05 Honda Odyssey and Kreen

[BobThe]

So after doing a bunch of reading about some of the Honda 3.5 liter V-6's sludging up or varnishing on Soccer Mom's driving, I looked at ours and it was varnished up pretty good.

I then started doing 3k OCI using Castrol Edge and changed the PCV valve and I am certain I have stopped anything new from forming in its tracks.

Now what I want to do is to completely get the varnish out so I ordered up two quarts of Kreen. The Oddy calls for 5w-20 so when I get ready to use Kreen, should I go up to a 5W-30 for that (shortened to 1k or 2k) OCI?

 

[SteveSRT8]

I followed this and got great results: add Kreen per label to clean oil and new filter, ran for about 500 miles, changed filter only, added make up oil.

Kreen is extremely volatile and will quickly vaporize through the PCV (cleaning it too!).

Great stuff, works quickly, did amazing things for us in OLD fleet trucks with high miles.

 

[Trav]

Yes i would go with 5w-30 or even 10w30 in summer.
No problem the 5w-20 is only spec'd in the U.S, the engine is spece'd for 5w-30 or 10w-30 in the rest of the world (no CAFE).

Be aware the one i did looked like just a varnish issue until i pulled it apart then i found real deposits that nothing in a can could clean.

Pm sent.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: BobThe
I looked at ours and it was varnished up pretty good.


What do you mean when you say you 'looked' at it and determined it was varnished up? Did you take the cam covers off? I'm not challenging your assessment, just looking for more information. When I look into the oil fill hole on our '05 Acura with the same engine, it looks pretty dadgum clean (though our trips are rarely soccer-mom short).

It wasn't dirty at all when we got it in November with 58k miles, but we've put on close to 12,000 miles in 7 months and I'm doing 5k mile OCIs with either 5W-20 or 0W-20. Have used both. Have 4 quarts of 0W-20 QSUD to put in next weekend (plus a half quart of M1 0W-20 left over from last time).

 

[SuperDave456]

The problem with mini vans in general is that you place a small engine in a small space in a vehicle that has the aerodynamics of a brick. There are many "cross overs" that are brick shaped and slightly smaller than a van, I wonder about them too.

As a matter of fact I wonder about all the cramped engine compartments that take a PHD to disassemble and Auto Manufacturers recommending synthetics because of the lack of air flow the engines receive.

I grew up with a mini van, and I love them. Ugly as heck, but HOLY TOLEDO are they versatile!

I don't have kids yet, but when my wife and I do I won't mind getting a van. Now that I think of it I will probably add an aftermarket transmission cooler on it too, as there isn't much air flow in those cramped engine bays and I imagine that will suffer from the conditions also.

As with any used car, I'd treat it like it has sludge and start running Rotalla T5 10w30 HDEO, or just get a few quick OCI's in before you start adding chemicals to loosen stuff up.

You would rather go too slow than too fast when you suspect that there is a sludge issue.

BTW, I get excited about Mini vans. I find that they are more practical than Trucks just because of their family moving capabilities and their lack of fuel consumption.

Keep us informed as to your progress!

 

[Sunnyinhollister]

The only varnish that our 2005 Pilot had was a little discoloration on the valve cover itself. The head and valve springs were spotless as seen through the valve cover. I did use synthetic and normally changed it at 5k or 6 months. I also used 5W30 most of the time since that is what my truck used at the time.

 

[BobThe]

Just that, I look down the fill hole with a flashlight. With that you can see the last lifter and spring as well as the top of the head and most of what I can see has a yellow tinge to it. It's not brown, but it's not silver either. I have not removed the cam covers. The PCV was pretty crusty when I replaced it.

During the school year when its cold here in Indiana, my wife drops the kids at the bus stop at the end of the street and works a half a city block away from the house. It stays in the garage at home, but still... Over the weekend it gets warmed up with all of us in it, but during the week it goes maybe 2-3 miles each trip and runs for maybe 10 minutes. Not good for it at all. Over the Summer, it get nice and warm. It just finished a 1600 mile trip.

The OLM didn't seem to adjust for that type of driving very well and I made the mistake of following it until I started reading more about this type of driving with this (or probably any) motor.

 

[Quest]

Haven't we seen enough quickies joining in, crying: "I got sludge! I got sludge! wanna rinse it off with xxxx..." w/o evening removing their valve cover/oil pan?

I'd go with Hokiefyd's remarks on this.

Q.

 

[electrolover]

BOB welcome to bobistheoilguy. i strongly recommend you to take travs advise. hes very knowledgeable about this stuff! he helped me out alot with my varnish issues.

if i were you after all the Kreening is over i would run Ultra in that thing with 5k ocis so you never have to worry about this again

GOOD LUCK AND KEEP US POSTED!

by the way we love before and after pics!

 

[BobThe]

Don't worry, I am not offended by your reply with the "Quickies or Crying" comment. It's not as though I haven't been looking in to this for some time by the way and identifying a solution, just looking to see if I should go to 5W-30 when I add the cleaner. I am sorry Quest if you thought I was crying for a quick fix. I am simply following what others here who know more than I do have done to fix this same problem with the same engine with the same driving type.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Quest
Haven't we seen enough quickies joining in, crying: "I got sludge! I got sludge! wanna rinse it off with xxxx..." w/o evening removing their valve cover/oil pan?

I'd go with Hokiefyd's remarks on this.

Q.



well thats a nice welcome!! if the man wants to run kreen its his biz, even if it aint sludged, it wont hurt a thing!

i think Trav has proven varnish can really be harmful to these engines. so my opinion is better safe than sorry

 

[BobThe]

You're right, Trav has been very helpful and it was his post on the Ody with the 3.5 is what got me looking in to this in the first place. It also got me pointed at Kreen.

I don' think the motor is in bad shape at all, I just want to make sure its clean and keep it from coming back with a watchful eye.

I very much appreciate the help.

 

[chubbs1]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
BOB welcome to bobistheoilguy. i strongly recommend you to take travs advise. hes very knowledgeable about this stuff! he helped me out alot with my varnish issues.

if i were you after all the Kreening is over i would run Ultra in that thing with 5k ocis so you never have to worry about this again

GOOD LUCK AND KEEP US POSTED!

by the way we love before and after pics!


+1 Trav knows about this stuff and I would trust his judgment.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: BobThe
Don't worry, I am not offended by your reply with the "Quickies or Crying" comment. It's not as though I haven't been looking in to this for some time by the way and identifying a solution, just looking to see if I should go to 5W-30 when I add the cleaner. I am sorry Quest if you thought I was crying for a quick fix. I am simply following what others here who know more than I do have done to fix this same problem with the same engine with the same driving type.


dont apologize dude, you did nothin wrong. 5/30 would be a good idea! the kreen will thin it out some and you dont need to be running a 10w in the summer. if it were mine i would stick to 5 or 0/30! this cafe stuff is communist propaganda

 

[hate2work]

Bob, pay no attention to Q, somedays he wears his pants backwards and that makes him cranky!!

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: hate2work

Bob, pay no attention to Q, somedays he wears his pants backwards and that makes him cranky!!

LOL! I missed my coffee these days and I saw my budt crack at dawn this morning..(really!)

Regardless, welcome Bob.

Q.

 

[Hokiefyd]

It doesn't sound to me like the engine is in bad shape at all. I'm not sure you can expect a "silver color" on anything with any kind of miles on it. My newer CR-V, with fewer miles and a completely different type of engine, also has a tan/gold tint on everything under the cam cover. Nothing is crusty, and there's no depth to it. It's just the color of engine parts after so long.

Any way you can get a picture of what you're seeing? It sounds like it's within the boundaries of "reasonable clean" to me, but I'm also not seeing what you're seeing.

These are larger vehicles, but the engine is up to the task at hand. 3.5 litres is about average for a V-6 engine, and the Honda 3.5L doesn't seem to me to be working all that terribly hard in these vehicles. And mine's even heavier and with likely worse aerodynamics than an Odyssey.

If I'm not mistaken, the example Trav brough forth earlier was with a VCM-equipped engine, and there are other examples of VCM-equipped 3.5L engines developing a sensitivity to this kind of thing. I'm not sure it's across the board on all of Honda's J-series engines. To the original poster, does yours have Variable Cylinder Management?

 

[Hokiefyd]

In addition to my post above, I'm not understanding the general advice to go up one viscosity grade. It's always been my understanding, and maybe I'm wrong, that thicker oils tend to take longer to fully warm. If there are potential oil temperature issues here in this case, how does a thicker oil help?

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
In addition to my post above, I'm not understanding the general advice to go up one viscosity grade. It's always been my understanding, and maybe I'm wrong, that thicker oils tend to take longer to fully warm. If there are potential oil temperature issues here in this case, how does a thicker oil help?


kreen is a solvent so it will drop viscosity. if you up it to a 5/30 it will not be in danger of being too thin.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
In addition to my post above, I'm not understanding the general advice to go up one viscosity grade. It's always been my understanding, and maybe I'm wrong, that thicker oils tend to take longer to fully warm. If there are potential oil temperature issues here in this case, how does a thicker oil help?


kreen is a solvent so it will drop viscosity. if you up it to a 5/30 it will not be in danger of being too thin.



Okay, thanks for that explanation.