1997 Toyota Avalon (1MF-ZE) oil recommendation

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Hi BITOG! First post.

Sorry this is a long post – feel free to ignore. I am just selfishly asking for advice. If you have the time to read this and help by chiming in, I would be grateful. If not, just move on.

A week ago I bought my first car ever, a 1997 Toyota Avalon with 160k miles, for $2800. I am in my mid thirties and have lived most of my life in various European cities where all I really needed was public transportation, a bicycle, sometimes car rides from friends, plus the occasional rental car or friend lending theirs.

I've lived in Northern California for the last 2 years and managed ok with the above, but finally bit the bullet and bought a car because I want to see more of the USA before I leave. I don't know when exactly I will be leaving, but here's an estimate: 20% chance to leave the US 1 year from now; 70% chance of leaving the US 2 years from now; 10% chance of staying 3 years or more in the US. As I am now rather low on money, I hope to avoid doing repairs on the car for the first year.

I don't need the car for commuting or anything; I bought it just for road trips on holidays and weekends. Now that I have it, I will no doubt use it for other purposes too, but I expect to be racking up mostly highway miles.

The '97 Avalon has the 1MZ-FE V6 engine infamous for sludge problems, especially if the oil hasn't been changed often enough (which applies to Toyota's 7.5k mile recommendation). This car is fairly well-maintained and has never been in an accident: I bought it from the original owner; it came with all the maintenance records, including a print-out for each oil change ever performed on the car, which were done twice a year at 4.5-5k mile intervals, mostly at Toyota dealerships, mostly with premium bulk dino oil, like Chevron Supreme 5W30 (which was used for the last 3 oil changes). Note: 5W30 was used year after year even in the summer for this Californian Central Valley car despite the manual dictating 10W30 for over 100ºF weather. Does this matter?

I took it to a Toyota dealership for a pre-purchase inspection. The mechanic there said the car would be ok to drive as it is for a year, but eventually the slightly leaky valve cover gaskets (with 80k miles on them) would have to be replaced (a $300+ job because with the 1MZ-FE a lot of stuff needs to be removed for access) and they found oil at the bottom of the timing-belt cover, guessing the cam-shaft seals were leaking, and guessed that the timing-belt would also have oil on it and be weakened. However, the timing belt was changed 15k miles / 2 years ago, so it should last a little longer, even if weakened. Plus the engine (early 1MZ-FE, before VVT-i) is a non-interference (freewheeling) type, so if the belt snaps, the valves and pistons should not be damaged and all I need is a tow to get a new timing-belt. If I stay in the US for more than a year, I plan to do these $1000+ of repairs in about a year's time. If I sell it before, I will be upfront about the repairs needed. Car drips no oil at all where it is parked.

Perhaps indicating another minor problem, the smog certificates show that HC (hydrocarbons) in the 15mph test were 51ppm in 2012 and 2014 (2013 and 2011 just say “pass”) when the max allowed was 52ppm. 2010 it was only 9ppm; and before even lower. I have no idea why the hydrocarbons are high lately, but at least they are consistent.

Also, now that I've been driving the car for a week, it has stalled on start-up twice when starting when the engine is already hot: engine sounds like it starts, RPM goes to normal idle for maybe half a second, but then RPM drops and engine stalls in just one second. One time the next try started the car fine, another time it repeated this stall once and started third time fine. I have no idea what caused these stalls and would appreciate guestimates. Otherwise it runs and idles fine, with no weird sounds or anything.

After buying this car and reading about the 1MZ-FE V6 engine sludge issues, I first thought I should try a preventative flush with something like Auto-RX, before reading that this might actually cause more problems by flushing gunk to where it hurts more (blocking a passage); that Auto-RX would make more sense after opening and manually cleaning the valve covers, which I hope to not do for a year because I am low on money (and don't have a garage of my own where to do it cheaply). Plus Auto-RX might also clean up gunk around cracked seals and exacerbate the minor oil leaks that the engine has.

So, the opposite alternative is to continue business as usual, maybe decreasing OCI to 3k miles, with stuff like Chevron Supreme (and use 10W30 for summer, as mandated by the manual).

The half-way option is to change to a full synthetic oil with more detergents, in the hope of gradually reducing gunk and sludge from the engine. For that, I thought Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra or Redline sound like they might have too much detergents without the seal conditioners to keep my oil leaks from worsening, so I was thinking more along the lines of Valvoline Maxlife or Mobil 1 High Mileage, which have both a lot of detergents and seal-conditioners, to keep the leaks from getting worse, while hopefully reducing sludge gradually or at least keeping it from getting worse, with an OCI of 3k miles to begin with. Is this a sensible approach? The car is due for an oil change, with 4k miles from the last one.

I plan on doing a roadtrip to Grand Canyon and thereabouts in late May – early June, where it gets quite hot. So I was planning on using 10W30. If the new oil does dissolve some of the possible sludge inside the engine, does that impact at all what grade I should be using?

I was also thinking that it probably wouldn't hurt to try to “rinse” the injectors with some sort of fuel treatment with detergents, something like Redline SI1 or Gumout All In One (other recommendations welcome). Admittedly I don't really know anything about these. I guess it would be best to do the “first flush” before the upcoming oil change, rather than with nice new oil.

Regardless of what else I do, I plan to change the PCV valve very soon since it is cheap and easy to do and a gummed up PCV valve one is one the major reasons the 1MZ-FE gets sludge build-up. I guess I would be better changing to a new PCV valve with new oil? Or maybe it doesn't matter?

Any comments on any of the things I mentioned are welcome. Thanks!
 
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I would use fuel system cleaner in 1 or 2 tanks just before oil change. Mobil 1 5-10W30 High Mileage is a very good choice for a slight valve cover gasket and cam-shaft seals leak. Mobil 1 of any type can easily be used for 8-10k miles, but for this engine I would keep it no more than 6-7k miles.

For oil filter I think this engine can use longer filter because it has room for it, and the longer filter has more holding capacity to catch all debris that Mobil 1 may clean up.
 
Welcome
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Congrats on the new ride, sounds clean

Why not DIY the valve cover gaskets/plug tube seals and plugs, and the PCV valve while your in there, because IIRC you have to pull the plenum to do any of this work.

Any Full Syn 5w-30 would be a good idea. Take you pick, or go by sale
 
PS: I know nothing about oil filters so any suggestions as to what filter to use with which oil (and at what point in the gradual de-sludging process) are welcome.
 
The recommended oil filter according to Fram online catalog is Tough Guard TG3614 or Ultra XG3614. If you change oil and filter every 6-7k miles then Tough Guard TG3614 is a good one and cost about $5-6 only.
 
Don't use auto-rx. it won't be needed. the current oils are good enough already.

Not sure why you wouldn't go with 5w-30 as recommended.

I'd say to use the toyota OEM filter. Get them locally if your local toyota discounts parts.

Or search online (often ebay) to find a dealer that will sell it at discount rate. Usually they'll bundle in the drain gaskets to the deal too. Typically cheaper if you buy them in 5 or 10.

If you're thinking of buying other genuine toyota replacement parts for now and the future; even random stuff like wiper blades, pcv, air filter, etc etc; build up your order all together and put it in at the cheapest online Toyota Dealer you can find, and that'll amortize your shipping.


If you have the itch, then go ahead and use Redline si-1 in your tank. I'd say use the bottle over 2 tanks, rather then the 1 tank. Do it the 2 tanks prior to your oil change, although it shouldn't matter.
 
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Based on the fact that it was a 1 owner car, with well documented oil-changes @ reasonable intervals, I wouldn't worry too much about sludge. Continue to run a slightly shorter OCI w/ a quality oil and you should be fine.. Valvoline Max-life is a great HM oil,10w30 should be fine for that road-trip as well.

I would focus on fixing the leaks you mentioned as well as the hot-start issues.. the last thing you want on that road-trip is to be stranded!

A few bottles of fuel injector cleaner can't hurt, however from what I've seen it rarely ever helps either..

Good luck w/ your 1st car and good pick, those things are tanks if maintained properly!
 
Oooh, replies already! Thank you HTSS_TR! thank you michaelluscher!

Thanks for the oil and filter suggestions. And yes, I would be up for DIYing the valve cover gaskets, but at least for now, I have no space where to do it. I'll be looking around and maybe someone can lend their garage for a weekend...

Edit: Thank you raytseng and william!

I think I will be bringing the car tomorrow to an independent mechanic I know who works mostly on Toyotas and Hondas and ask about the hot-start issue.
 
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The OEM air filters seem very good but I thought the oem oil filters are only 50% efficient. While Motorcraft, Fram Ultras are closer to 90%+. When using an MC filter and oil in my Matrix the oil seems to stay a nice honey color throughout the oci versus turning black after a few thousand miles on the oem oil filter(Mobil 5k) or a fram ocod(QS oil). Plus a $2 rebate on the Fram Ultras right now and you can buy them at Walmart.

What part of CA? Maybe the Critic can help you. Of course he's probably super busy helping others out.

I'd start with some cheap preventative maintenance. Clean the throttle body and a new oem pcv valve.

Then maybe a drain and fill for the transmission with the oem atf.
 
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I have worked on daughters 02 Camry with the same engine. The throttle body may need cleaning, I did that once when the rpms would drop and the engine stall. Fixed it. The sludge issue is a myth, I would bet money that well oiled CA car has no sludge, the 02 has none at 145K. She got it at 80k, I use Pennz Platinum 5w-30 with a Denso or Fram Ultra filter, standard size, xg3714,changed every 5k miles. The engine takes exactly one 5 qt jug with the standard sized filter, puts it exactly on the full mark. 5w-30 is fine all seasons all areas. Hers is right to full at the 5k oil change. Check the coolant hoses, from the heater core to engine especially, change the trans oil using only Toyota brand oil, and I would say you are good to go unless the oil leaks are bad enough to leave oil on under the car. It is a bear to change the valve cover gasket on the rear bank, as you stated.
 
starting issue:
I cam suggest taking a look at fuel. It can be possible that the fuel pump or other part of the fuel system isn't holding pressure, so the first start doesn't hold. Perhaps heat is related to the pressure loss.

You can test by putting car in on position for say 10 seconds to give the pump time to re-establish pressure. Then start the car. See if this make a difference in your results versus your usual routine
 
Lots of very good sounding suggestions, thank you all.

Fram Ultras seem to be popular among you and I bet you guys know your stuff better than most. As to oil, I guess it is a toss-up between Valvoline Maxlife and Mobil 1 HM.

I watched a youtube video about how to clean the throttle body, and it seemed like a fairly easy DIY case, so I'll do that anyway and hope it helps with the hot starts. Doesn't hurt to do it anyway. I'll first try raytseng's trick of putting ignition on for 10s to see what difference that makes.

I need to check when ATF was last flushed: I don't remember off the top of my head. Putting on my to-do list.

Also good to know that OEM ATF and PCV valves are what you recommend.

Will check the coolant hoses, as per goodtimes' suggestion.

Satinsilver: I am in the Sacramento region.

Good to hear that my engine is not very likely to be sludged up.
 
We had a 99 Avalon that I ran to 100K with various Pennzoil products, and it was going strong when we sold it.

If I were in your situation I would run an HM oil or a name brand 5W-30 syn with a bottle of Lubromoly oil saver in it. Change every 5 or 6K with a premium filter and you are most likely in good shape. With the conditions you describe, a bottle or 2 of Techron or the Redline equivalent would not be a bad idea either. Good luck.
 
This is an 18 YO car, albeit one with low miles for its age and sounding from you discription to be very well kept.
This car would have rusted itself into oblivion here long before.
A few bottles of any high PEA cleaner over a few tanks of fuel would not be amiss.
Red Line SI-1, or Gumout Regain or AIO, or CRC G2P would be good choices, with Red Line being the most costly option.
If this engine has any internal deposits, a few shortish runs of any oil and filter should go a long way toward cleaning it up.
Based upon what you've writen, I'd use the car locally for a bit before setting out on a long trip.
If something is going to fail, better that it fail near your abode than out in the wilds of nowhere.
Good luck with this nice old Toy.
Keep us posted om how the ownership experience goes.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I have worked on daughters 02 Camry with the same engine. The throttle body may need cleaning, I did that once when the rpms would drop and the engine stall. Fixed it. The sludge issue is a myth, I would bet money that well oiled CA car has no sludge, the 02 has none at 145K. She got it at 80k, I use Pennz Platinum 5w-30 with a Denso or Fram Ultra filter, standard size, xg3714,changed every 5k miles. The engine takes exactly one 5 qt jug with the standard sized filter, puts it exactly on the full mark. 5w-30 is fine all seasons all areas. Hers is right to full at the 5k oil change. Check the coolant hoses, from the heater core to engine especially, change the trans oil using only Toyota brand oil, and I would say you are good to go unless the oil leaks are bad enough to leave oil on under the car. It is a bear to change the valve cover gasket on the rear bank, as you stated.


I have a 98 Sienna with the same engine.
+1 on the throttle body cleaning and PCV valve replacement. You should also clean the Idle Air control valve which is a small hole at base of the throttle plate. Just spray some throttle body cleaner in it.

Once you open the front valve cover you will see if it's got any sludge. My sienna has some varnish and slight sludge in the corners. I've been running Pennzoil Platinum in mine, but any 5w-30 will be fine. I use a napa gold filter 1516 (which is oversized).

Congrats on the new ride.
 
These engines are known to be sludgers, but only when neglected and/or short-tripped, which doesn't appear to be your intention with the vehicle. The problem would arise if the car idled lots in traffic, running the complete interval, with lots of short trips.

If you are concerned about the sludge issue, then I'd suggest a diet of any synthetic oil, changed at the same intervals the P.O. has been doing.
Consider Used Oil Analysis too, just to see where things are at.

A car that is run on the highway should't have trouble with sludge, mostly in part because the offending particles in the oil (moisture, carbon etc) is burned off with the higher, but steady oil temperature.
BMW, for my model year (1993), recommended vehicles that are regularly short-tripped be run for at least 10 minutes on the highway weekly, to ensure deposits have a chance to be burned off.

FYI: There was a photo of a Toyota Camry 2nd gen V6 (Same engine) on the ToyotaNation forums. It had 3K oil changes.
There was no varnish on the top end, nor any sludge. Clean as a whistle.
(I was looking into a 2nd gen Camry as a first car for quite a while, and know about their common niggles!)
 
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Originally Posted By: HuhOil
Any comments on any of the things I mentioned are welcome. Thanks!

Sure -- I'll make it easy for you.
Take a look here to see my results with the 1MZ-FE: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3484550/

Step-by-step guide:

1. Go to your local Walmart. Pick up a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w-30 and a Fram XG3614. While there, also get (2) 10oz. bottles of Chevron Techron Concentrate.
2. Change your oil.
3. Run gas down to about empty. Add Techron bottles. Refill with 91 octane. Don't believe me on that? Read your manual:
0EdA6Xa.png

You wouldn't think a 200-hp, naturally-aspirated 3.0L V6 would thrive on high octane, but they certainly do.
4. Replace the PCV valve and grommet. I've been using one from the local O'Reilly Auto without issue (changed every 20k)
5. Enjoy life.
 
Thanks again everyone for making my first forays into car ownership that much easier!

Cristobal, I am near Sacramento. I have a friend who works at / is gradually taking over his father's independent mechanic shop and they specialize in imports, particularly Toyotas and Hondas - and what I can't do myself I plan to do there.

fdcg27, yes, my plan is to drive a fair bit in the next couple of weeks locally to figure out how the car behaves before taking it for the first longer road trip.

JC1, thanks for pointing out the idle air control valve. The youtube video I watched pointed this out too, but doesn't hurt to remind me (and you could not have known). How much work is to remove ONLY the front valve cover?

B320i, thanks for the short-trip vs. highway explanation: it makes a lot of sense.

Ramblejam, I really like your step-by-step guide, thanks! Good tip about 91 octane, didn't know that.

I bought the car with rather worn out tires (Michelin MXV4 Primacy; two had 3/32", one 4/32", and the one which had been re-replaced later had 7/32" and became my new spare). After much deliberation online, I got new Michelin Premier A/S tires fitted on it today at Costco (altogether $543 after tax, fitting, balancing and all). They felt awesome on the ride home; quieter, kept a straight line better, and so forth.

While waiting for the tires, I picked up a 6-pack of 16oz bottles of Techron Fuel Injector cleaner: $19.99 seemed like a good price. Apparently two bottles of this would have about the same amount of detergents as one of the Techron concentrate:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1285560

Started treatment today: poured half of the first Techron bottle and then fueled up to 3/4 (less gas to burn through if something feels off). I thought I wouldn't want to "shock clean" it too much to start off with, in case the Techron dislodges something that then blocks an injector. I am still wondering whether to A) pour the other half with next (3/4) fuel up (from about empty, or if I want to increase concentration, fill when 1/4 empty), and then go for one whole bottle for the empty-to-full-tank after that, or B) pour 1.5 bottles at next fill from empty to full.

Anyway, after this Techron treatment, I plan to change the oil and wait for the duration of the OCI until doing it again.
 
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