1996 BMW M3 5MT - shift quality with 4 fluids

[d00df00d]

I've tried a few fluids in my 5-speed manual E36 M3, and I've just settled on one. I thought I'd drop a note about my impressions of shift quality.

The transmission specs Dexron III ATF. Here's what I've tried, in order:


1. Red Line D4 ATF. Good overall.
Slightly crunchy when cold, but usable. Great when warm. Shift quality slowly degraded over time.

2. Motul Dexron III. Bad.
Crunchy when cold AND when hot. I replaced it before the end of its service life.

3. Motul Multi-ATF. Excellent.
Great shift quality in all temps. Shift quality stayed the same beyond 30,000 miles; I only replaced it because I got cold feet.

4. RLI Bio-SynXtra ATF. Bad.
Crunchy shifts at almost all temps. I replaced it before the end of its service life.


I am now back to Motul Multi-ATF and happy as a clam.

FWIW.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Have you tried any dedicated manual transmission fluids (Synchromesh,Synchromax,Amsoil MTF/MTG,Redline MT90,etc)?

 

[d00df00d]

No, mainly because those are all significantly thicker than ATFs as far as I know.

 

[Pablo]

Quote:
2. Motul Dexron III. Bad.
Crunchy when cold AND when hot. I replaced it before the end of its service life.

3. Motul Multi-ATF. Excellent.
Great shift quality in all temps. Shift quality stayed the same beyond 30,000 miles; I only replaced it because I got cold feet.


Amazing these are so different in a MT. Does anyone have the specifications on each?

 

[dparm]

How does the OEM BMW fluid compare? Is it Castrol Transmax or something like that?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
No, mainly because those are all significantly thicker than ATFs as far as I know.


Synchromax afaik is the thinnest of the bunch. I`m willing to bet one of those fluids will give you better results since they have additives designed for synchro engagement.

 

[MolaKule]

I would try the Redline MTL XW80 or 85 or one of the Castrol Syntrans MTL specific lubes.

I would avoid any ATFs unless that's the only choice I had because I have not seen any ATF's with a sufficient level of anti-wear additives for MTLs.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: dparm
How does the OEM BMW fluid compare? Is it Castrol Transmax or something like that?

No idea -- never tried it.

Several years ago, when I asked a dealership near me for transmission fluid, they offered me NAPA Dexron-III ATF...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Synchromax afaik is the thinnest of the bunch. I`m willing to bet one of those fluids will give you better results since they have additives designed for synchro engagement.


Originally Posted By: MolaKule

I would try the Redline MTL XW80 or 85 or one of the Castrol Syntrans MTL specific lubes.

I would avoid any ATFs unless that's the only choice I had because I have not seen any ATF's with a sufficient level of anti-wear additives for MTLs.

Thanks for the tips.

What do I stand to gain from switching to a dedicated MTL? I'm quite happy with the shift feel of the Motul Multi-ATF; in terms of wear, I have to imagine a modern high-end ATF is going to be at least as good as what the car was designed for, and these transmissions are known to be very durable, especially with stock (or >198k mile old) power levels.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
No, mainly because those are all significantly thicker than ATFs as far as I know.


Synchromax afaik is the thinnest of the bunch. I`m willing to bet one of those fluids will give you better results since they have additives designed for synchro engagement.

That's what I'm running in my Bimmmer MT.
Definitely lighter than a dino ATF in the winter.
I like it a lot.

 

[Dave Hess]

What about trying an Amsoil lube ?

 

[d00df00d]

Despite appearances, I'm not trying fluids for the sake of it. I used Red Line D4 because it was the thing to do; I switched to Motul because it was free; and I tried RLI because I like the company. I'm happy to try something else but only if I stand to gain something from it. Motul Multi-ATF makes my shifts feel as good as I can imagine it getting, and wear control probably isn't a concern.

If anyone has thoughts to the contrary, I'm all ears.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
No, mainly because those are all significantly thicker than ATFs as far as I know.


Most ATF's (except for DexronVI-type fluids) are 7.5 cSt@100C.

Synchromax is 7.7 cSt@100C:
http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/wpcontent/uploads/PS_Synchromax.pdf

Motul ATF is 7.6 cSt@100C:
http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/149/Multi_ATF_(GB).pdf?1358764115

Quote:
in terms of wear, I have to imagine a modern high-end ATF is going to be at least as good as what the car was designed for
If wear is no concern, continue upon your chosen path.

 

[S12]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Despite appearances, I'm not trying fluids for the sake of it. I used Red Line D4 because it was the thing to do; I switched to Motul because it was free; and I tried RLI because I like the company. I'm happy to try something else but only if I stand to gain something from it. Motul Multi-ATF makes my shifts feel as good as I can imagine it getting, and wear control probably isn't a concern.

If anyone has thoughts to the contrary, I'm all ears.

Manual ZF transmissions in BMW's up to 1996 called for Dexron III and the Motul Multi ATF meets that spec so you are using the correct lubricant for your 96 M3. Interestingly ZF manual transmission manufactured from 1997 and on requir gear oil and Pentosin MTF 2 was the factory fill in BMW ZF manuals. Why ZF switched I have no idea, maybe ZF changed the design of there transmissions?

One thing I have noticed using Pentosin in my 99 M3 track car is that cold shifting isn't the best and some times it's hard to get the car into gear under 40 degrees but after a 30 minute session on track the transmission shifts perfectly.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: S12


One thing I have noticed using Pentosin in my 99 M3 track car is that cold shifting isn't the best and some times it's hard to get the car into gear under 40 degrees but after a 30 minute session on track the transmission shifts perfectly.



To be frank, most manual transmissions are clunky when it's 40 F or colder. My Integra GS-R, Mazdaspeed3, S2000, and S4 were all slow to get into gear in the winter time, even with fresh fluids. I tried OEM and high-end stuff like Motul Gear 300 (ultra high VI) and nothing really improved it.

 

[tommygunn]

How about Mobil 1 ATF? Maxlife is also a good option

Another good option is Mag 1 synthetic ATF

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: S12
One thing I have noticed using Pentosin in my 99 M3 track car is that cold shifting isn't the best and some times it's hard to get the car into gear under 40 degrees but after a 30 minute session on track the transmission shifts perfectly.


That shouldn't be Pentosin's issue. It is about the thinnest MTF made. Some transmissions are just finicky when cold.

 

[KenO]

'Factory' fluid is BMW MTF-LT2. Regardless of what the sticker on the trans says (sometimes ATF, sometimes MTF), I run either the OE fluid (I happened to score a 5-liter jug CHEAP once), or Redline MTL. Occasionally slightly hard shifting when cold, but that clears up after ~10 minutes of driving.


Like other parts of these cars, BMW spec'd things to make them 'nicer' to drive, NOT because it was good for it. Like extending service intervals, pushing brake fluid & coolant changes out 1 more year lowered cost of ownership to morons that go by Consumer Reports when they buy a performance luxury car..... The clutch delay valve slowed the flow of fluid into the clutch slave to smooth out shifting for people that can't drive a manual worth a [censored]. At the expense of reduced clutch life. Hence why the things specified are NOT always the thing best suited for your car.

 

[d00df00d]

Aren't crunchy shifts harder on synchros?

Either way, I don't doubt that there are fluids that would protect the bearings and gears better than an ATF would. The question is whether I would benefit from that extra protection. These transmissions are tough as nails even on the spec fluid, so failure is highly unlikely -- and even if mine does fail, my car is coming up on 200,000 relatively hard miles at this point, so it's not too far from retirement anyway. Given all that, I don't see the point of sacrificing shift quality for the possibility of longer bearing or gear life.

If my car were newer, or making vastly more power than stock, I would probably feel differently...

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Hence why the things specified are NOT always the thing best suited for your car.


Very good KenO and I couldn't agree more.


DoodFood:

As I stated before, if you are happy with your shifting and you are not concerned about wear, then go with what shifts best.

We give you the info, you decide.