15W30 base?

OM605

OM605

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I've noticed that most tractor supply stores sell 15W30 at a good price around here. I am curious what kind of base is used in this type of oil. Is it possible to make such an oil without using any VII using a group II base? Is it a "modern SAE30"? Here's some date about the most common one, Elf Agritec FE 15W30:

Supposed to provide the best shear resistance according to them.

International standardsACEA E7API CI-4/SL
Manufacturer approvals✓ Cummins CES 20078
✓ Deutz DQC III-10
✓ MB-Approval 228.3
Meets✓ Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-1-a
✓ Case MS 1121
✓ CNH MAT 3507
✓ Cummins CES 20077/20076
✓ New Holland NH 324H

ELF AGRITEC FE 15W-30UnitTest methodResult
Density at 15°Ckg/m3ASTM D1298883
Viscosity at 40°Cmm2/sASTM D44591
Viscosity at 100°Cmm2/sASTM D44512.5
Viscosity index-ASTM D2270133
Pour point°CASTM D97-30
T.B.NmgKOH/gASTM D289610
Sulphated ash% m/mASTM D8741.5
 
I doubt you'd get those numbers without at least a little VII, but I suppose it could be possible. It would probably be more expensive to do it without VII than it would to use it though.
 
any oil with a higher cold-W number can be stouter + prolly fine in warmer climates + guessing you could use cheeper base oils to blend it. BUT looking at specs it looks to be a dirty oil + that much sulphated ash might be ok if NOT DI, just my unprofessional thoughts + as always its always about the $$$$$$. like the Polaris-Victory 20-40 semi syn that was costly but performed poorly + broke down quickly as noted by poor shifting by users NOT me
 
Interesting, it has a VI of 133, and a KV100 of 12.5 cSt.

Group I & Group II have a max VI of 120, and rarely that high, 100 to 110 being more typical for some modern Group II monogrades I've seen.
www.machinerylubrication.com

Base Oil Groups Explained

Almost every lubricant used in plants today started off as just a base oil. The base oil category defines what the oil is made of, how it is manufactured, and how the lubricant handles certain environments such as extreme heat.The American Petroleum Institute (API) has categorized base oils into...
www.machinerylubrication.com www.machinerylubrication.com

Here are some typical Group II base stock from Pure Performance
Showing a typical KV100 of 4, 6.5 and 12 cSt for VI of 105, 100 and 95 respectively.

So your 15W30 doesn't look like a Group II monograde to me, the VI is too high.

Group III base stock has a better VI, but typically comes only in thinner viscosity. Max of about 8 cSt.
Shows a KV100 of about 4, 6 and 8 cSt for a VI of 132, 139 and 136 respectively.

So your 15W30 isn't a Group III monograde as its too thick.

Group IV (PAO) and Group V are out due to expense.

I would guess your oil does contain some VII, but it's built on thick base stock, so limited shear.
I hear Europe still has access to cheap Group I base oils. It could be a Group I or a Group I & II blend or a Group II (if you are lucky, but it should cost more for pure G-II).

My guess would be at least some Group I and no Group III, and yes some VII.
 
Last edited:
wpod said:
Chevron had some 15W-30 HDEO on the market a few years ago. If that is what you meant.
Click to expand...
Yes, they did. But I suspect the Chevron stuff was chasing the upper end of the market, while the OP may have some farm stuff chasing the lower end of the market.
 
M119 said:
For some reason i seem to be on a quest to find an oil with little or without VII...
Click to expand...
Same here. Just buy a monograde. I did and I'm using it now, Penrite SAE30 small engine oil. More details in this thread.

53' Stude's VOA- Carquest SAE 40

Posted courtesy of @53' Stude
bobistheoilguy.com

KV100 = 11 cSt, VI = 113, Zinc = 1170 ppm, TBN = 6.5, SA = 0.67% for the Penrite. It looks like a Group II monograde to me, so I'm running it in my car to see how it goes, even though it's a mower oil. The TBN is a bit low, so I will change a bit early, maybe 8,000 km / 5,000 miles.
 
I'm taking a look at a few SAE30, a Fuchs with a VI of 129 and a Motul with a VI of 112 however the ratings scare me a bit, API SF, SG and SJ... Looks like we're far from a modern add pack. Some of them have a TBN over 7 however.
 
M119 said:
I've noticed that most tractor supply stores sell 15W30 at a good price around here. I am curious what kind of base is used in this type of oil. Is it possible to make such an oil without using any VII using a group II base? Is it a "modern SAE30"? Here's some date about the most common one, Elf Agritec FE 15W30:

Supposed to provide the best shear resistance according to them.

International standardsACEA E7API CI-4/SL
Manufacturer approvals✓ Cummins CES 20078
✓ Deutz DQC III-10
✓ MB-Approval 228.3
Meets✓ Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-1-a
✓ Case MS 1121
✓ CNH MAT 3507
✓ Cummins CES 20077/20076
✓ New Holland NH 324H

ELF AGRITEC FE 15W-30UnitTest methodResult
Density at 15°Ckg/m3ASTM D1298883
Viscosity at 40°Cmm2/sASTM D44591
Viscosity at 100°Cmm2/sASTM D44512.5
Viscosity index-ASTM D2270133
Pour point°CASTM D97-30
T.B.NmgKOH/gASTM D289610
Sulphated ash% m/mASTM D8741.5
Click to expand...

Not with a VI of 133 it isn't. Probably has relatively low VII content, but definitely has some. Could be based on Group II or Group II+.
 
The only 15W30 offering we had here in the states was the Chevron stuff from a few years ago. It was supposedly a very stout oil but sadly it wasn't available long at all. I wanted to try some in my 05 PSD so bad but never did...
 
Kuato said:
Since Amsoil's SS 10w-30 was originally formulated as a straight 30, Yes the 15w-30 could be made with no VII.
Click to expand...
I think it was actually the HD30 that was VII free, it was indicated as being SAE30/10w-30. I could be wrong, it has been a few years and it doesn't appear they offer it anymore.
 
years ago Amsoils all real synthetic small engine was advertised as a 30W but functioned + met 10-30 requirements + Redlines is likely similar using a real synthetic, BUT are you willing to pay $$$$$
 
M119 said:
I'm taking a look at a few SAE30, a Fuchs with a VI of 129 and a Motul with a VI of 112 however the ratings scare me a bit, API SF, SG and SJ... Looks like we're far from a modern add pack. Some of them have a TBN over 7 however.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't get that either. In the USA they have API SN rated monogrades, as shown in the thread above. I assume they use the exact same add pack as in their multi-grades.

Yet here, the monograde I have in my car is only SG/CD even though they state "premium mineral, non-friction modified engine oil formulated with modern additives....four stroke engines...provides complete protection against wear & corrosion ...".

I can also get Penrite Mono Truck SAE30 that is for both petrol and diesel, VI = 111, KV100 = 11.4 cSt, zinc = 1420 ppm, Ca = 3090 ppm, TBN = 10.2 and it's API SG/CF-2 and ACEA E1.

Out: VII (by monograde definition), friction modifiers (also not in motorcycle oil), and probably PPD (pour point depressant). None of this is essential to me.

In: ZDDP (anti-oxidant & anti-wear), over base detergent (for TBN to neutralise acid build up) and I also assume other anti-corrosive adds, and dispersants for diesel soot handling. This should cover all the basic requirements.

So what's missing?
OK, the ZDDP is high, but the upper limits were for SN, so I can't see why it's not at least SL for these oils.
They haven't listed anti-foaming agents, but nobody ever does, and I assume this would be part of "modern additives ".

Maybe if they claim any active API rating, and I believe SL is still active, then they need it to be formally tested by a lab like Afton etc, and they just didn't want to go to this expense, for an almost nonexistent retail market (You, me, and Red from 'Bama who use to hang out here).
 
Your explanation makes sense, if i ever go through my stash of HX5 15W40 & cheap 5W40 i'll investigate more. Also, it seems like there are plenty of SL 10W30 in the lawnmower category!
 
M119 said:
Your explanation makes sense, if i ever go through my stash of HX5 15W40 & cheap 5W40 i'll investigate more. Also, it seems like there are plenty of SL 10W30 in the lawnmower category!
Click to expand...
Yep, lawn mower oil, running it in my car right now.

It was a normal price, which means I paid more than I wanted to, as car oil is often on sale, so I can pick up GTX 15W40 SN/CF & A3/B3 for very cheap when it's on sale. But mower oil is never on sale, so I paid full price!

Anyway, I wanted to give it a try, and so I did. It was more about following my own logic of "this should work...." and putting my money where my mouth was. Anyway, it seems a smooth and nice oil, for what it's worth, seat of the pants stuff. And it's still red on the stick after 1,000 km (it was dyed red).
 
I am like that too. Don't know where this urge to try something else comes from haha. I guess i'm bored in the bitog way.
 
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always LOTS of options + most ANY oil can be mail ordered. as usual its ALL about $$$$$,
 
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