4WD
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Went back reading the War & Peace version of Rats World … wow 
What really makes an oil a good oil?
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4WD
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… and here is an example of “bold” thinking (updated site)
Originally Posted By: 4WD
… and here is an example of “bold” thinking (updated site)
What a load of nonsense.
Even if it was true the rest of the site does nothing to support the claims.
… and here is an example of “bold” thinking (updated site)
What a load of nonsense.
Even if it was true the rest of the site does nothing to support the claims.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Thinking the cars in your signature are darn good “test data” without any of this great wisdom he offers …
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Went back reading the War & Peace version of Rats World
It'll haunt us for a while yet. Every once in a while, a new member stumbles across it and thinks we haven't seen or, or decides we at BITOG are totally ignorant about the topic and someone else has made the breakthrough of the century, and has come to enlighten us.
Don't get me wrong. We'd all like a quick and easy answer. We're all hunting for things that aren't there. That's why many of us are here. We'd all love to have one oil for all applications that doesn't sap fuel economy or power, won't foul our cats, brings wear down to nothing, won't burn, won't leak out, won't leave deposits, lasts for 20,000 mile OCIs, starts unaided in -40, makes our engines sound like the symphony, all at $1 a quart at every corner store, and verified by one test, and will never be reformulated in perpetuity. Unfortunately, that's a long way from reality.
Went back reading the War & Peace version of Rats World
It'll haunt us for a while yet. Every once in a while, a new member stumbles across it and thinks we haven't seen or, or decides we at BITOG are totally ignorant about the topic and someone else has made the breakthrough of the century, and has come to enlighten us.
Don't get me wrong. We'd all like a quick and easy answer. We're all hunting for things that aren't there. That's why many of us are here. We'd all love to have one oil for all applications that doesn't sap fuel economy or power, won't foul our cats, brings wear down to nothing, won't burn, won't leak out, won't leave deposits, lasts for 20,000 mile OCIs, starts unaided in -40, makes our engines sound like the symphony, all at $1 a quart at every corner store, and verified by one test, and will never be reformulated in perpetuity. Unfortunately, that's a long way from reality.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Went back reading the War & Peace version of Rats World
It'll haunt us for a while yet. Every once in a while, a new member stumbles across it and thinks we haven't seen or, or decides we at BITOG are totally ignorant about the topic and someone else has made the breakthrough of the century, and has come to enlighten us.
Don't get me wrong. We'd all like a quick and easy answer. We're all hunting for things that aren't there. That's why many of us are here. We'd all love to have one oil for all applications that doesn't sap fuel economy or power, won't foul our cats, brings wear down to nothing, won't burn, won't leak out, won't leave deposits, lasts for 20,000 mile OCIs, starts unaided in -40, makes our engines sound like the symphony, all at $1 a quart at every corner store, and verified by one test, and will never be reformulated in perpetuity. Unfortunately, that's a long way from reality.
What about LSPI?
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Went back reading the War & Peace version of Rats World
It'll haunt us for a while yet. Every once in a while, a new member stumbles across it and thinks we haven't seen or, or decides we at BITOG are totally ignorant about the topic and someone else has made the breakthrough of the century, and has come to enlighten us.
Don't get me wrong. We'd all like a quick and easy answer. We're all hunting for things that aren't there. That's why many of us are here. We'd all love to have one oil for all applications that doesn't sap fuel economy or power, won't foul our cats, brings wear down to nothing, won't burn, won't leak out, won't leave deposits, lasts for 20,000 mile OCIs, starts unaided in -40, makes our engines sound like the symphony, all at $1 a quart at every corner store, and verified by one test, and will never be reformulated in perpetuity. Unfortunately, that's a long way from reality.
What about LSPI?
Keep the rpm up and you won't have lspi
Originally Posted By: Shannow
OK, typing slowly now.
What does Rat's test prove about engine oils ?
other than those oils protect RAT's test rig better (give or take a 20% margin of error) ?
OK, we've been over this a few times, but what the hey ...
RAT's test was to develop a sense of oil and additives (like Oil Extreme) that he could recommend to some race teams that were class bound to use flat tappet cams and they were/are running on the ragged edge of reliability (welcome to class racing). I have had many back and forth conversations with him at Chevelles.com regarding oils I wish he would test (JD 50+ & Chevron Delo400 SD), and got mostly nowhere ...
He is stuck in his mold and mindset and will not tolerate any outside comment. He's flame sensitive. Do I disbelieve his testing - no. It seems to have worked for his clients. Do I think it is absolute - no. It fits his narrow need.
His ego has let him expand it to the general audience and that's where it comes off the rails ...
OK, typing slowly now.
What does Rat's test prove about engine oils ?
other than those oils protect RAT's test rig better (give or take a 20% margin of error) ?
OK, we've been over this a few times, but what the hey ...
RAT's test was to develop a sense of oil and additives (like Oil Extreme) that he could recommend to some race teams that were class bound to use flat tappet cams and they were/are running on the ragged edge of reliability (welcome to class racing). I have had many back and forth conversations with him at Chevelles.com regarding oils I wish he would test (JD 50+ & Chevron Delo400 SD), and got mostly nowhere ...
He is stuck in his mold and mindset and will not tolerate any outside comment. He's flame sensitive. Do I disbelieve his testing - no. It seems to have worked for his clients. Do I think it is absolute - no. It fits his narrow need.
His ego has let him expand it to the general audience and that's where it comes off the rails ...
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: Shannow
OK, typing slowly now.
What does Rat's test prove about engine oils ?
other than those oils protect RAT's test rig better (give or take a 20% margin of error) ?
OK, we've been over this a few times, but what the hey ...
RAT's test was to develop a sense of oil and additives (like Oil Extreme) that he could recommend to some race teams that were class bound to use flat tappet cams and they were/are running on the ragged edge of reliability (welcome to class racing). I have had many back and forth conversations with him at Chevelles.com regarding oils I wish he would test (JD 50+ & Chevron Delo400 SD), and got mostly nowhere ...
He is stuck in his mold and mindset and will not tolerate any outside comment. He's flame sensitive. Do I disbelieve his testing - no. It seems to have worked for his clients. Do I think it is absolute - no. It fits his narrow need.
His ego has let him expand it to the general audience and that's where it comes off the rails ...
That is a very good analysis.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
OK, typing slowly now.
What does Rat's test prove about engine oils ?
other than those oils protect RAT's test rig better (give or take a 20% margin of error) ?
OK, we've been over this a few times, but what the hey ...
RAT's test was to develop a sense of oil and additives (like Oil Extreme) that he could recommend to some race teams that were class bound to use flat tappet cams and they were/are running on the ragged edge of reliability (welcome to class racing). I have had many back and forth conversations with him at Chevelles.com regarding oils I wish he would test (JD 50+ & Chevron Delo400 SD), and got mostly nowhere ...
He is stuck in his mold and mindset and will not tolerate any outside comment. He's flame sensitive. Do I disbelieve his testing - no. It seems to have worked for his clients. Do I think it is absolute - no. It fits his narrow need.
His ego has let him expand it to the general audience and that's where it comes off the rails ...
That is a very good analysis.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
RAT's test was to develop a sense of oil and additives (like Oil Extreme) that he could recommend to some race teams that were class bound to use flat tappet cams and they were/are running on the ragged edge of reliability (welcome to class racing). I have had many back and forth conversations with him at Chevelles.com regarding oils I wish he would test (JD 50+ & Chevron Delo400 SD), and got mostly nowhere ...
He is stuck in his mold and mindset and will not tolerate any outside comment. He's flame sensitive. Do I disbelieve his testing - no. It seems to have worked for his clients. Do I think it is absolute - no. It fits his narrow need.
His ego has let him expand it to the general audience and that's where it comes off the rails ...
Actually it comes off the rails due to the statistical equivalence of all his results.
I do agree that he probably had good intentions but it's unfortunate that he picked this method of testing, and that after all the work he did the individual results are meaningless and indistinguishable from each other. It cannot have worked for his clients and it fits no need whatsoever no matter how narrow. He should have published the same number for each oil, at least that would have been an honest representation of the results.
The overwhelming desire to salvage even a scrap or relevancy from that website is really quite remarkable.
RAT's test was to develop a sense of oil and additives (like Oil Extreme) that he could recommend to some race teams that were class bound to use flat tappet cams and they were/are running on the ragged edge of reliability (welcome to class racing). I have had many back and forth conversations with him at Chevelles.com regarding oils I wish he would test (JD 50+ & Chevron Delo400 SD), and got mostly nowhere ...
He is stuck in his mold and mindset and will not tolerate any outside comment. He's flame sensitive. Do I disbelieve his testing - no. It seems to have worked for his clients. Do I think it is absolute - no. It fits his narrow need.
His ego has let him expand it to the general audience and that's where it comes off the rails ...
Actually it comes off the rails due to the statistical equivalence of all his results.
I do agree that he probably had good intentions but it's unfortunate that he picked this method of testing, and that after all the work he did the individual results are meaningless and indistinguishable from each other. It cannot have worked for his clients and it fits no need whatsoever no matter how narrow. He should have published the same number for each oil, at least that would have been an honest representation of the results.
The overwhelming desire to salvage even a scrap or relevancy from that website is really quite remarkable.
It did work for his clients. It's clearly stated in the Blog. He's recommending highly rated (his rating) oil and aftermarket additives for cam survival. He has many examples of engines finishing races intact using his recommendations. That's what he does.
His numbers mean something to him, and as a back-up to why he recommends a certain approach to race engine failures.
Do they mean something on the street - not a great deal. But I'd happily use any of his top 1/3 the list rated oil in a vehicle where they fit the requirements.
And, as drag racers reach for ever lighter oil to wring that last 8 HP out of these things, his shift in viscosity means something there too ...
Are his numbers meaningful to us as an absolute, or even a relativistic exercise, - I don't think so ...
Is his overall approach useful for street engines - not really ... He does on occasion recommend chlorinated additives, which have no business in long change interval lubrication schemes (street).
But, it is interesting how oils perform on his tests
And it's an approach that opposes the oil companies who don't provide any sort of rankable performance data ... We do know that there are good, mediocre, and bad oils. Even PQIA knows and supports that (good/bad).
What's interesting is to take his "data" and compare products at PQIA. Some patterns seem to emerge.
His numbers mean something to him, and as a back-up to why he recommends a certain approach to race engine failures.
Do they mean something on the street - not a great deal. But I'd happily use any of his top 1/3 the list rated oil in a vehicle where they fit the requirements.
And, as drag racers reach for ever lighter oil to wring that last 8 HP out of these things, his shift in viscosity means something there too ...
Are his numbers meaningful to us as an absolute, or even a relativistic exercise, - I don't think so ...
Is his overall approach useful for street engines - not really ... He does on occasion recommend chlorinated additives, which have no business in long change interval lubrication schemes (street).
But, it is interesting how oils perform on his tests
And it's an approach that opposes the oil companies who don't provide any sort of rankable performance data ... We do know that there are good, mediocre, and bad oils. Even PQIA knows and supports that (good/bad).
What's interesting is to take his "data" and compare products at PQIA. Some patterns seem to emerge.
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If it worked for his clients then that was purely by coincidence, or it shows that any of the oils would have worked (per that test). The numbers may mean something to him but they don't mean anything anywhere else because when properly analyzed they are all the same result.
Any pattern you see IRT the PQIA data is coincidence as well since none of his results is different than any of the others. All the oils performed the same.
Any pattern you see IRT the PQIA data is coincidence as well since none of his results is different than any of the others. All the oils performed the same.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
And genuine proof of performance testing already exists that can delay OEM approvals by a significant length of time.
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