[1998 Fiat TD100] How clear is suspiciously clear?

[Garak]

What is the SA and TBN? If it's anything like Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w-30, with TBN of 10 or greater and SA or 1 or less, I'd say no problem whatsoever. After all, various European approval lists include things like Castrol 0w-30, 0w-40, and 5w-40 all at once; all have the appropriate HTHS. Even if the TBN were less, it won't be a problem at a conservative OCI.

In North America, HDEOs that just meet CJ-4, without being E7, E9 type lubes will often have a TBN under 8, and fare just fine. Of course, they don't get all the fanciest builder approvals.

Speaking of how things change, it's amazing how the 5w-30 HDEOs disappeared a few years ago with the CJ-4 rollout, and now they've come back well into the CJ-4 life cycle.

 

[chrisri]

TBN is strong at 13. No data for SA level, but since it meets E6 , E7 and have MB 228.51 approval I presume it's in range of 1.3-1.5. This levels are In line with A3/B4 oils with stronger additive pack. What's bothering me is 100C viscosity of 11.5.

 

[Garak]

Heck, given the ACEA specs, it should have SA of 1 or less. The TBN is strong, as you indicate. Don't worry about the KV100. It's well with the SAE 30 range; in fact, it's near the upper end, and the HTHS will be obviously 3.5 or greater as you already mentioned.

 

[chrisri]

I forgot that SA level limit for ACEA low SAPS spec was set at 1% or less. Somehow I thought it was 1.4% for HDEO and 0.8 for C3 car spec.
Anyway thanks, I'll give it a try on next OCI.

 

[Garak]

Sounds like a plan. You should take a picture of the bottles for us!

 

[chrisri]

No bottles I'm afraid. Smallest one can buy is 20L drum, but I'm getting my from bulk in my own containers.

 

[Garak]

Oh well, that's the way it goes. One of these days, I'll have to see if Imperial Oil will let me drag a camera around their warehouse so I can take some pictures of some unique stuff. I'm afraid, however, that they'd call the funny farm and I'd get hauled off. They did have some nice 1200 L containers there.

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: Popsy
Very clear oil, aka miracle in my motor?


A few days ago, it was time for an OC in my old 1998 Fiat Marea 1,9 Turbodiesel. I grabbed a new oil filter, some Rimula R6 M oil I just bought in bulk...

Except that was not Rimula R6 in the tin (my bad, got caught by a coolant sensor issue and grabbed the wrong tin), it was a "Frankenbrew" made of some various oil (~50% Shell HX7 10W40 diesel and Elf 10W40 diesel, ~50% Elf 5W30 "gasoline" and Helix Ultra 5W40 "gasoline").
Oil pan was already filled with Frankenbrew, and since all these oils are API CF, I figured I'd wait and see what happens. Motor was running fine and smooth, I drove ~900 miles without troubles.
Today I checked and the oil is still very clear, almost impossible to see on the oil stick!
With this old tech motor oil is usually pitch black as soon as you change it and turn the motor on, I've never seen oil this clear, even when it was new!
EGR is disabled and the sensor I fixed corrected some minor spark advance issue I had when hot, but I don't think this is the cause for clearer oil.

Is it a sign the oil can't handle the soot? Should I change it right away?

(I usually use this "Frankenbrew" in some lawn mower of very old motor like Peugeot J7 diesel, good enough for it)


Am i allowed to call [censored]?

 

[bigjl]

One point have never seen any Shell Helix oil that is petrol only.

Or indeed any other oil that is rated as petrol only.

For many years every oil I have bought and looked at has been Acea A and B rated.

 

[chrisri]

I know at least one oil that carries only B4 spec, but that's probably just marketing [censored]. But yes, you're right, most passenger car oils are dual rated. There are also oils like Ultra and Ultra Diesel, both the same thing, but to someone who can't read specs one is a Diesel oil, and other is strictly petrol stuff.

 

[Popsy]

Obviously I am not a native speaker, I think I do not fully understand I think???

There is two types of Helix easily available here, one is «diesel», and one «essence». Both carry gasoline and petrol specifications...as every other oils involved here, but ? Hence the «»
I guess there is a slight formula difference, but who knows? Some oils were low saps.

 

[supercity]

ACEA passenger car oil classifications have all been dual rated since 2004, i.e. ACEA A and B were made obsolete and replaced by Ax/Bx which is one single classification not two separate ones. There is no such thing as "ACEA B4" any more.

I would speculate the low SAPS classification C would have likely been ACEA C and D if it were introduced at the same time as A and B but since C came much later, the need for the second letter was redundant.

For some reason they choose to reserve D though and use E for HDEO.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
For many years every oil I have bought and looked at has been Acea A and B rated.

I've got a question for you guys on that side of the pond. Now, we know that A3/B3 A3/B4 lubes are perfectly acceptable for a lot of European passenger car diesels, sold in all markets. An A1/B1 A5/B5 oil is also technically dual rated, but what diesels actually call for the B1 and B5 part of things? Those are essentially SN/GF-5 type lubes here in North America, and I can't think of a diesel where I'd want to run something like that.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: supercity
ACEA passenger car oil classifications have all been dual rated since 2004, i.e. ACEA A and B were made obsolete and replaced by Ax/Bx which is one single classification not two separate ones. There is no such thing as "ACEA B4" any more.

I would speculate the low SAPS classification C would have likely been ACEA C and D if it were introduced at the same time as A and B but since C came much later, the need for the second letter was redundant.

For some reason they choose to reserve D though and use E for HDEO.




You are right on a part that Ax and Bx spec were merged together into A3/B4 spec, but it seems that's not a legal requirement. I have Selenia WR 5w40 oil with B3/B4 spec only, there's no A3 spec on it. I'm sure it CAN meet A3 spec, but they deliberately choose not to, probably because they market this oil specifically to common rail engines.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: bigjl
For many years every oil I have bought and looked at has been Acea A and B rated.

I've got a question for you guys on that side of the pond. Now, we know that A3/B3 A3/B4 lubes are perfectly acceptable for a lot of European passenger car diesels, sold in all markets. An A1/B1 A5/B5 oil is also technically dual rated, but what diesels actually call for the B1 and B5 part of things? Those are essentially SN/GF-5 type lubes here in North America, and I can't think of a diesel where I'd want to run something like that.

Garak, I think B1 and B5 were specified for older (pre DPF) Ford engines. I could be wrong, I go by logic that A1 and A5 were predominantly Ford petrol specification.

 

[supercity]

New Ford diesels like the the 3.2 5cyl run M2C-913D which is basically B5 2012. Volvo also spec B5. B5 is essentially a lower HTHS viscosity B4.

Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda with dpf use C1.

A lot of Japanese diesels spec B1 but B1 lubes are rare. Toyota, Mitsubishi etc.

 

[chrisri]

I'm not familiar with any modern diesel not equipped with notorious DPF. All new Fords sold here are specified for ACEA C group of oils. Which one specifically depends if engine is their own, Volvo's one (not sure if Ford still use them) or FIAT engines used in Ford Ka. Of course, Ford have it's own specs on top of ACEA.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: Popsy
Very clear oil, aka miracle in my motor?


A few days ago, it was time for an OC in my old 1998 Fiat Marea 1,9 Turbodiesel. I grabbed a new oil filter, some Rimula R6 M oil I just bought in bulk...

Except that was not Rimula R6 in the tin (my bad, got caught by a coolant sensor issue and grabbed the wrong tin), it was a "Frankenbrew" made of some various oil (~50% Shell HX7 10W40 diesel and Elf 10W40 diesel, ~50% Elf 5W30 "gasoline" and Helix Ultra 5W40 "gasoline").
Oil pan was already filled with Frankenbrew, and since all these oils are API CF, I figured I'd wait and see what happens. Motor was running fine and smooth, I drove ~900 miles without troubles.
Today I checked and the oil is still very clear, almost impossible to see on the oil stick!
With this old tech motor oil is usually pitch black as soon as you change it and turn the motor on, I've never seen oil this clear, even when it was new!
EGR is disabled and the sensor I fixed corrected some minor spark advance issue I had when hot, but I don't think this is the cause for clearer oil.

Is it a sign the oil can't handle the soot? Should I change it right away?

(I usually use this "Frankenbrew" in some lawn mower of very old motor like Peugeot J7 diesel, good enough for it)


Am i allowed to call [censored]?
It must be "old tech" to have a "spark advance" problem in a diesel.

 

[Popsy]

Lol, incorrect term. This is not a 1930 semi diesel with spark plug, there's a solenoid valve on the mechanical fuel pump which is supposed to control advance timing. The valve is controlled by ecu depending on data reported by sensors...works fine when all sensors are ok and ecu does not become crazy. When things go bad, it smokes grey/blue, start with difficulties, is slow as [censored]...the joy of old italian motors

PS: in my native language advance timing and spark advance means pretty much the same thing, this is my excuse for the mistake I made

 

[Garak]

Thanks for the info, guys. Basically, a B5 diesel is something we never got in North America unless we did the importing ourselves.