0-65 mph within 90 seconds of cold start?

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BITOG'ers.

As the weather continues to grow more cold here in NEOhio, a thought occurred to me today as I left work...

My commute home from work each day goes something like this:

Start Car. Fasten seatbelt. Drive out of the parking lot. Stop at the stop sign. Begin to accelerate up a fairly steep and long on-ramp and merge into traffic at 65-70 MPH. Pretty much 0 to 65 within 90 seconds of a cold start.

Obviously, I rev the engine as little as possible when cold, keeping it under 3k RPMs. Even so, there is a decent load on the engine as I push it up the on-ramp accelerating to 65MPH, shifting around 3k in each gear.

Does anyone think there is harm to be caused by this type of commute?? Avg winter temps around here are between 15-25 *F by the time I leave work in the dead of winter, so the engine is COLD. How much, if any, harm do you think it causes by making this commute? What could I do to reduce the harm this causes? (Block heater isn't an option, the parking lot isn't "wired")

Of course, a UOA would be the easiest and most definitive way to answer this question. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of an AutoRx rinse cycle on this motor, and wouldn't really trust the results just yet. And...I thought it would be kind of fun to solicit the opinion of those on the forum. Why not generate some healthy discussion!?

Vehicle is a '97 BMW 318i (M44). Current oil is Castrol conventional 10w-40 (because that was on sale when I started the AutoRx cycle). Next oil will be M1 0w-40 (because I have 6qts left that I won't use). By spring I'll have converted to Rotella T6 (because that's what I'll use in my wife's PD powered Jetta TDI).

Open to any thoughts or opinions. I might do a UOA on the M1 fill; but no data until then.

Thanks!
Matt
 
Just don't lug it in your pursuit of "saving" it. How about entering the right lane at 55 and making the guys behind you pass, then warm up at 55 for a couple minutes? No shame in it. Then if you have to nail it for an 18 wheeler occasionally you'll still come out ahead.
 
I've been doing the same (though I don't run a 10w oil since the mid 90s when 5w-x oil came out) as you for years. No issues with any vehicle I've driven. My current is a 05 Corolla 5sp and its 3k shifts and 2800 rpm till I get the coolant up to normal then up to 3k.

I wish 15f-25k were as low as I see. Last week single digits with one night below zero. Just takes a little longer to get warmed up.

Just drive it like you are and I think you'll be fine. You may want to look into a 5w-40 oil for the BMW...

Save the $$ on the UOA for something like the T6 IMO.

Take care, bill
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Just don't lug it in your pursuit of "saving" it. How about entering the right lane at 55 and making the guys behind you pass, then warm up at 55 for a couple minutes? No shame in it. Then if you have to nail it for an 18 wheeler occasionally you'll still come out ahead.


+1; I have the "luxury" of a 2 mile warmup stretch on a level 40 mph road before I hit the highway. When on, I run 50-55mph for a few miles; I figure no rush getting to work....
 
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You may have the perfect warmup for your car. I don't see a problem, even if you have to accelerate moderate (keeping within 3/4 RPM of redline.. etc using 3/4 of your rpm range... even redline if you have to) I have read, and also think a moderate load put on an engine during warmup time is far better than lugging, trying to baby everything...

Exactly what could cause anymore wear with a warmup like the OP verses a long slow warmup ? A couple of things your going to burn so much fuel to gain warmup, and doing so this will equal close to the same revolutions by the engine. transmission etc.. You could factor in for the efficiency loss at different speeds, rpm etc.

So in my opinion, and I have also read manufactures as well noted it being better for a load on the engine during warmup

edit to add, I had a 97 accord that I put around 270k on.. And merged onto interstate traffic with a short drive to the on ramp.. most of the time redline to speeds of 80 mph or so twice each day.. I will say the to work trip had a longer warmup time, but the onramp coming home from work is awful, when you approach the two lane you better be doing 70 mph, and to merge into traffic 80 mph may get you a spot in one of the highest fatality stretches of interstate road in the united states the last time I read..
 
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
How about entering the right lane at 55 and making the guys behind you pass, then warm up at 55 for a couple minutes? No shame in it.


No shame in it? Is there a HUGE different between 55 and 65 MPH?

Maybe driving faster/under more load will generate more heat therefore bringing the oil (and perhaps more importantly the engine itself) up to operating temp faster.

If you're going to go 55 in the right lane anywhere that isn't a 55 MPH speed limit because your engine isn't up to operating temp why don't you just idle your lump in the parking lot until it's up to temperature?
 
There is no discussion needed, 90 seconds to full throttle will not hurt a modern engine. If you are worried about it, simply warm it up for a minute before you go. But I'd switch over to the 0W-40 sooner rather than later.
 
Originally Posted By: JRed
Originally Posted By: eljefino
How about entering the right lane at 55 and making the guys behind you pass, then warm up at 55 for a couple minutes? No shame in it.


No shame in it? Is there a HUGE different between 55 and 65 MPH?

Maybe driving faster/under more load will generate more heat therefore bringing the oil (and perhaps more importantly the engine itself) up to operating temp faster.

If you're going to go 55 in the right lane anywhere that isn't a 55 MPH speed limit because your engine isn't up to operating temp why don't you just idle your lump in the parking lot until it's up to temperature?


You know, it's a *limit*, you don't have to do it, and the right lane is where to go 55 if you want.

You only lose about twenty seconds of your life going 55 for two minutes compared to 65. Idling for two minutes, you lose two minutes.

Warming up super fast stresses head gaskets etc with unequal thermal expansion.
 
It's a machine, engineered to be worked; use it as intended.

I do it all the time here in WV winters just before I jump on I70 towards Pitt.

Did it all the time back in NJ during the winter months when I jumped on 295 or the turnpike.

And will be doing it in subfreezing weather up north when we move to WI next winter.

Have a full synthetic in there and a filter with a nice silicone ADBV and sleep well.
 
These two are with many 1 to 2 minute times from startup to 70 MPH (short ramp, semis) so it's with gusto. Half of each interval was Indiana winters from 0F to 30F.

Previous UOAs were mostly long highway driving.

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"Warming up super fast stresses head gaskets etc with unequal thermal expansion."

There will always be "unequal thermal expansion " between the engine, head gasket, and head !! That is one reason for the use of a gasket, heads are many times aluminum while the block is cast iron, the head is made to shed heat with water jackets etc, and combined with a high percentage of the combustion taking place in the head/chamber are this area will always have unequal thermal expansion..

I have never seen any proof of a slow warm up compared to driving normal within 1 minute after cold start !! or even less time than that being in better for the engine, or any less wear either way.. A certain amount of fuel will be burned to achieve warmup, and all things equal (temp etc) the revolutions from a slow warmup compared to normal driving will be very close to the same, with the normal driving/load on engine achieving warmup a bit sooner.
 
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Originally Posted By: Matt_N
BITOG'ers.

As the weather continues to grow more cold here in NEOhio, a thought occurred to me today as I left work...

My commute home from work each day goes something like this:

Start Car. Fasten seatbelt. Drive out of the parking lot. Stop at the stop sign. Begin to accelerate up a fairly steep and long on-ramp and merge into traffic at 65-70 MPH. Pretty much 0 to 65 within 90 seconds of a cold start.

... Avg winter temps around here are between 15-25 *F by the time I leave work in the dead of winter, so the engine is COLD.

Open to any thoughts or opinions. I might do a UOA on the M1 fill; but no data until then.

Thanks!
Matt




I can't say whether you are doing damage to your engine or not. If you don't bury the accelerator pedal into the floorboard to get up to speed, I don't think you will damage your engine. My start-up procedure in warmer weather is similar to yours. If the temp is below 30*F or I see frost on my windshield, I will let the engine warm up for at least 1 minute. If I am up in the mountains and it is very cold <15*F, I will let the engine warm up for about 3 minutes. My personal thoughts is that I don't think everything in the engine is fully coated with oil a few seconds after starting the engine. I also want the engine and exhaust to warm up other things under the hood that might have got frozen or stuck. If moister froze my smog air pump check valve, or if frost is on the catalytic converter plates, I don't the pressure from high revs to blow anything apart. The electric solenoids also have a chance to warm up.
 
Originally Posted By: Matt_N

Does anyone think there is harm to be caused by this type of commute??


I posted the following a while back:

Anecdotal evidence: A guy I work with has one of those "Harley Davidson" Ford 150's. Leaving the parking lot at 5 AM (we work nights), after only 15 seconds since starting, he FLOORS IT until he reaches 90 mph or so. Every day. He then backs off for a few stoplights, then FLOORS IT again until getting up on the interstate.

He has done this for 5 years that I know of. I asked what engine work he has had done (without mentioning his acceleration habits), and he said "nothing" with a straight look on his face.

I would have guessed it would have blown by now, but it hasn't.


Based on that, what you are doing is HARMLESS. Drive on!
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Engines warm up far faster under load. The only thing that "worries" me a tiny bit is that you mention it's uphill. Accelerating to 65mph on a decent length level onramp with revs under 3k is not that big a deal at all - you're aware that you shouldn't beat on the mechanicals until there's some heat in them and by understanding that you're ahead of most people around you.

As the weather gets cold I, personally, would be more comfortable in that situation if I could drive 2-3 minutes down the road to the next onramp. I was in exactly this position about 13 years ago - Integra 1.8L, parking lot right beside the elevated highway, turn right out of the lot and up the ramp. I did just what I said - took the next onramp 1-2 minutes away and didn't blast up the ramp as a source of entertainment as I normally would when things are warmed up. Well, as entertaining as 1.8L accelerating uphill can be
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I think you'll be OK - don't lug it, don't go WOT (emergencies excepted), and keep the revs reasonable (3000-3500, emergencies excepted) and I think you're doing just fine. I know that on that small engine I found the warmup VERY quick with that routine. The run up to highway speed was very effective for fast warmup.
 
Originally Posted By: Loobed
If I am up in the mountains and it is very cold


I don't know why everyone says this.

Just last summer I had my BMW parked for a couple of days and then went disassembling the valvetrain to replace/upgrade a variable valve timing seal. There was oil everywhere. Every surface was coated with a very thin, invisible, but very slippery coating of oil.

Why does everyone think all the oil disappears and everything dries out because the car has been off while you were at the office? At the time the oil in question was Rotella T. When I used to do valve clearance adjustments on my Integra which was running M1 5W30, I can also assure you that oil was everywhere.

I drive sensibly when my car is cold for a variety of reasons (expansion, fit, thermal gradients), but thinking the parts are "dry" isn't one of them.
 
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Tell any reasonable suggestion to a woman about warm-ups. It goes to deaf ears.

Start and smash the pedal.
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I don't think there is much of an issue, as long as the pedal isn't mashed to the floor. I would however idle the engine at least until it comes off its fast idle and settles in at around 1000 rpms before I took off.

Now if you believe that engine pistons and bores [I forget the exact terminology] are out of round when cold and oil doesn't really protect until it reaches operating temps then that kind of driving is harmful to an engine.
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I would however idle the engine at least until it comes off its fast idle and settles in at around 1000 rpms before I took off.


If I waited till the RPM went down to 1000 RPM before putting it into gear and going I'd be idling for over 10 minutes when its cold. My cold start-up idle is close to 2000 RPM and even after driving it for 2-3 minutes the idle is still close to 1600.

The high idle comes off when the water temp is around 180 degrees which at idling takes about 15 minutes when its single digits. I get 180 degrees with driving it in about 6-8 minutes. (This was one of my Daughters Science projects a few years ago)

Bill
 
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