-------------------------------------------------
Definitely, I think most vechicles of whatever make, eventually gets this. IMHO
Ronnie
Toyota V6 Sludge Prevention/Maintenance
- Thread starter TomMN
- Start date
- Status
Definitely, I think most vechicles of whatever make, eventually gets this. IMHO
Ronnie
This is exactly right. Look at the low incidence of these sludge problems vs. GM intake leaks and piston slap, Chrysler auto transmission problems, etc. Toyota vehicles on the whole are still more reliable than just about anything and the overall repair stats show this...
If you search the Internet you can find truly disgusting photos of Honda/Acura DOHC engines sludged up. The Dodge Dakota/Durango has at least one engine option that is a sludger, and there is a BMW engine that has problems with this as well.
{Search and ye shall find}
I think this is/was a design flaw probably compounded by things like tight engine bays, stop and go driving and lax maint. by the owner. Combine this with puny sump capacities and the OCIs listed in most manuals today are crazy if you are running conventional oil IMHO.
I can't think of a circumstance in which I'd ever run a dino oil 7500 miles. I know Bob has done it and his points about the additive package being the key are probably true but I just won't risk my engines doing this.
Engines are expensive, oil and filters are cheap no matter which brands you use.
{Search and ye shall find}
I think this is/was a design flaw probably compounded by things like tight engine bays, stop and go driving and lax maint. by the owner. Combine this with puny sump capacities and the OCIs listed in most manuals today are crazy if you are running conventional oil IMHO.
I can't think of a circumstance in which I'd ever run a dino oil 7500 miles. I know Bob has done it and his points about the additive package being the key are probably true but I just won't risk my engines doing this.
Engines are expensive, oil and filters are cheap no matter which brands you use.
This topic seem to come up every 6 months or so... You all can search back and read earlier discussions, including some with Bob...this was a hot topic when this new site started up...
I have a 2002 Sienna with 36700 miles. Still haven't pulled the valve cover...but I check under the oil fill by "fishing" my dipstick (gently) thru the fill opening; it comes back with nice oil, and no sign of anything gellish or different than healthy oil. I've used Chevron Supreme (5W-30 winters, 10W-30 summers) with about 2000-mile change intervals (I use each filter for 2 intervals); and Mobil-1 10W-30 on long trips. While the 2000-mile interval is short, it fits nicely into my schedule, with the change-out monthly...
There is a nice UOA report also, with insights by Terry; the oil was Redline 5W-30, with a 5000-mile interval.
PCV valve: changed mine out at 13,000 to be very safe. The second valve still clicks nicely.
Fuel: here's another can of worms, but this engine was designed for 91 octane...while 87 runs fine...
Good luck to everyone else with this engine! It's very smooth, quiet, fuel efficient, and powerful.
I have a 2002 Sienna with 36700 miles. Still haven't pulled the valve cover...but I check under the oil fill by "fishing" my dipstick (gently) thru the fill opening; it comes back with nice oil, and no sign of anything gellish or different than healthy oil. I've used Chevron Supreme (5W-30 winters, 10W-30 summers) with about 2000-mile change intervals (I use each filter for 2 intervals); and Mobil-1 10W-30 on long trips. While the 2000-mile interval is short, it fits nicely into my schedule, with the change-out monthly...
There is a nice UOA report also, with insights by Terry; the oil was Redline 5W-30, with a 5000-mile interval.
PCV valve: changed mine out at 13,000 to be very safe. The second valve still clicks nicely.
Fuel: here's another can of worms, but this engine was designed for 91 octane...while 87 runs fine...
Good luck to everyone else with this engine! It's very smooth, quiet, fuel efficient, and powerful.
The last time I looked Toyota has produced 3.3 MILLION sludge prone engines.
What's affected.
These are the vehicles equipped with 1MZ V-6 and 5SFE inline-4 engines produced between July 1996 and July 2001:
Camry, built August 1996 to July 2001
Camry Solara, built June 1998 to May 2001
Sienna, built July 1997 to May 2001
Avalon, built July 1996 to May 2001
Celica, 4-cylinder, built August 1996 to April 1999
Highlander, built November 2000 to July 2001
Lexus ES 300, built August 1998 to July 2001
Lexus RX 300, built January 1998 to July 2001
Read more here.
[ November 22, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: vad ]
GSV, I agree. I own a 2003 4cyl Camry. The sump is insanely small. It only hold 3.6 quarts of oil with a filter change! With this small of an oil sump I will probably never run conventional oil in it unless the OCI is really short like 3000 miles or less! The car does not even have an oil cooler. Mind you this is a high reving engine with a very high power output. It carrys my family of five ( tow adults and three boys).
This nsmall sump trend for packageing is really getting out of control.
This nsmall sump trend for packageing is really getting out of control.
vad,
I read this article in the past, and what confused me was while it lists the affected engines as only going up to July 2001, there was no indication of any change to the design of the engine until March 2002 (since this article was written April 2002):
So I'm assuming it really affects all V6 3.0L 1MZ-FE engine up through 2003, with Toyota now using a V6 3.3L engine.
I read this article in the past, and what confused me was while it lists the affected engines as only going up to July 2001, there was no indication of any change to the design of the engine until March 2002 (since this article was written April 2002):
But even that change doesn't really help prevent sludge according to an independent Toyota mechanic in the article.
So I'm assuming it really affects all V6 3.0L 1MZ-FE engine up through 2003, with Toyota now using a V6 3.3L engine.
Maintain your vehicle and you won't get sludge! If you drive and forget it you will have problems.
Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, Impulse Red, Peppy 2.7 Liter 4 Banger, Running Mobil1 Synthetics SS 5W-30.
ODO 5800 Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner, Evergreen, 3.0 V6, Running Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30.
ODO 82000 Miles. (Switching to GC next)Nope sticking with M1.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer
Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, Impulse Red, Peppy 2.7 Liter 4 Banger, Running Mobil1 Synthetics SS 5W-30.
ODO 5800 Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner, Evergreen, 3.0 V6, Running Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30.
ODO 82000 Miles. (Switching to GC next)Nope sticking with M1.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer
AFAIK, they never admitted there was a problem. It'd be pretty foolish of them to do so. Toyota changed their stance on repairing/replacing sludged engines because they received too much bad press. If some of those disgruntled Toyota owners weren't savvy enough to get their stories into major publications and get the ball rolling, Toyota would've probably never been so generous with their extended warranty and repair offers.
I've recently swapped in the 1MZ into my celica. The engine had 37,000 miles on it before I dropped it in and at that time, the valve train looked brand new:
I have about 5-7,000 miles on the engine and at the end of my 2nd oil change with M1 5w-30. I have purchased an oil cooler for when I track the car and will end up pulling the valve covers when I get to about 60,000 miles to see how everything is doing and probably adjust the valves at that time.
Also, this quote from Autonews looked interesting:
The heads only have one drainback which I though was odd and meant that oil from the far side of the engine had to travel a good bit before it goes back down to the sump leaving it too many chances to pool in the hot head.
I would imagine the main problem with the Sienna versus the other 1MZ powered vehicles is that most owners in these vehicles are just putzing around town and the oil doesnt have time to heat up properly. All that stop & go driving is killing the engine. To the owners defense though, this should have been assumed by Toyota and the engine should have been designed to handle crappy driving better.
Lastly, either they made a large change in the 5SFE 2.2L engine later in its life or newer owners are idiots because the 5SFE is one of the most reliable Toyota 4 cyl engines(almost as good as the 22RE) ever made. Many camrys and celicas will go +250,000 miles without ever being opened.
Regarding the politics of it: I say that its not a major issue for Toyota but that its a good thing that they are now taking care of it on a large scale. This is much better than denying there is a problem just to preserve their image despite the fact that it might make them look bad. Autonews claimed 100 reports were filed with the NHTSA where Toyota denied them the free service. 100? Thats it?!? Out of a supposed 3.3 million owners? Thats only 0.003%. Even if you look at the 3,400 reported complaints, thats still only 0.1% of the engines produced had a repair reported. Even if TWICE that many people had problems and didnt report it to toyota, thats only 0.2%.
[ November 24, 2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: CelicaGT6 ]
I have about 5-7,000 miles on the engine and at the end of my 2nd oil change with M1 5w-30. I have purchased an oil cooler for when I track the car and will end up pulling the valve covers when I get to about 60,000 miles to see how everything is doing and probably adjust the valves at that time.
Also, this quote from Autonews looked interesting:
Im thinking they shaved off this raised area near the drain:
The heads only have one drainback which I though was odd and meant that oil from the far side of the engine had to travel a good bit before it goes back down to the sump leaving it too many chances to pool in the hot head.
I would imagine the main problem with the Sienna versus the other 1MZ powered vehicles is that most owners in these vehicles are just putzing around town and the oil doesnt have time to heat up properly. All that stop & go driving is killing the engine. To the owners defense though, this should have been assumed by Toyota and the engine should have been designed to handle crappy driving better.
Lastly, either they made a large change in the 5SFE 2.2L engine later in its life or newer owners are idiots because the 5SFE is one of the most reliable Toyota 4 cyl engines(almost as good as the 22RE) ever made. Many camrys and celicas will go +250,000 miles without ever being opened.
Regarding the politics of it: I say that its not a major issue for Toyota but that its a good thing that they are now taking care of it on a large scale. This is much better than denying there is a problem just to preserve their image despite the fact that it might make them look bad. Autonews claimed 100 reports were filed with the NHTSA where Toyota denied them the free service. 100? Thats it?!? Out of a supposed 3.3 million owners? Thats only 0.003%. Even if you look at the 3,400 reported complaints, thats still only 0.1% of the engines produced had a repair reported. Even if TWICE that many people had problems and didnt report it to toyota, thats only 0.2%.
[ November 24, 2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: CelicaGT6 ]
Amkeer:
Those of us with the sludge prone Toyota engines understand your advice: Take care of your car and you will not have sludge. A well cared for car eliminates the problem.
BUT, here is the problem with that reasoning. My Camry is over five years old. Toyota told me I only needed to change the oil every 7500 miles. Now, they are recommending a lot shorter oil change, but that recommendation is five years too late for me. (Incidently, I have never received anything from Toyota on this issue, nor has the dealer ever mentioned it to me. Everything I have seen about the shorter oil change has been from reading).
Before this car, the longest recommended oil change on a car I owned was 3750 miles. Therefore I was not comfortable with Toyotas recmmendation of 7500 miles. So, my solution was to change every 5000 miles, which I have done faithfully. I am cutting that down to 4000 miles and switching to synthetic.
I have done more than Toyota recommended. I get a little defensive when I read your comments that at least imply the fault may be owner neglect. This is strictly a Toyota caused problem that they have yet to address.
Incidently, I do not know of anyone who got the letter Toyota claims to have sent out to all owners. As of this date, I have not received anything from them indicating I should have more frequent oil changes, or that there is any problem with the engines. And yes, I definately have one of the sludge prone engines.
I don't want to provoke a fight. I just want to present the other side of the story.
Those of us with the sludge prone Toyota engines understand your advice: Take care of your car and you will not have sludge. A well cared for car eliminates the problem.
BUT, here is the problem with that reasoning. My Camry is over five years old. Toyota told me I only needed to change the oil every 7500 miles. Now, they are recommending a lot shorter oil change, but that recommendation is five years too late for me. (Incidently, I have never received anything from Toyota on this issue, nor has the dealer ever mentioned it to me. Everything I have seen about the shorter oil change has been from reading).
Before this car, the longest recommended oil change on a car I owned was 3750 miles. Therefore I was not comfortable with Toyotas recmmendation of 7500 miles. So, my solution was to change every 5000 miles, which I have done faithfully. I am cutting that down to 4000 miles and switching to synthetic.
I have done more than Toyota recommended. I get a little defensive when I read your comments that at least imply the fault may be owner neglect. This is strictly a Toyota caused problem that they have yet to address.
Incidently, I do not know of anyone who got the letter Toyota claims to have sent out to all owners. As of this date, I have not received anything from them indicating I should have more frequent oil changes, or that there is any problem with the engines. And yes, I definately have one of the sludge prone engines.
I don't want to provoke a fight. I just want to present the other side of the story.
The letter stated they were offering extended warranties on the engine, and that they would repair any sludged engine free of charge as long as the owner showed proof of an oil change at least once a year. No fault was admitted...it was a "customer satisfaction" initiative.
Good pictures! As a rookie here I'm easily impressed.
As I've mentioned in other threads, my new (to me) '98 Camry is checking out ok right now (had the valve cover removed). But I bought the car so that powerful engine could pull a fifteen-hundred-pound pop-up camper around. We won't be crossing the country, but maybe some thousand mile trips over the Appalachian mountains, a time or two a year, and quite a few trips per year in-state (Ohio). How much will this raise my risk of sludging, and how might I alter my maintainence and prevention other than the obvious--oil change before and after the trips?
As I've mentioned in other threads, my new (to me) '98 Camry is checking out ok right now (had the valve cover removed). But I bought the car so that powerful engine could pull a fifteen-hundred-pound pop-up camper around. We won't be crossing the country, but maybe some thousand mile trips over the Appalachian mountains, a time or two a year, and quite a few trips per year in-state (Ohio). How much will this raise my risk of sludging, and how might I alter my maintainence and prevention other than the obvious--oil change before and after the trips?
Thanks. I'm ordering up Redline 5W30 because I can get it for a good price and will be installing an oil cooler as well.quote:
Originally posted by Amkeer:
Celica, that motor looks brand new! Good post!
~Adrian
I got the letter.
My sister got the letter
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked