At my shop, alot of our customers with newer hondas, toyotas, mazdas, and nissans that require 0w20 are just too cheap to use the proper grade oil, even though we carry Connoco Phillips blend as well as PP 0w20...so they opt for PYB 5w20 instead, against my advice. I have my own opinions on this, but what kind of long term (or short term for that matter) problems are they facing? I know most manufacturers of these cars can stand up to some abuse, but what do you guys think?
0w20 vs 5w20
- Thread starter Stang40
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do you make them sign a waiver? they could easily blame you for any damages, and even though it may not hold up in court it would really hurt your reputation
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Probably no adverse effects though I would think most 0W's would be better than most 5W's of the same brand. What's your take in that both are 20 weight oils. Curious.
Tell them they have to use 0w20 for manufacturer warranties (mainly to cover your business) or bring their own oil
I'd be careful. I could see them trying to make you responsible if a manufacturer denies a warranty claim...
I would think that a 5w would cause a slight increase in start up wear over 0w, but I think its maybe more so for fuel economy. But some of these newer engines are known for tighter tolerances. I guess it depends on the manufacturer and why they spec a 0w20. Could equate to no harm whatsoever, but I always recommend the manufacturer spec above all else. And to answer the other question, they are informed it could potentially void their warranty and it is documented....(CYA)
The toyota manual states that 5w20 may be used but must be switched back at the next OC. But I've got customers saying they've used it for 60k miles and it's working fine...hard to argue with that, at least until something happens...if anything happens.
May be hard to argue but for liability purposes I think you should always use what the car specs. Doing the right thing is what sets good shops apart from the rest
It is definitely documented and strongly recommended they follow manufacturer specs, but there is no reasoning with some people...never understood someone that can spend 30k on a new car and can't spend $60 on an oil change...I would rather them spend $30 and do it themselves so they use the right stuff. It's not my shop so honestly it's not my fault or my problem as long as I inform them...just try to pass along my knowledge to them but some people are too stubborn. Biggest problem is stubborn old men that use dino all their life and bring in their wife's new honda that requires 0w20.
There's a high chance that those engines will be ruined after 100k, not because of the viscosity but because of the oil change light calibration.
Cars that come factory filled with 0w20 have oil change lights calibrated for 7k+ OCI because 0w20 can only be made using full synth or at least a blend, no dino oil can reach that grade. If you put in 5w20 dino oil, then those cars are easily running 2-3k past the oil's life before the maintenance light turns on.
Cars that come factory filled with 0w20 have oil change lights calibrated for 7k+ OCI because 0w20 can only be made using full synth or at least a blend, no dino oil can reach that grade. If you put in 5w20 dino oil, then those cars are easily running 2-3k past the oil's life before the maintenance light turns on.
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Originally Posted By: Stang40
I would think that a 5w would cause a slight increase in start up wear over 0w, but I think its maybe more so for fuel economy. But some of these newer engines are known for tighter tolerances. I guess it depends on the manufacturer and why they spec a 0w20. Could equate to no harm whatsoever, but I always recommend the manufacturer spec above all else. And to answer the other question, they are informed it could potentially void their warranty and it is documented....(CYA)
Startup wear is caused by more than oil viscosity. Also, when mentioning tolerances, I think you mean clearances and they really haven't changed much in 60 years.
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
There's a high chance that those engines will be ruined after 100k, not because of the viscosity but because of the oil change light calibration.
Cars that come factory filled with 0w20 have oil change lights calibrated for 7k+ OCI because 0w20 can only be made using full synth or at least a blend, no dino oil can reach that grade. If you put in 5w20 dino oil, then those cars are easily running 2-3k past the oil's life before the maintenance light turns on.
That's pure speculation. I doubt there's any chance those engines will be ruined at all. Honda's and Toy's have been doing 10K intervals on conventional for years. Some of these engines are very easy on oil and it's well documented here.
I would think that a 5w would cause a slight increase in start up wear over 0w, but I think its maybe more so for fuel economy. But some of these newer engines are known for tighter tolerances. I guess it depends on the manufacturer and why they spec a 0w20. Could equate to no harm whatsoever, but I always recommend the manufacturer spec above all else. And to answer the other question, they are informed it could potentially void their warranty and it is documented....(CYA)
Startup wear is caused by more than oil viscosity. Also, when mentioning tolerances, I think you mean clearances and they really haven't changed much in 60 years.
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
There's a high chance that those engines will be ruined after 100k, not because of the viscosity but because of the oil change light calibration.
Cars that come factory filled with 0w20 have oil change lights calibrated for 7k+ OCI because 0w20 can only be made using full synth or at least a blend, no dino oil can reach that grade. If you put in 5w20 dino oil, then those cars are easily running 2-3k past the oil's life before the maintenance light turns on.
That's pure speculation. I doubt there's any chance those engines will be ruined at all. Honda's and Toy's have been doing 10K intervals on conventional for years. Some of these engines are very easy on oil and it's well documented here.
They tend to burn off 5w20 conventional in my experience.. Had lots of those same type of customers at previous job.
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Originally Posted By: Zaedock
That's pure speculation. I doubt there's any chance those engines will be ruined at all. Honda's and Toy's have been doing 10K intervals on conventional for years. Some of these engines are very easy on oil and it's well documented here.
To be fair though, some weren't. The V6 in the Odyssey with cylinder deactivation and anything covered in Toyota's sludge lawsuit come to mind
That's pure speculation. I doubt there's any chance those engines will be ruined at all. Honda's and Toy's have been doing 10K intervals on conventional for years. Some of these engines are very easy on oil and it's well documented here.
To be fair though, some weren't. The V6 in the Odyssey with cylinder deactivation and anything covered in Toyota's sludge lawsuit come to mind
That's why I said some.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Zaedock
That's why I said some.
Exactly
some were, and some really weren't, LOL!
That's why I said some.
Exactly
Personally, I think these OEM's are specing expensive (relatively) oil in inexpensive cars to maximize mileage for CAFE. However, oil manufacturers have needed to step up the oil quality to meet this need and 0W20 oils are typically "better built" than their 5W20 conventional counterparts. That's not to say that 5W20 is going to decrease the life expectancy of your 0W20 engine though.
My latest off road project is a one off tube chassis buggy powered by a turbo Jeep 2.5L four cylinder. I plan to run a high VI 0W20 oil to maximize power. It will be interesting to see how well it holds up.
My latest off road project is a one off tube chassis buggy powered by a turbo Jeep 2.5L four cylinder. I plan to run a high VI 0W20 oil to maximize power. It will be interesting to see how well it holds up.
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