Properly mixed you guys are seeing or expecting any deposits from this add to the fuel?
2-cycle oil as a fuel add in 4-cycle engine
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One thing I noticed in Castrol 2C oil. The Castrol Snowmobile oil says it low ash formula and the Outboard Oil says it's ashless, yet both meet TC-W3 spec. I thought TC-W3 was ashless spec, what gives
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Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
Properly mixed you guys are seeing or expecting any deposits from this add to the fuel?
In one of these threads, someone posted pics of plugs pulled from a 4c engine that had been using TC-W3 for about 30k miles. They looked pretty normal.
The whole idea behind TC-W3 spec oil is that it burns very cleanly without leaving appreciable deposits behind. Moreover, at 400:1, I'm mixing it at about 1/4 the leanest mix for 2C engines that rely upon the stuff for all their lube needs. I really don' see a problem, but I suppose time will tell.
Properly mixed you guys are seeing or expecting any deposits from this add to the fuel?
In one of these threads, someone posted pics of plugs pulled from a 4c engine that had been using TC-W3 for about 30k miles. They looked pretty normal.
The whole idea behind TC-W3 spec oil is that it burns very cleanly without leaving appreciable deposits behind. Moreover, at 400:1, I'm mixing it at about 1/4 the leanest mix for 2C engines that rely upon the stuff for all their lube needs. I really don' see a problem, but I suppose time will tell.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
For 20mpg vehicle, you are talking about 150 gallon of gasoline usage for 3000 mile. Using the recommended dosage of 1oz/5gal, you will be using 30oz of TC-W3 or a Quart.
Now, there are some people for whom burning a quart of oil in 3000 mile would give a pause but for others it would be no big deal.
Do you consider burning 1 qt per oil change normal, low or excessive?
Thanks,
- Vikas
Interesting line of thought Vikas, never thought about it like that! To answer your ? i would say excessive. That amount of consumption would indicate a problem! Bad ring seal or PVC system problems, now i have neither one of these problems my car has > 211,000 miles on it and consumes no oil over a 5k OCI. The reason i am using the TC-W3 in my fuel is to increase my MPG which i am pleased to says has worked for me. So far i have not seen any down side to the use of TC-W3 as a fuel additive. My results are right inline w/ what others have experienced on this board a 2-3 MPG gain when used at 1oz per 5gals of gas. I agree w/ ekpolk that TC-W3 is designed to be burnt in an engine and leave no deposits. And that the way i am using it as an UCL is not a problem. Really hard to compare the two!
Joe
For 20mpg vehicle, you are talking about 150 gallon of gasoline usage for 3000 mile. Using the recommended dosage of 1oz/5gal, you will be using 30oz of TC-W3 or a Quart.
Now, there are some people for whom burning a quart of oil in 3000 mile would give a pause but for others it would be no big deal.
Do you consider burning 1 qt per oil change normal, low or excessive?
Thanks,
- Vikas
Interesting line of thought Vikas, never thought about it like that! To answer your ? i would say excessive. That amount of consumption would indicate a problem! Bad ring seal or PVC system problems, now i have neither one of these problems my car has > 211,000 miles on it and consumes no oil over a 5k OCI. The reason i am using the TC-W3 in my fuel is to increase my MPG which i am pleased to says has worked for me. So far i have not seen any down side to the use of TC-W3 as a fuel additive. My results are right inline w/ what others have experienced on this board a 2-3 MPG gain when used at 1oz per 5gals of gas. I agree w/ ekpolk that TC-W3 is designed to be burnt in an engine and leave no deposits. And that the way i am using it as an UCL is not a problem. Really hard to compare the two!
Joe
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
Properly mixed you guys are seeing or expecting any deposits from this add to the fuel?
In one of these threads, someone posted pics of plugs pulled from a 4c engine that had been using TC-W3 for about 30k miles. They looked pretty normal.
The whole idea behind TC-W3 spec oil is that it burns very cleanly without leaving appreciable deposits behind. Moreover, at 400:1, I'm mixing it at about 1/4 the leanest mix for 2C engines that rely upon the stuff for all their lube needs. I really don' see a problem, but I suppose time will tell.
ekpolk,
I agree w/ everything you said. Only time will tell if there's a down side to using TC-W3 as a fuel additive in a 4c engine so far so good.
Joe
Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
Properly mixed you guys are seeing or expecting any deposits from this add to the fuel?
In one of these threads, someone posted pics of plugs pulled from a 4c engine that had been using TC-W3 for about 30k miles. They looked pretty normal.
The whole idea behind TC-W3 spec oil is that it burns very cleanly without leaving appreciable deposits behind. Moreover, at 400:1, I'm mixing it at about 1/4 the leanest mix for 2C engines that rely upon the stuff for all their lube needs. I really don' see a problem, but I suppose time will tell.
ekpolk,
I agree w/ everything you said. Only time will tell if there's a down side to using TC-W3 as a fuel additive in a 4c engine so far so good.
Joe
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If a typical user complains about 1Qt being burned in 3K miles to manufacturer, he will be laughed out. By that measure it is not excessive.
On the other hand, many Honda/Toyota owners are used to seeing minuscule oil usage in 3K miles and for them an entire quart of burning would be quite a lot.
Earlier reply makes lot of sense where he pointed out the difference between 2C and 4C oil burning. 2C is designed and intended to be burned with fuel whereas 4C being burnt in some vehicles is just unfortunate.
I am continuing my experiment with Penzoil dino TC-W3 with one car until I run out of this bottle.
- Vikas
On the other hand, many Honda/Toyota owners are used to seeing minuscule oil usage in 3K miles and for them an entire quart of burning would be quite a lot.
Earlier reply makes lot of sense where he pointed out the difference between 2C and 4C oil burning. 2C is designed and intended to be burned with fuel whereas 4C being burnt in some vehicles is just unfortunate.
I am continuing my experiment with Penzoil dino TC-W3 with one car until I run out of this bottle.
- Vikas
Originally Posted By: Vikas
For 20mpg vehicle, you are talking about 150 gallon of gasoline usage for 3000 mile. Using the recommended dosage of 1oz/5gal, you will be using 30oz of TC-W3 or a Quart.
Now, there are some people for whom burning a quart of oil in 3000 mile would give a pause but for others it would be no big deal.
Do you consider burning 1 qt per oil change normal, low or excessive?
Thanks,
- Vikas
A quart of oil burnt/1000 miles is considered by some normal, especially if the car is under some kind of warranty, and you bring it to a dealer and complain. Using a qt of TC-W3 oil for 3000 miles is fine. JMO
For 20mpg vehicle, you are talking about 150 gallon of gasoline usage for 3000 mile. Using the recommended dosage of 1oz/5gal, you will be using 30oz of TC-W3 or a Quart.
Now, there are some people for whom burning a quart of oil in 3000 mile would give a pause but for others it would be no big deal.
Do you consider burning 1 qt per oil change normal, low or excessive?
Thanks,
- Vikas
A quart of oil burnt/1000 miles is considered by some normal, especially if the car is under some kind of warranty, and you bring it to a dealer and complain. Using a qt of TC-W3 oil for 3000 miles is fine. JMO
My spark plug pics address the deposit question.
I've been using the Pennzoil full synthetic in my Honda VFR700F at about 500:1, which the bike seems to like. My tank has some rust in it, and I'm hoping the ester based PZFSTCW3 will coat it and low or prevent future rust.
Originally Posted By: cmhj
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I have driven about 30 miles so far and not yet noticed anything different.
In many cases we've not seen or felt "butt dyno" any differences for some time. It has, in a few cases, been an accumulative issue.
Give it 4-6 tanks for a fair test and be exact with your measuring methods.
I have never noticed any change in the butt dyno. I have noticed a slightly quieter engine, but that is just speculation since I can not verify it with numbers from a scientific test.
I have noticed a cleaner fuel system from the tank to the intake valves on vehicles that use TCW-3 than on vehicles that didn't run TCW-3
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I have driven about 30 miles so far and not yet noticed anything different.
In many cases we've not seen or felt "butt dyno" any differences for some time. It has, in a few cases, been an accumulative issue.
Give it 4-6 tanks for a fair test and be exact with your measuring methods.
I have never noticed any change in the butt dyno. I have noticed a slightly quieter engine, but that is just speculation since I can not verify it with numbers from a scientific test.
I have noticed a cleaner fuel system from the tank to the intake valves on vehicles that use TCW-3 than on vehicles that didn't run TCW-3
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am not jumping to any conclusions but half tank treated with TC-W3 on my Odyssey too gave me increased mileage. The tank was treated when it was half empty. It gave me 23.2 mpg which I rarely get in the mixed driving.
In both of my vehicles, initial results are encouraging. Obviously without having at least 3 tankful of data, no categorical statement can be made yet.
- Vikas
Well, the subsequent mpg went lower, on both my vehicles :-(
I just made a 1300 mile trip in the Odyssey from Boston to Virginia and the first tank mileage was one of the lowest I had seen, like 21 on highway. I ran out of Supertech TC-W3, so I had to buy Penzoil TC-W3. The next tank was barely 22 mpg and so I stopped adding TC-W3 for subsequent tanks. I also 3M added fuel system cleaner. The last tank I got 25mpg! Which is incidentally highest I have ever seen. This is *without* TC-W3 and *after* the fuel system cleaner.
I will continue TC-W3 experiment with my Maxima but with the Odyssey, I am calling it quits.
Incidentally, it is lot of pain to do this on the road. Sticky funnel, sticky container and tipped container made quite a mess in the trunk.
- Vikas
Well, the Maxima gave lousy mileage too, from the 30+ it dropped to 27. As far as I can ascertain, Penzoil conventional with 1oz/5gal is NOT working for me :-(
I am going to go without TC-W3 for next couple of tanks to see what happens to mileage.
- Vikas
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am not jumping to any conclusions but half tank treated with TC-W3 on my Odyssey too gave me increased mileage. The tank was treated when it was half empty. It gave me 23.2 mpg which I rarely get in the mixed driving.
In both of my vehicles, initial results are encouraging. Obviously without having at least 3 tankful of data, no categorical statement can be made yet.
- Vikas
Well, the subsequent mpg went lower, on both my vehicles :-(
I just made a 1300 mile trip in the Odyssey from Boston to Virginia and the first tank mileage was one of the lowest I had seen, like 21 on highway. I ran out of Supertech TC-W3, so I had to buy Penzoil TC-W3. The next tank was barely 22 mpg and so I stopped adding TC-W3 for subsequent tanks. I also 3M added fuel system cleaner. The last tank I got 25mpg! Which is incidentally highest I have ever seen. This is *without* TC-W3 and *after* the fuel system cleaner.
I will continue TC-W3 experiment with my Maxima but with the Odyssey, I am calling it quits.
Incidentally, it is lot of pain to do this on the road. Sticky funnel, sticky container and tipped container made quite a mess in the trunk.
- Vikas
Well, the Maxima gave lousy mileage too, from the 30+ it dropped to 27. As far as I can ascertain, Penzoil conventional with 1oz/5gal is NOT working for me :-(
I am going to go without TC-W3 for next couple of tanks to see what happens to mileage.
- Vikas
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What is the normal variance in your mileage? Are you always/regularly getting 30+ MPG, i.e. is 27 MPG a realy anomaly?
Cheers,
Jeff
Cheers,
Jeff
For this time of year and for my style of driving, 30 is normal for this car. The first partial dosage of Walmart TC-W3 had resulted in well excess of 30 mpg.
The current tank would be with NO TC-W3, although there would be some residual from the last tank. If the mileage jumps up, it would confirm my hunch.
- Vikas
The current tank would be with NO TC-W3, although there would be some residual from the last tank. If the mileage jumps up, it would confirm my hunch.
- Vikas
What's your hunch? That the addition of the TC-W3 causes mpgs to spike, then drop? Enhanced lubrication, followed by the onset of slight plug fouling might explain this. On the other hand, I have been using TC-W3 (the PZ ester syn version) for about three weeks now, and I have not seen a distinct pattern like that. I'll be sticking with it for a while (unless some clear reason for an abort surfaces...), and will report back.
My hunch would be to try it again with Walmart TC-W3.
I do not suspect slight plug fouling. From my perspective, slight plug fouling is like being slightly pregnant
Seriously, even if there is slight plug fouling, unless there is constant supply, it will burn it off pretty quickly. The performance and driveability would impair quite a lot with any kind of plug fouling.
On the other hand, injector spray pattern degradation can be slight and might be felt as losing the zip of the engine and/or crisp throttle response.
Anyway, anybody else using PZ conventional TC-W3? Most of you are using PZ semi or full synth TC-W3.
- Vikas
I do not suspect slight plug fouling. From my perspective, slight plug fouling is like being slightly pregnant
Seriously, even if there is slight plug fouling, unless there is constant supply, it will burn it off pretty quickly. The performance and driveability would impair quite a lot with any kind of plug fouling.On the other hand, injector spray pattern degradation can be slight and might be felt as losing the zip of the engine and/or crisp throttle response.
Anyway, anybody else using PZ conventional TC-W3? Most of you are using PZ semi or full synth TC-W3.
- Vikas
Originally Posted By: Vikas
. . .
I do not suspect slight plug fouling. From my perspective, slight plug fouling is like being slightly pregnant Seriously, even if there is slight plug fouling, unless there is constant supply, it will burn it off pretty quickly. The performance and driveability would impair quite a lot with any kind of plug fouling.. . .
But you'd have to admit, there's a big difference between 1-2 months pregnant, and 8-9 months. I do cause the car (by feeding it TC-W3 every fillup) to have a constant supply of oil in the fuel. Unless it managed to catastrophically foul in a very short time, I would think there'd be some "build up" time before you got to the point of getting full-blown misfires (and thus probably a CEL/MIL too).
. . .
I do not suspect slight plug fouling. From my perspective, slight plug fouling is like being slightly pregnant
Seriously, even if there is slight plug fouling, unless there is constant supply, it will burn it off pretty quickly. The performance and driveability would impair quite a lot with any kind of plug fouling.. . .But you'd have to admit, there's a big difference between 1-2 months pregnant, and 8-9 months. I do cause the car (by feeding it TC-W3 every fillup) to have a constant supply of oil in the fuel. Unless it managed to catastrophically foul in a very short time, I would think there'd be some "build up" time before you got to the point of getting full-blown misfires (and thus probably a CEL/MIL too).
I've recently started adding TCW3 to gas (2oz/10gal) and noticed the following. Almost immediately after I added it for the first time (later same day anyway) my car became significantly louder. Not engine noise, but exhaust noise. Like I had added one of those tailpipe resonators - which I hate BTW, I have a neighbor who uses one and drives around at 2AM, you get the idea. Haven't really noticed any other change. This is a '98 Jetta, using Maxlife 10W40. Only other additive I use was about 100cc of Lubri Moly MoS2 that I added at the last oil change, about 2 months ago. The muffler on the car is almost brand new - replaced at Midas 4 months ago.
I'm not sure how the TCW3 would make such exhaust noise, but the change was conspicuous and I don't believe in coincidences.
(edit) the TCW3 is Walmart's Super Tech FWIW
I'm not sure how the TCW3 would make such exhaust noise, but the change was conspicuous and I don't believe in coincidences.
(edit) the TCW3 is Walmart's Super Tech FWIW
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Wow that's a first. You sure it's not something with the fairly new exhaust. I know you don't believe in coincidences, but
Yeah I'm pretty sure. Guess I'll have to finish this tank and see if the next one w/o TCW3 is still loud or not.
I did have the new pipe adjusted once - on the same day it was installed, without even leaving the shop. It was LOUD. Car-shaking loud. They had forgotten a weld.
This time it's different.
I did have the new pipe adjusted once - on the same day it was installed, without even leaving the shop. It was LOUD. Car-shaking loud. They had forgotten a weld.
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The only reason I said it is sometimes when they replace an exhaust system a donut gasket up on the exhaust manifold, or a flange, or some other part that wasn't changed might start leaking from them removing and replacing pipes and moving things around. Keep us posted!
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