More road rage idiots

[aquariuscsm]

My take is that we don't know the car driver's intentions. What if a wasp flew in and stung him,causing him to jerk the wheel? I still say from watching the video it looks like the kick to the car door startled him. It looks to sloppy and uncoordinated to be intentional.

Bottom line,the motorcycle sped away from the scene of a potentially deadly accident that he caused,making him a criminal and a coward. Ran like a scared rabbit. Like I said earlier,the guilty don't flee from crime scenes.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
What if a wasp flew in and stung him,causing him to jerk the wheel? I still say from watching the video it looks like the kick to the car door startled him. It looks to sloppy and uncoordinated to be intentional.


A deer hit my dad's Camry in the front fender going 70 mph on the Ohio Turnpike. He kept it right in the lanes which is a good thing since a semi was off to the right. Afterwards when I picked up my parents dad was very shaken up by it. Even the Statie told the tow truck driver not to rush them. Plus he was always one to scare very easily.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I could make a case that steering into the bike was appropriate as a self defense tactic. Is the car driver supposed to wait until the biker pulls a gun and shoots them?


Your case would lose. The analogy would be I'm going to aggressively engage you, and run you over with my car because you kicked it while I drove too close past you in parking lot and, you looked like someone that could be carrying a weapon. So yeah, the driver IS supposed to wait until he gets a gun pulled on him. I hope you think this out better if you're ever actually get caught up in a situation like this.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Any motorcyclist that lane splits deserves to kill themselves,period. Nothing wrong with a little gene pool cleansing. LANES ARE THERE FOR A REASON. I ride a motorcycle and there's no way in [censored] I'd ever lane split.



Lane-splitting or lane-sharing, is legal in California.


Legal or not, it's dangerous...


Not according to studies that were conducted, prior to making it legal.


Studies or no studies, lane splitting is dangerous and I wouldn't do it even where it's legal...

 

[AZjeff]

Two idiots got together, one got away and one didn't, and the unfortunate 70 year old fella lost his Escalade and got injured. The whole thing got good air time on the news last evening.

Wondering if the rider drove up between the car and the barrier or the driver drove up along side of the motorcycle. Either has to be an illegal maneuver and could show dangerous intent. Unfortunately we'll likely never know how it turns out.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
My take is that we don't know the car driver's intentions. What if a wasp flew in and stung him,causing him to jerk the wheel?


You mean like that lame excuse that old coot gave that almost killed a guy and his girlfriend when they were trying to pass him. Yeah, that guy is currently sitting in jail if you recall the threads posted here about it all.

The intention of the guy in the car was at a very minimum to try and intimidate the biker by using his car as a deadly weapon. He went into full retaliation mode when his car got kicked. Not the best excuse to try and murder somebody. That clown is fortunate that he didn't kill the biker, because if he did the video would send him to jail for a very long time.

 

[aquariuscsm]

This could've been what happened to the car's driver haha

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
My take is that we don't know the car driver's intentions. What if a wasp flew in and stung him,causing him to jerk the wheel? I still say from watching the video it looks like the kick to the car door startled him. It looks to sloppy and uncoordinated to be intentional.

Bottom line,the motorcycle sped away from the scene of a potentially deadly accident that he caused,making him a criminal and a coward. Ran like a scared rabbit. Like I said earlier,the guilty don't flee from crime scenes.


Or, they don't flee when their weapon has been disabled by the crash they caused..

Getting away from a lunatic that has tried to kill you, is very prudent when you are completely exposed on a bike. Especially on a Road Glide (which it appeared to be) that is not particularly fast or maneuverable.



I've been riding on the roads since the early 80's. I have experienced on a handful of occasions where someone in a car who I don't know, has chosen to mess with me while I'm riding. Why did they target me? To this day I have no idea. In each case I was riding along minding my own business, not breaking any laws, not impeding anyone, or in any way hampering their progress.

I'm convinced that they were simply insane, didn't like Motorcycles, and decided to mess with the defenseless rider. Fortunately, most of my bikes have been high-powered models, so in each case I could easily take advantage of their power and maneuverability, and get away from the crackpots.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
My take is that we don't know the car driver's intentions. What if a wasp flew in and stung him,causing him to jerk the wheel? I still say from watching the video it looks like the kick to the car door startled him. It looks to sloppy and uncoordinated to be intentional.

Bottom line,the motorcycle sped away from the scene of a potentially deadly accident that he caused,making him a criminal and a coward. Ran like a scared rabbit. Like I said earlier,the guilty don't flee from crime scenes.


Or, they don't flee when their weapon has been disabled by the crash they caused..

Getting away from a lunatic that has tried to kill you, is very prudent when you are completely exposed on a bike. Especially on a Road Glide (which it appeared to be) that is not particularly fast or maneuverable.



I've been riding on the roads since the early 80's. I have experienced on a handful of occasions where someone in a car who I don't know, has chosen to mess with me while I'm riding. Why did they target me? To this day I have no idea. In each case I was riding along minding my own business, not breaking any laws, not impeding anyone, or in any way hampering their progress.

I'm convinced that they were simply insane, didn't like Motorcycles, and decided to mess with the defenseless rider. Fortunately, most of my bikes have been high-powered models, so in each case I could easily take advantage of their power and maneuverability, and get away from the crackpots.


Except that the criminal on the motorcycle was not trying to flee (until he realized he caused a horrific wreck,maybe killing a bunch of people). He was instigating a confrontation,and then showed how much of a true coward he is by running away from the accident he caused,hoping to not get caught.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Except that the criminal on the motorcycle was not trying to flee (until he realized he caused a horrific wreck,maybe killing a bunch of people). He was instigating a confrontation,and then showed how much of a true coward he is by running away from the accident he caused,hoping to not get caught.


The guy in the car is the actual criminal, and the root cause of the accident. Trying to kill someone with your car is an automatic felony - kicking someone's car isn't.

 

[jeepman3071]

Slightly off topic, but I don't understand all the bikers on youtube who willingly break off people's side mirrors and ride away. If someone cuts you off, whether accidentally or purposefully, that does not give you the right to vandalize their vehicle. Many of these bikers on youtube seem to feel they are in the right by destroying other people's property. I'm surprised they haven't been arrested. It would be similar to someone cutting me off, and at the next light I got out and broke their window with a bat.

If someone intentionally cuts you off on a bike, a helmet cam would be helpful to bring the info to the police. Vandalizing their car will only escalate the situation, and being on a bike, it might end worse than you expect.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Slightly off topic, but I don't understand all the bikers on youtube who willingly break off people's side mirrors and ride away. If someone cuts you off, whether accidentally or purposefully, that does not give you the right to vandalize their vehicle. Many of these bikers on youtube seem to feel they are in the right by destroying other people's property. I'm surprised they haven't been arrested. It would be similar to someone cutting me off, and at the next light I got out and broke their window with a bat.

If someone intentionally cuts you off on a bike, a helmet cam would be helpful to bring the info to the police. Vandalizing their car will only escalate the situation, and being on a bike, it might end worse than you expect.

I don't think the police will charge someone based on helmet cam footage unless some gets injured or killed?
If its clear that the driver intended to put the bike rider at risk of getting hit or crashing, I'm good with the rider vandalizing the car, as the driver deserves it. If its an unintentional near miss from a senior or a Mom trying to deal with her kids, then vandalizing their car isn't justified.
The guy on the motor bike in this case, wasn't thinking things through and was lucky not to end up dead, as he found someone crazier than him. If you ever feel the need to snap off someone mirror, make sure you have a good plan to do it unscathed!

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan


I don't think the police will charge someone based on helmet cam footage unless some gets injured or killed?
If its clear that the driver intended to put the bike rider at risk of getting hit or crashing, I'm good with the rider vandalizing the car, as the driver deserves it. If its an unintentional near miss from a senior or a Mom trying to deal with her kids, then vandalizing their car isn't justified.
The guy on the motor bike in this case, wasn't thinking things through and was lucky not to end up dead, as he found someone crazier than him. If you ever feel the need to snap off someone mirror, make sure you have a good plan to do it unscathed!


Fascinating display of self-righteous justification for criminal behavior!

How would our hypothetical vandal (he's no longer a bike rider, just a criminal now) determine intent? You're OK with breaking off mirrors, based on his interpretation of events? Judge, Jury, and Executioner?

Wow...but a biker has no advantage other than the ability to leave...a car is a 4000# weapon, wrapped in steel, while your motorcycle is a 600# weapon wrapped in your fragile pink body...Like a Chihuahua deciding to bite a Rottweiler, a motorcyclist has everything to lose in a physical conflict.

And if the car driver decides that the person engaging in the unprovoked mirror breakage (vandalism, and on my car, several hundred $$ worth) "deserves" to be side-swiped? You're picking a fight, making things physical, when you can only lose...

If you think a driver, the Rottweiler in this case, wrapped in steel, has it in for you, then - like the Chihuahua - biting the bigger dog isn't your best bet. He might bite back, and you might not like how that works out for you.

The wisest choice is to simply leave. Your advantage is the performance of the motorcycle. No car can keep up. Conflict over, and you're safe.

You ever feel the "need to snap off someone's mirror" - let us hope that person doesn't feel the need to respond in kind: you hit my vehicle, I hit yours.

Only difference is: you broke off the mirror. He crushed you.

But in the meantime, if I don't like how you park, and feel the need to "correct" you, you'll be OK coming back to a dangling mirror, or a keyed finish? Vandalism, property damage, is OK as long as the other guy "deserved it"...right?

 

[Win]

Whatever happened between these two prior to the video snippet we have, whoever was right or wrong, is just irrelevant. It's too remote in time. This is a new event.

Legally, the motorcyclist was the provocateur here. What he did would be a low grade crime here, probably in any state. In my state, if you kick an unoccupied car, it's going to be some degree of criminal mischief. But if the car is occupied, it's probably a battery, at least an assault.

The car driver reacted badly, but, generally, you are not required to have a perfect response to an event that somebody else created. Only a reasonable one under the circumstances.

I would want to know more about the car driver. An old blue hair might have that kind of bad reaction, swerving into the disturbance, and not have any criminal intent at all. Or the car driver might be a hothead with a history, like that loon in TX, and criminal intent is more easily inferred. If that is so, the car driver also committed at least a battery because he hit easy rider, and maybe up to attempted murder.

The more interesting question would be the potential civil liabilities with forseeability and all that kind of stuff.

BTW, a Honda ran a stop sign in front of me today - I was able to stop about a yard short of hitting him. Not sure how he managed not to see me in my full size orange "cage". We both behaved like civilized people. He continued on his way, and so did I.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
.... I could make a case that steering into the bike was appropriate as a self defense tactic.


A car against a motorcycle is probably going to be looked at as a lethal use of force. Defending a lethal use of force is probably not where you want to be, but that may be the car driver's lot here, and you might as well throw that at the wall and see if any part of it sticks.

 

[AZjeff]

The biker should have gone his way immediately after whatever started the incident. Some here apparently think a biker should be able to be as aggressive and destructive as he wants and because he's on a bike the victim of his aggression should not react. The motorcycle is faster and more maneuverable than that car and would have no trouble staying away from it no matter the driver's intent... if the biker wanted to. This can be what-if'd and maybe'd to death with no end. Both guilty of criminal actions, or should the biker get away with his part?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: AZjeff
The biker should have gone his way immediately after whatever started the incident.

Same can be said about the car driver, even if the biker went off on him for making an honest driving mistake that [censored] off the biker. Most people will give some kind of jester to say "Hey, I'm sorry - I messed up" and that usually defuses the situation. But I'm betting the car driver is a hot head too and it just escalated back and forth. And it could be the car driver was being totally aggressive which caused the biker to react. Doesn't really matter, because in the end the car driver went way too far by trying to use his car as a deadly weapon, and really nothing that happened in this situation is going to justify that action.

If you go watch all the news videos on YouTube of this indecent, many of them cut out the first few seconds of the video which shows the car crossing the lane lines into the commuter lane and coming over in to the biker. If eye witnesses said this all started much earlier, then the car driver is playing road rage games with the biker at this point. There's even a YouTube video where someone zoomed way in and you can see the car driver looking down and left like he's watching the biker in his side mirror as the biker comes up from behind.

As this unfolds it will be interesting to see how the story changes, and to see what each is charged with if they also catch up to the biker. I'm betting the car driver gets charged heavier than the biker.

Here's that idiot old man that almost killed a guy and his girlfriend a while back. This guy is a menace to society, and is currently serving jail time for his moronic actions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfWI4AATpjI

 

[aquariuscsm]

The cowardly biker fled the scene of an accident he caused. Looks like he could be charged with felony hit and run.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/consequences-hit-run-accident.html

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/05/leaving-the-scene-of-an-accident-what-can-happen.html

 

[Silk]

2 cars crash and the motorcycle stays upright.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
The cowardly biker fled the scene of an accident he caused. Looks like he could be charged with felony hit and run.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/consequences-hit-run-accident.html

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/05/leaving-the-scene-of-an-accident-what-can-happen.html


There was an accident, and it involved a car and a truck ... which was solely caused by the car making an extreme swerve and losing control. The guy on the bike didn't cause the accident, the guy driving the car did. If he didn't go nuts and swerve he wouldn't have crashed.

If they catch the biker I'll bet he's not charged with "hit and run". He might be charged with incurring property damage to a now totaled car ...