm in about the same place you are. Oddly enough, in my wife's Avalon (same engine displacement as your Oddity, probably about 500 lbs lighter) I saw almost the same jump. At least 90% of her driving is urban. On her first refueling, 22.9, very good for an urban tank.

 

[demarpaint]

Nice to see positive results!

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am not jumping to any conclusions but half tank treated with TC-W3 on my Odyssey too gave me increased mileage. The tank was treated when it was half empty. It gave me 23.2 mpg which I rarely get in the mixed driving.

In both of my vehicles, initial results are encouraging. Obviously without having at least 3 tankful of data, no categorical statement can be made yet.

- Vikas


Well, the subsequent mpg went lower, on both my vehicles :-(

I just made a 1300 mile trip in the Odyssey from Boston to Virginia and the first tank mileage was one of the lowest I had seen, like 21 on highway. I ran out of Supertech TC-W3, so I had to buy Penzoil TC-W3. The next tank was barely 22 mpg and so I stopped adding TC-W3 for subsequent tanks. I also 3M added fuel system cleaner. The last tank I got 25mpg! Which is incidentally highest I have ever seen. This is *without* TC-W3 and *after* the fuel system cleaner.

I will continue TC-W3 experiment with my Maxima but with the Odyssey, I am calling it quits.

Incidentally, it is lot of pain to do this on the road. Sticky funnel, sticky container and tipped container made quite a mess in the trunk.

- Vikas

 

[ekpolk]

I've been consistently staying with the PZ syn TC-W3, and my mpgs have not gone down. Actually, on this tank, mpgs are up (amazingly to ~38 mpgs), but that probably has more to do with the 200 or so lbs of junk I removed from the car this weekend. . .

 

[jmb106]

I have been following this thread since the begining and would like to share my experience using the Pennzoil semi-syn TC-W3 in my 95 Accord. Before using TC-W3 i would average 20-21 mpg city and 26-27 mpg hwy, since i have been using TC-W3 at 1oz per 5 gals i have consistently gotten 23.5-24.5 mpg city and 29-30 hwy. Nice gains on both and the engine just purrs w/ TC-W3 added to the gas!
Joe

 

[Vikas]

For 20mpg vehicle, you are talking about 150 gallon of gasoline usage for 3000 mile. Using the recommended dosage of 1oz/5gal, you will be using 30oz of TC-W3 or a Quart.

Now, there are some people for whom burning a quart of oil in 3000 mile would give a pause but for others it would be no big deal.

Do you consider burning 1 qt per oil change normal, low or excessive?

Thanks,
- Vikas

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
For 20mpg vehicle, you are talking about 150 gallon of gasoline usage for 3000 mile. Using the recommended dosage of 1oz/5gal, you will be using 30oz of TC-W3 or a Quart.

Now, there are some people for whom burning a quart of oil in 3000 mile would give a pause but for others it would be no big deal.

Do you consider burning 1 qt per oil change normal, low or excessive?

Thanks,
- Vikas


20 mpg??? Gak! Having removed about 300 lbs of junk (several boxes of books, some tools, etc., from my TCH this weekend, mpgs have suddenly (expectedly...

) jumped up to an indicated 39.1, almost 200 miles into the present tank (given the rough average deviation between calculated and system mpg, I'm probably at about 38.5 mpg. So, at my 400:1 ratio, that would be 23.3 oz over your 3k miles.

More troublingly, I don't agree with the premise of the rest of your post. You are comparing a presumably malfunctioning oil burner, that's consuming its own 4C oil to a product that is added to fuel, and intended to perform as a UCL. This comparison is especially problematic if one is using TC-W3 2C oil, which contains only ashless dispersants. So, unlike your common 4C oil which may leave much "stuff" behind (metallic ash) when consumed, the TC-W3 oil won't. Unlike 4C oil, this stuff is designed, from the outset, to do its job AND to be burned in the combustion chamber, AND not to do damage as it is burned.

As tempting as it may be to compare consumption of 4C oil to the burning of 2C oils, the comparison just doesn't hold water. Apples and oranges, so to speak.