0W20 Oil Choice Considerations ?

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1,055
Location
New York
So if other countries allow 5w30 in 2017 camry, toyota is using wider oil ports there? Or they dont care about their engines failing outside US? Whats the logic here?

A lot of it has to do with availability. Try buying a 0W-20 in Mexico compared to a "conventional" 5W-30. There isn't a huge difference in thickness anyways...
 
Messages
246
Location
South
I‘ve dealt with many engines that scattered and none were due to incorrect oil. We know what they say about opinions...
The damage as described was because excessive RPMs. A cold day/start didn’t help. Oil that’s “too thick” would seize the engine by gaulding the pump, bearings, cam, and etc.
 
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137
A lot of it has to do with availability. Try buying a 0W-20 in Mexico compared to a "conventional" 5W-30. There isn't a huge difference in thickness anyways...
Agreed, we can also probably agree that Toyota or others do not make different engines for Mexico with thicker oil channels. 5-30 and 0-20 are virtually identical, in fact at certain operating temperatures their viscosities overlap
 

ChrisD46

Thread starter
Messages
3,100
Location
GA.
Tried most 0w20 and 5W20 in the Subaru FB2.5 and 2.0. The Crosstrek, surprisingly, likes a very thin 0W20, so the Idemitsu Subaru Professional Use oil fit the bill. I have multiple UOA posted for a "2017 Subaru Crosstrek" that show much less wear metal in solution/suspension than the universal ave and this is with the OCI extended by 50-60% to ~9K miles.
I also ran Valvoline Advanced 0W20 with a top off of Magnatec 5W20. The Valvoline ran a bit sticky in the Subaru until a little Maggie went in on top, then the engine ran super smooth. Just a Casual - though professional - observation :)

There is no need for 0W20 in GA. A 5W20 would do fine, esp on a flat-plane crank engine. The Valvoline Advanced that you run in your Hyundai is an excellent 5w30 formulation - best out there IMHO on the Walmart shelves.; but formulations are changing.

Synthetics are not synthetic so there is no " Synthetic vs Conventional" argument to be made on PCMO anymore.

As far as Europe and Asia and So America vs. NO. America, the ECU programming on VVTi engine will vary with the
oil choice ( KV100) and in open loop where the cams can Advance and Retard many degrees, there is no precise hydraulic control other than the anticipate KV 100 viscosity range.
More viscous oil = higher line/drill pressures will equal more intake cam retard at any given rpm which will push the VE upwards in RPM possibly out of operating range and make the engine feel sluggish and have deleterious and cascading effect on other control systems like ECAT programming, EGR (if external), emission and heat loading, K sense, etc. In other words you don't want to go there on your DD except in special circumstances like High RPM ( 4500+) high load running ( Read "fast and furious" adventures)

I would just break the thing in with Motorcraft 5W20 or QS green bottle the first OCI after the FF
Absolutely no need for the best stuff to be employed right off the bat during wear in;
and keep that FF in there for ~3K miles/6mo. !

- Ken
*Corolla has a 4.4 qrt. sump (plus filter) ... I'm thinking Valvoline Advanced 0W20 with up to 1 qrt. of Castrol Magnatec 5W20 as a top shot could be a winning formula ... When my Hyundai Sonata was new , I changed the FF at about7850 miles with a syn blend oil and then changed it again at 3K miles with full synthetic since . On Pennzoil 5W30 the DI engine burns up to 1 qrt. of oil during a 4K ~ 5K oil change ... Some say my early oil change practice was the cause of oil usage during the OCI while others say - no , it's that particular engine design that's the cause . No matter , next new vehicle the factory oil stays in for 3K miles before the first oil change and the next oil change with what ever oil I have on hand - then after that which ever WM shelf synthetic oil for the long haul . Corvettes get shipped with synthetic oil from the factory , so I know synthetic oil early in an engines life isn't the culprit of oil usage (or is it ? ...Uhmmm.)
 
Messages
137
So when there is no reasonable explanation (other than improved MPG) of why the same engine part number uses different oil in other countries, or even in US for a different model year, one can always pull different ECU programming argument to accomodate for thinner oils? Brilliant!
 
Messages
125
Location
Virginia
Can't imagine there being anything wrong with VAS in either flavor -- 0w20, 5w20, whatever weight you choose. Personally, if it were my vehicle, I would probably gravitate toward the thicker weights, but that's just me. In my own experience, I drove a Mazda 2.5L engine well past 100K miles on 0w20 M1 AFE (while under warranty) with no known issues, so there's that.

If your manual specifies a range of acceptable oil viscosities for your local climate, stay within that range and you should be fine.
 
Messages
8
Tried most 0w20 and 5W20 in the Subaru FB2.5 and 2.0. The Crosstrek, surprisingly, likes a very thin 0W20, so the Idemitsu Subaru Professional Use oil fit the bill. I have multiple UOA posted for a "2017 Subaru Crosstrek" that show much less wear metal in solution/suspension than the universal ave and this is with the OCI extended by 50-60% to ~9K miles.
I also ran Valvoline Advanced 0W20 with a top off of Magnatec 5W20. The Valvoline ran a bit sticky in the Subaru until a little Maggie went in on top, then the engine ran super smooth. Just a Casual - though professional - observation :)

As far as Europe and Asia and So America vs. NO. America, the ECU programming on VVTi engine will vary with the
oil choice ( KV100) and in open loop where the cams can Advance and Retard many degrees, there is no precise hydraulic control other than the anticipate KV 100 viscosity range.
More viscous oil = higher line/drill pressures will equal more intake cam retard at any given rpm which will push the VE upwards in RPM possibly out of operating range and make the engine feel sluggish and have deleterious and cascading effect on other control systems like ECAT programming, EGR (if external), emission and heat loading, K sense, etc. In other words you don't want to go there on your DD except in special circumstances like High RPM ( 4500+) high load running ( Read "fast and furious" adventures)
Do you consider Redline 0w20 thin? Because I have a 2014 Crosstrek, i find my car runs smoother and less noise compare to Running Motul eco-lite 0w20. I haven't use OEM oil in a long time so I can't to it by memory.
 

ChrisD46

Thread starter
Messages
3,100
Location
GA.
Hey, that's my experimental frankenbrew gone ... RIGHT !

I am collecting royalties on this formula from here on out .

:giggle:
*Check is in the mail ARCOgraphite ! ... Full transparency - I stole this idea from you except I am starting out with 1/2 qrt. of Magnatec added and will then use Magnatec to top off oil ... Straight Magnatec was a bit "gooey" during the drain the first time I used it for a full fill , so dialing it back to use in a Frank's Brew seems ideal !
 
Messages
25
Location
Oklahoma
I’ve seen and heard of people moving up a grade but this was way beyond that.

I am old fashioned. If the engine is running quiet and smooth then I am satisfied. As the Mazda is my first engine to run 0w20 I have stick with that and I find it to be quiet and smooth. So I don’t see the need to change anything.

Older car engines that tended to burn oil later in life improved somewhat with a jump in grade but leapfrogging to a 20w50 is extreme. Generally, moving from a 30 to a 40 grade was enough. The best solution of course was to get the engine fixed. I am speaking of the old V8s.
And my 96 f150 4.9l lol. In 1,000 more miles its getting some napa 10w40
 
Messages
115
Location
Northern VA
All this stuff is way too easy to overthink IMO, although one would argue we're all guilty of it since we're on BITOG to begin with.

Right now Kirkland 0W20 (aka Warren, sames as SuperTech and others), at $54 delivered for 20 qts is what my Toyota and Honda get.

All of this "oil change at 1000 miles" or whatever is such 70's thinking I am surprised those doing it aren't arguing the merits of SA grade straight-30 oil.
 
Messages
7,505
Location
North America
You could even just use 5W30 in it if you don't wish to stock multiple grades, Toyota isn't very peculiar about oil viscosity, the only requirement in the manual is ILSAC GF-5 Multigrade, so you can run pretty much anything from 0w-20 to 10w-30. The manual even recommend that you use a higher viscosity oil if the car is operated under heavy loading or at high speeds.
This. Your choices of 20 are fine also. Enjoy the new ride!
 
Messages
27,485
Location
PNW
So if other countries allow 5w30 in 2017 camry, toyota is using wider oil ports there? Or they dont care about their engines failing outside US? Whats the logic here?
They tear 'em down at the import docks and hog out all the oil ports with a dremel. 😂

AM needs to go read about PD oil pumps. 🤓
 
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Messages
21
Location
Texas
Thanks for the replies to date ... I have my pick of good 0W20 synthetic oils at WM so I'll pick one for the new suburban grocery getter and ride to work on surface roads which is the majority of action this car will see thus a 6 month / 5K mile max OCI . My main reason for running 5W30 is my other vehicle has a Hyundai 2.4L DI engine which research indicates may do better with oil film strength on the rod bearings than the 5W20 recommended . Previously I ran M1 0W20 AFE in an Elantra and it ran very smooth . I imagine even in the US Georgia summer heat the synthetic 0W20 should still be ok in the Corolla .
Huyndai engine I life is more a function of whether it was one of the unlucky ones that had manufacturing debris left in the crankshaft passages than by viscosity. :-/
 
Messages
1,055
Location
New York
Agreed, we can also probably agree that Toyota or others do not make different engines for Mexico with thicker oil channels. 5-30 and 0-20 are virtually identical, in fact at certain operating temperatures their viscosities overlap

They don't have different oil channels. They just have to bow to market availability. I would wager that the engine failure rate is far higher in Mexico though this isn't directly related to oil viscosity. I'm not familiar with all of the intricacies of Mexican climate but am guessing they rarely see freezing temps anywhere and the climate is subtropical. So they have to worry a lot less about startup wear from acidic compounds as a by product of the combustion engine on a cold day...

In any case I'll take a 0W-20 using (mostly) GTL or POA combined with ester than whatever 5W-30 is offered up in the great republic of Mexico.

I also recall Japan being the gold "thicker oil" standard with comparisons up until less than a decade ago when they went ever thinner than the US...
 
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