12K miles on the wrong ATF. Advice?

[dschwarz]

Hi everyone - I'm new here, hope you have some insight into my current dilemma:

I have a 1999 Volkswagen Passat GLX V6 Sedan (Front wheel drive) with Tiptronic automatic transmission (mfg. by ZF, model 5HP19FL). The transmission was rebuilt 2 years ago by the local AAMCO shop (now out of business). It had 62K miles at the rebuild, and I've put on 12K since the rebuild.

Recently it's been occasionally shifting rough and/or shuddering. Can't pin down exactly which gear or driving conditions trigger the problem, but it is worrisome. I scanned the transmission computer and found it was reporting no codes.

I took it to my independent VW specialist and he checked the transmission fluid level. Level was fine, but to our surprise the fluid was cherry-red, not golden colored like the OEM fluid.

ZF specifies Esso LT-71141 fluid or equivalent for this transmission - Pentosin ATF-1 for example. Both are quite expensive, about $15/L. AAMCO charged me only $22.00 for the entire 9L of fluid they put in my transmission, which leads me to suspect that they used a cheap, out of spec substitute fluid.

So my question is, what to do next? This car has "lifetime" fluid, so no ATF dipstick. If I drop the pan and change the fluid and filter, I can only drain 5L of the 9L capacity, leaving me with a mix of old and new fluid. I have heard that there are ways to do a "power flush" via the cooling lines that would replace all 9L.

Any thoughts on whether this would be a wise or risky procedure to undertake? Any recommendations on where I can have the procedure done? I am in New York City. I do not plan to DIY this.

Thanks in advance!

 

[VK56VD]

They may have used a Universal fluid. Most shops like AAMCO use the cheapest fluid there is. I wouldn't be surprised if they used DEX III in your unit.

Do a complete flush via the cooler lines with the proper fluid.

 

[Kaboomba]

YOu may be up #*&$ creek.

FIRST try adding LubeGard Platinum ($14-16 at many NAPA stores), and see how that affects shifting. THEN, if there is no improvement:

If I were you I would do two flushes. First would use either AutoRX or LubeGard flush, and second would be to replace that fluid and have only spec fluid. After 15K or so I would then do a fluid exchange.

There's no telling what the non-spec fluid did to the friction materials and seals. If the non-spec 12K fuild does not smell burned, you are probably OK.

Here's the link so you can check out the LubeGard Platinum:

http://www.lubegard.com/pdfs/2008_Lubegard_PubCC.pdf

http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-113/LUBEGARD+Platinum+Universal+ATF+Protectant

 

[brandini]

Make them pay for the swap at the shop of your choice.

 

[VK56VD]

Originally Posted By: brandini
Make them pay for the swap at the shop of your choice.


He said the transmission was rebuilt 2 years ago. There may no longer be any warranty.

 

[hate2work]

And the shop is now out of business.

 

[hate2work]

Well, you're going to have to get the wrong fluid out and the correct fluid back in there. Do not do a drain and refill because you'd still have a lot of the wrong type of fluid in there. You really need to have it all replaced, assuming it's the wrong stuff, which is the way it sounds.

How much would it be for the independent VW guy to do it for you?

 

[dschwarz]

Thanks for the quick replies (more are always welcome!) I contacted AAMCO corporate and their answer is basically: we are not legally responsible for what our franchisees do, so they're not paying for any repairs. They did also say that in their technicians' opinion, any problems caused by improper fluid would have been evident within the first year of driving (i.e. within the AAMCO warranty period.) I don't know how valid this is because at the time I only drove 6K/year.

The fluid does not look or smell burnt.

 

[John_K]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: Spartuss
Originally Posted By: brandini
Make them pay for the swap at the shop of your choice.

He said the transmission was rebuilt 2 years ago. There may no longer be any warranty.

And the shop is now out of business.

But this looks like it might cover it:

http://www.aamco.com/AAMCO_extended_car-auto_warranty.asp

I'm guessing it depends on what you paid for to begin with?

 

[Kaboomba]

yep

Before you pay $$$ for service, try the LubeGard Platinum for $15. Let us know what happens.

 

[dschwarz]

There is no more warranty. I had the cheapest (12 month/1 year warranty, whichever occurs FIRST). Their extended warranty prices are sky-high.

I just looked up LubeGard Platinum. So this is a friction modifier that will change my existing ATF characteristics to eliminate shudder? Sounds like it's worth a try. The idea is that I will open up the transmission fill plug, drain 9oz ATF, then add 9oz LubeGard, and drive a few hundred miles (assuming the transmission still functions)?

What's the worst case scenario for adding LubeGard- could this stuff cause my transmission to operate worse than it does now, or is it relatively safe to add?

 

[RageOfFury]

Go to a VW dealer and have them flush it and filled with the proper fluid.

 

[Bigsyke]

How is he going to get the lubegard in the tranny if there is no dipstick?

How is he going to get the exact amount of fluid into the tranny using a cooler flush with no dipstick or fill?

Look at lubegards conversion chart and check the colum that says universal fluid (should show a black or grey dot) for your vehicle

VW's are tough, mine exploded off the dealer lot (like many many other VW's from what ive read)

 

[Dan55]

Here's some more info http://www.taligentx.com/passat/maintenance/atfchange/

 

[dschwarz]

Dan55 has linked to the absolute best writeup for Passat transmission ATF changes. Unfortunately I do not have any way to DIY this.

My indy VW mechanic does not have the equipment to do a full fluid change via the cooler lines. I'll call some VW dealers but I doubt they are going to touch it as their claim is that this car has "lifetime" fluid. My guess is that I'll have to find a transmission shop nearby.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: dschwarz
Thanks for the quick replies (more are always welcome!) I contacted AAMCO corporate and their answer is basically: we are not legally responsible for what our franchisees do, so they're not paying for any repairs. They did also say that in their technicians' opinion, any problems caused by improper fluid would have been evident within the first year of driving (i.e. within the AAMCO warranty period.) I don't know how valid this is because at the time I only drove 6K/year.

That is what's called classic CYA! I've never heard good things about AAMCO.

IMO, you need to get the old out, and correct in. Either a shop that specializes in VW or, hate to say it, a dealer. After that then you can try the additives mentioned if that doesn't improve the issue. Can only imagine what it will cost in NYC.

Wish I could be more helpful, but perhaps a trans fluid exchange will fix the issue. Lifetime fluid is a misnomer, and a dealer should be able to change it.

 

[nfs480]

Just because the fluid is red doesn't mean that it isn't compatible. Valvoline Maxlife ATF is compatible with certain VW transmissions and i've changed out the gold stuff before and put the maxlife (red) in. No problems, it's an approved fluid. For all you know they used a fully compatible albeit cheaper fluid. In my opinion, this is more likely the result of a low quality rebuild (something AAMCO is known for and why I will never let them touch a car of mine) rather than the fault of the fluid.

EDIT: It looks as though Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF is also approved for your vehicle, which would also lead to a red colored replacement (although i'm 110% sure this fluid wasn't used in your vehicle). The point I am just trying to make is that the fluid color means nothing.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
dschwarz - The original Esso fluid is typically green. These Transmissions are sensitive to non OEM fluids and they have done the wrong thing by you when refilling at rebuild time - why was it rebuilt? If an equivalent to Castrol's synthetic Transmax Z was used you probably don't need to worry. The price you paide suggests to me that it was indeed a "cheap" generic ATF

I have great reservations about using a non OEM flush facility but a VW or Porsche Dealer may be able to do it correctly - especially the refilling!

A check of my records show that some versions of this Transmission had a torque converter drain plug. Unfortunately you won't know this until you take the pan off and check. If it has a TQ drain plug then simply drain it and refill using the correct fluid and a new filter too. This will get most of the 9L out

If it does not have a TQ drain plug I would refill with the correct fluid without changing the filter. Do this twice more over a couple of months or so then at the last point change the filter. By now you will have most of the correct fluid installed

Then IMHO you will have done your best!

It may be wise to check the differential lubricant too - it may be incorrect! I think that the FF was Burmah (Castrol) SAF AG4 - this should be checked for NA compliance at the time

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dschwarz
Thanks for the quick replies (more are always welcome!) I contacted AAMCO corporate and their answer is basically: we are not legally responsible for what our franchisees do, so they're not paying for any repairs. They did also say that in their technicians' opinion, any problems caused by improper fluid would have been evident within the first year of driving (i.e. within the AAMCO warranty period.) I don't know how valid this is because at the time I only drove 6K/year.

The fluid does not look or smell burnt.


A fellow NY'er. Typical AAMCO, odds are even if the guy was still in business he'd have a million excuses for why he used the wrong fluid and then why he won't make good on it. I would do a complete flush, refill, and new filter. Don't add any cleaning agents to the unit. Fill it with the proper fluid and get the Lubegard tranny product for your unit and add that to the fresh clean fill of new fluid. Hopefully no damage was done. Good luck.

 

[dschwarz]

The transmission was rebuilt at 62K miles because it was slipping in 2nd gear and wasn't safe to drive. I was shocked that the transmission failed at such a low mileage. I'm the 2nd owner of the car so the VW powertrain warranty was no longer in effect at the time of failure. After the rebuild the car shifted perfectly for 24 months.

I'm guessing that the fluid AAMCO used was the cheapest available plus an additive to bring it up to spec. That would explain the low price, the cherry red color, and the fact that the rebuild didn't fail within the first 24 months.