100k miles original ATF, replace all at once?

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My cousin is buying an 04 Accord 4cyl with a little over 100k miles. More than likely the trans fluid is what the factory put in. Afaik the 4cyl AT's are stout, but I'm still concerned about whether swapping out all the fluid in one shot will do any damage. 3x3 method will get almost all the old fluid out. Planning to replace with Honda DW-1. Fwiw, here's Honda's procedure: 1. Set the parking brake, and raise the vehicle on a lift. 2. Drain the trans, and refill it with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to ISIS for details. 3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake. 4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to 2,500 rpm. • If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5. • If the trans won’t shift past 2nd gear, keep the engine speed at 2,500 rpm and shift from Drive to Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5. 5. Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter lockup. 6. Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero. Shift into Reverse and then into Neutral. 7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6 four more times. 8. Set the parking brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6 two more times. 9. Drain the trans, and reinstall the drain plug with a new sealing washer. 10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1.
 
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vinu_neuro

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That's the something I wanted to ask and forgot. It's got an inline filter. Should it be changed before or after doing all three r&r's?
 
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it's a little car with a little trans and a little cooling system, all sized appropriately. It will get just as hot as a big car with a big trans, actually. I don't think which method used matters, as long as you get the bulk of the old stuff out. A single drain, if left for a while, would get nearly 4 qts from my 7 qt '02 accord trans. I'd idle it in gear between drain-fills so the old stuff would mix in and be expelled from the TC. drain-fills waste more fluid. I'll get flamed.... but. I'd generally drain it, then start the car and idle for 15-30 seconds. It pumps in air, pushes out fomay fluid. there's no load, no clutching, and the bearings/teeth will all still be wet. Never did it long enough to get funny noises, never touched the gas. Nothing like that. Just let the air push more stuff out. It's worked for me... but it's not for everyone. Have done it with several cars I've owned. Knock on wood, I've never had an AT fail (though my fingers are crossed on the neglected 03 T&C we just picked up in my sig). The honda AT's behind the 4-lung seem to do well, even during the bad years in the early 00's. 2-3 drain fills will be fine. I'd use the new DW1 or amsoil. M
 
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11,656
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Quote:
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
Let me understand this. While the front wheels are jacked up, you are going to release the parking brake and put the car in the drive and get the wheels spinning while you rev the engine at 2500 rpm. You do know that parking brake applies to the non-driven wheels, right? Transmission does not know and nor does it care if the front wheels are up in the air I don't think that is a smart move. - Vikas
 
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Messages
238
Location
Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
Let me understand this. While the front wheels are jacked up, you are going to release the parking brake and put the car in the drive and get the wheels spinning while you rev the engine at 2500 rpm. You do know that parking brake applies to the non-driven wheels, right? Transmission does not know and nor does it care if the front wheels are up in the air I don't think that is a smart move. - Vikas
Yeah, I agree with Vikas (usually do). Procedure sounds little too much work. If you bring it to a dealer, the majority will charge you a $100 and drain it once. For around that same $100, you should be able to get a case of DW1, a filter and a new crush washer. I'm speaking from the experience of a 07 4 cyl Accord, but it should be the same, 7th gen, if I remember correctly. The filter is on the right under the air filter box. It has two pinch claps. You shouldn't need to jack up the car. The tranny bolt uses a 3/8" ratchet and will require a new crush washer. You'll get about 3.1 quarts out of the 7.x quarts per drain and refill. If it were me and this is my own opinion. I'd do a drain and refill off the bat and do once every oil change for the first 2 extra oil changes. That way by the time you do the third drain and refill, about 80% of the old fluid would be out. You could also do two drain and refills right away and get about 60% out right off the bat too. Then follow up with one or two drain and fills. Then I'd take the easy way out and do a drain and refill yearly.
 
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The Old North State
Quote:
Drain the trans, and refill it with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1
LOL UPDATE! It's so 'precision crafted' that we (Honda/Acura) have decided to discontinue Z-1 and replace with DW-1. Don't get me wrong, I've used Z-1 successfully with the simple 1 drain/fill procedure on ~20-25k interval on an 01 Civic, but Z1 has frequently been a whipping boy here. Thus the laughter at "precision crafted". To the topic, imo doing the 3x3 procedure in one shot shouldn't hurt anything. Except of course significantly lighten your wallet for the DW-1. And, rather than the lift method, I have read here/elsewhere that some modify the procedure by driving the vehicle in a similar to described lift procedure. Something to consider for diy.
 
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26,156
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MA, Mittelfranken.de
The instruction step 3 as posted sound like they are for something with RWD or uses a front mounted e-brake caliper combo. Otherwise it makes no sense at all.
 
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Let me understand this. While the front wheels are jacked up, you are going to release the parking brake and put the car in the drive and get the wheels spinning while you rev the engine at 2500 rpm. You do know that parking brake applies to the non-driven wheels, right? Transmission does not know and nor does it care if the front wheels are up in the air I don't think that is a smart move. - Vikas
I thought that too. But looks like the OP quoted from the service manual. Sounds like Honda has left out what they assume to be obvious steps, and that the vehicle is now to be driven on the road for the procedure from that point onwards. How else would you get it to cycle through all gears and lock up the TC? And to the OP, like others said, no Z1, use DW-1, MaxLife or another suitable fluid (suggest doing some homework and finding what has worked on Hondas spec'd for Z1 at Honda forums).
 

vinu_neuro

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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
Let me understand this. While the front wheels are jacked up, you are going to release the parking brake and put the car in the drive and get the wheels spinning while you rev the engine at 2500 rpm. You do know that parking brake applies to the non-driven wheels, right? Transmission does not know and nor does it care if the front wheels are up in the air I don't think that is a smart move. - Vikas
Am I concerned about the car flying away while it's supported by jackstands and the jack, with the wheels removed? No. Releasing the parking brake must have something to do with the traction control and/or TCU's logic. The parking brake thing is also written for ATTS procedures for my car. weebl, why wouldn't you get to torque converter lockup with the wheels in the air?
 
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Messages
26,156
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Quote:
Releasing the parking brake must have something to do with the traction control and/or TCU's logic.
That would be a complex circuit for an e-brake system. I suppose its possible but i think weebl hit it with a missed step. Running a car with CV Joints with the wheels off the ground is something i don't do, the CV angle seems a little much for my liking. It looks like it would be hard on the boots.
 
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I suspect, though I may not be correct, is that the TCU will be looking for some resistance at the wheels, and a free spinning wheel may not provide that. The TCU logic could be entire different I suppose. The other danger I can think of is that having a wheel spinning freely at high speed could pose a safety risk (debris ejected from tread, or the warnings that you should not spin the wheels at high speed when stuck in snow/mud, or the tire may explode, though I always do wonder about that one).
 
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Just drive the car after single drain and fill and bring it back and do it again if you are so inclined. Take it on a highway so it will lock the torque converter. You are not a flat rate mechanic and are not getting paid to get this vehicle done as quickly as possible. Why risk your car, life and your living room with your procedure? Have you not seen pictures of car ending up in the living room? - Vikas
 
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Lake Forest, CA
I agree with Vikas. The procedure as posted is not very safe. I change the ATF in my LS400 and E430 using Mityvac to siphon as much as possible, then fill with new fluid and drive normal for a day or two. Redo siphoning/refill 2 more times and done in a week.
 
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Washington St.
Just drain, refill, drive. Next week do it again. Once more the following week. The Honda transmissions drain a larger proportion of the fluid than many other transmissions.
 
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