Semisynthetic was determined to be good enough to protect the engine for an oci. They actually didn't recommend synthetic or conventional or semisynthetic. The stated a spec that the oil has to meet to be used in the engine.
Ford recommends semi synthetic. Why not full???
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When my current stock runs out I'm going keep it simple, Castrol GTX in everything I've got. Heck the way I change oil I don't need semi or full synthetic oil.
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Semisynthetic was determined to be good enough to protect the engine for an oci. They actually didn't recommend synthetic or conventional or semisynthetic. The stated a spec that the oil has to meet to be used in the engine.
Correct, ford sets the spec. Many "conventional" oils meet it. It's no different than Dexos which most quality oils meet anyway. The fact is there are not really any fully conventional 5w20/5w30 oils on the market. They all are likely part synthetic.
The Phillips 66 line of oils are just as good as anything else on the market. As long as the oil meets the ford spec and is serviced at reasonable intervals you're really splitting hairs. In reality is MC any better than VWB or PYB? Maybe? Maybe not.. is M1 really any better than MC or pennzoil gold? Maybe? Maybe not.. the gap in quality between GF5 5w30 "conventional" and "synthetic" is way smaller than many of us think, especially considering they all meet the same ford spec.
Semisynthetic was determined to be good enough to protect the engine for an oci. They actually didn't recommend synthetic or conventional or semisynthetic. The stated a spec that the oil has to meet to be used in the engine.
Correct, ford sets the spec. Many "conventional" oils meet it. It's no different than Dexos which most quality oils meet anyway. The fact is there are not really any fully conventional 5w20/5w30 oils on the market. They all are likely part synthetic.
The Phillips 66 line of oils are just as good as anything else on the market. As long as the oil meets the ford spec and is serviced at reasonable intervals you're really splitting hairs. In reality is MC any better than VWB or PYB? Maybe? Maybe not.. is M1 really any better than MC or pennzoil gold? Maybe? Maybe not.. the gap in quality between GF5 5w30 "conventional" and "synthetic" is way smaller than many of us think, especially considering they all meet the same ford spec.
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Well in all due fairness the semi-synthetic should cling better to the metal internals of the engine. Plus years ago it was one of the few oils that met Hondas and Fords double time heat test requirements.
Originally Posted By: advocate
Check the owners manual - Canadian trucks spec a regular dino oil, and Mexican trucks spec a full synthetic...
I'm actually surprised it isn't the other way around
Check the owners manual - Canadian trucks spec a regular dino oil, and Mexican trucks spec a full synthetic...
I'm actually surprised it isn't the other way around
Originally Posted By: GemStater
It's because Synthetic, Semi-Synthetic, Full Synthetic, Partial Synthetic, etc., are all marketing terms. The oil could be marketed as any of the above but Ford knows a certain percentage of their customer base, e.g., old fogies, will be put off having to buy "Fully Synthetic" motor oil.
Not old fogies. Fleet buyers.
It's because Synthetic, Semi-Synthetic, Full Synthetic, Partial Synthetic, etc., are all marketing terms. The oil could be marketed as any of the above but Ford knows a certain percentage of their customer base, e.g., old fogies, will be put off having to buy "Fully Synthetic" motor oil.
Not old fogies. Fleet buyers.
The Zetec in my little Focus is low stress. I have run M1, Castrol Edge, Redline, Royal Purple and Pennzoil Ultra for many many years. It runs fine on 0w20 to 5w40 and everything in between. It is still on the full mark every 5,000 miles when I change it. I don't think there is a bad oil out there as long as it meets the specs for the motor that is calling for it. I have 72 quarts from the AD and Advance clearance a while back.
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: GemStater
It's because Synthetic, Semi-Synthetic, Full Synthetic, Partial Synthetic, etc., are all marketing terms. The oil could be marketed as any of the above but Ford knows a certain percentage of their customer base, e.g., old fogies, will be put off having to buy "Fully Synthetic" motor oil.
Not old fogies. Fleet buyers.
Not really.
We buy our oil by the drum and the cost of an oil change is as nothing in the lifetime cost of any vehicle.
Originally Posted By: GemStater
It's because Synthetic, Semi-Synthetic, Full Synthetic, Partial Synthetic, etc., are all marketing terms. The oil could be marketed as any of the above but Ford knows a certain percentage of their customer base, e.g., old fogies, will be put off having to buy "Fully Synthetic" motor oil.
Not old fogies. Fleet buyers.
Not really.
We buy our oil by the drum and the cost of an oil change is as nothing in the lifetime cost of any vehicle.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Could it be that MotorCraft semi-synthetic is a very good oil?
Okay that is kinda funny and kinda not !
The best motor oil might keep the repair bays empty.
I am starting to think the weak point may be the transmission these days.
I really dont think they want your car to last more than 200k miles.
Could it be that MotorCraft semi-synthetic is a very good oil?
Okay that is kinda funny and kinda not !
The best motor oil might keep the repair bays empty.
I am starting to think the weak point may be the transmission these days.
I really dont think they want your car to last more than 200k miles.
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Could it be that MotorCraft semi-synthetic is a very good oil?
Okay that is kinda funny and kinda not !
The best motor oil might keep the repair bays empty.
I am starting to think the weak point may be the transmission these days.
I really dont think they want your car to last more than 200k miles.
With modern engines, it's really about maintaining them. If you change fluids, change oil and air filters, replace spark plugs when they wear out, it'll keep chugging along until some idiot on a phone wrecks it for you
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Could it be that MotorCraft semi-synthetic is a very good oil?
Okay that is kinda funny and kinda not !
The best motor oil might keep the repair bays empty.
I am starting to think the weak point may be the transmission these days.
I really dont think they want your car to last more than 200k miles.
With modern engines, it's really about maintaining them. If you change fluids, change oil and air filters, replace spark plugs when they wear out, it'll keep chugging along until some idiot on a phone wrecks it for you
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Could it be that MotorCraft semi-synthetic is a very good oil?
Okay that is kinda funny and kinda not !
The best motor oil might keep the repair bays empty.
I am starting to think the weak point may be the transmission these days.
I really dont think they want your car to last more than 200k miles.
With modern engines, it's really about maintaining them. If you change fluids, change oil and air filters, replace spark plugs when they wear out, it'll keep chugging along until some idiot on a phone wrecks it for you
Ya members on bitog are the exception. Majority of people dont know dont care and many want a new car every now and then even if they can barely afford it.
I am like you. Hopefully one of my 3 cars will be with me when i die
A 90 year old rx7 driver !!!!
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Could it be that MotorCraft semi-synthetic is a very good oil?
Okay that is kinda funny and kinda not !
The best motor oil might keep the repair bays empty.
I am starting to think the weak point may be the transmission these days.
I really dont think they want your car to last more than 200k miles.
With modern engines, it's really about maintaining them. If you change fluids, change oil and air filters, replace spark plugs when they wear out, it'll keep chugging along until some idiot on a phone wrecks it for you
Ya members on bitog are the exception. Majority of people dont know dont care and many want a new car every now and then even if they can barely afford it.
I am like you. Hopefully one of my 3 cars will be with me when i die
Originally Posted By: 2oldtommy
Why is it that you don't trust FMC engineers? they spent millions of $ on engineering something and you want to change it! Trust them! they know what they are doing. FWIW
oldtommy
As a long time Ford owner and having worked on several in my lifetime, I can come up with plenty of pointers where they DIDN'T know what they were doing!
As far as oil goes, MC blend is a very good oil, and if it's not good enough for you, there's MC full synthetic at the dealership, at least those are the only places I've seen MC full syn. But, I wouldn't worry about the MC blend in your booster, I'd be more worried about keeping the fuel system clean to prevent carbon buildup in the heads, something Ecoboosts are notorious for.
Why is it that you don't trust FMC engineers? they spent millions of $ on engineering something and you want to change it! Trust them! they know what they are doing. FWIW
oldtommy
As a long time Ford owner and having worked on several in my lifetime, I can come up with plenty of pointers where they DIDN'T know what they were doing!
As far as oil goes, MC blend is a very good oil, and if it's not good enough for you, there's MC full synthetic at the dealership, at least those are the only places I've seen MC full syn. But, I wouldn't worry about the MC blend in your booster, I'd be more worried about keeping the fuel system clean to prevent carbon buildup in the heads, something Ecoboosts are notorious for.
I run Motorcraft semi-synthetic in my 14 Mustang GT and I don't worry about it.
Conventional, Semi-Syn, and Full Syn are marketing terms with no legal definition.
Ford recommends a specific spec based on the oil weight. Most name brand "conventional" oils meet this spec.
My F350 calls for 5w30. My last UOA on VWB showed rates far better than universal averages despite higher milage and extremely sever service.
Ford recommends a specific spec based on the oil weight. Most name brand "conventional" oils meet this spec.
My F350 calls for 5w30. My last UOA on VWB showed rates far better than universal averages despite higher milage and extremely sever service.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:
Ford really screwed up on my old E350, since it's still running well after twenty three years.
Lol; Where are all the other millions they built? j/k
They were run out to 300K and then retired.
Remember, the E350 is a commercial vehicle, not mom's minivan.
It was made to be used.
[censored]. Pure and utter [censored]!
If I can get 100,000 (and 10-12,000 hours) out of my 2009 E450s before they are turned out to the surplus yard, it will be a miracle. Actually one will not make that because it is stuck at 89K, broken, no longer authorized for repair. The last "year" of operation it consumed $26K of my maintenance budget... and it is still broken.
Ford? Is it a 6.0 PSD (aka a 6.0 POS). Yeah, you are screwed. Thank you Navistar, may I have another!
I have a lot of Fords, but "longevity" is not a normal term around them. "Willingness to repair" is normally the going term. Generally speaking, they are better than FCA but not as good as GM with the exception of the LE vehicles. The LE vehicles 2 Explorer LE vehicles, 2 PIs. Escape, Explorer, Taurus, E350, 2 E450s, 2 Transit 350s, Transit Connect, and I think some others. Our transit connect is so bad, we just went with a Nissan NV200.
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:
Ford really screwed up on my old E350, since it's still running well after twenty three years.
Lol; Where are all the other millions they built? j/k
They were run out to 300K and then retired.
Remember, the E350 is a commercial vehicle, not mom's minivan.
It was made to be used.
[censored]. Pure and utter [censored]!
If I can get 100,000 (and 10-12,000 hours) out of my 2009 E450s before they are turned out to the surplus yard, it will be a miracle. Actually one will not make that because it is stuck at 89K, broken, no longer authorized for repair. The last "year" of operation it consumed $26K of my maintenance budget... and it is still broken.
Ford? Is it a 6.0 PSD (aka a 6.0 POS). Yeah, you are screwed. Thank you Navistar, may I have another!
I have a lot of Fords, but "longevity" is not a normal term around them. "Willingness to repair" is normally the going term. Generally speaking, they are better than FCA but not as good as GM with the exception of the LE vehicles. The LE vehicles 2 Explorer LE vehicles, 2 PIs. Escape, Explorer, Taurus, E350, 2 E450s, 2 Transit 350s, Transit Connect, and I think some others. Our transit connect is so bad, we just went with a Nissan NV200.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Not old fogies. Fleet buyers.
Not really.
We buy our oil by the drum and the cost of an oil change is as nothing in the lifetime cost of any vehicle.
We spend $5,000+ in oil a year. Getting a few extra qts or a few cents off per qt can be a big deal... and I am a "small" fleet respectively.
So, actually yes. It can be more of an issue if the fleet guy does not have complete control of their purchasing. It also depends on how big your fleet might be. If running 10-15 vehicle, it is no big deal. 70 vehicles (like me) and you start feeling it. If you are doing a state fleet or a major commercial fleet with thousands of vehicles... it will be a major item. If we are on 5,000 conventional intervals vs 7,500 synblend with a replacement mileage date of 150,000 for 70 vehicles, that is 30 oil changes for conventional vs 20 for syn blend. So Synblend must cheaper to justify because in my experience, there is no advantages of having Syn or Synblend in a fleet longevity. The only advantage is less "work" and I rather get a vehicle in the bay every 5,000 than 7,500 for the mechs to take a look at things. Still, assuming 6qts of oil, I am looking at a fleet life oil cost of 180qts with conventional or 120 with a synblend. So conventional at $2/qt against synblend at $3/qt is a wash in terms of pricing. Both are about $360 of oil alone. But here is where is gets fun. If I can do 7,500 intervals on conventional within the manufacturer's specs with most "regular" vehicles (as they are mostly highway miles). Thus conventional gets a win. Then again, factor this $360 over 70 vehicles. That is $25,000 in oil over about 5-6 years. The bigger vehicles are all local so they go on a severe schedule. So if I can find a Conventional that meets Ford's specs (and is not a synblend and there are a few) then you know where my pennies are going.
It can but depends on the fleet and what contracts/purchasing agreements some of us must deal with. I am more concerned with my oil filter contract than my oil, but oil has been an issue.
Fun story: once, I made a purchase for 55g drum, it got "amended" by our purchasing office because "they" said it was not on contract (because they did not know the actual item). What did they get? 220 individual quarts of white bottle Valvoline for $6.99 a quart (from Napa). What was I buying a drum of Shell product or Pennzoil Syn for $2.00/qt. I made them eat that cost or send it back.
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Not old fogies. Fleet buyers.
Not really.
We buy our oil by the drum and the cost of an oil change is as nothing in the lifetime cost of any vehicle.
We spend $5,000+ in oil a year. Getting a few extra qts or a few cents off per qt can be a big deal... and I am a "small" fleet respectively.
So, actually yes. It can be more of an issue if the fleet guy does not have complete control of their purchasing. It also depends on how big your fleet might be. If running 10-15 vehicle, it is no big deal. 70 vehicles (like me) and you start feeling it. If you are doing a state fleet or a major commercial fleet with thousands of vehicles... it will be a major item. If we are on 5,000 conventional intervals vs 7,500 synblend with a replacement mileage date of 150,000 for 70 vehicles, that is 30 oil changes for conventional vs 20 for syn blend. So Synblend must cheaper to justify because in my experience, there is no advantages of having Syn or Synblend in a fleet longevity. The only advantage is less "work" and I rather get a vehicle in the bay every 5,000 than 7,500 for the mechs to take a look at things. Still, assuming 6qts of oil, I am looking at a fleet life oil cost of 180qts with conventional or 120 with a synblend. So conventional at $2/qt against synblend at $3/qt is a wash in terms of pricing. Both are about $360 of oil alone. But here is where is gets fun. If I can do 7,500 intervals on conventional within the manufacturer's specs with most "regular" vehicles (as they are mostly highway miles). Thus conventional gets a win. Then again, factor this $360 over 70 vehicles. That is $25,000 in oil over about 5-6 years. The bigger vehicles are all local so they go on a severe schedule. So if I can find a Conventional that meets Ford's specs (and is not a synblend and there are a few) then you know where my pennies are going.
It can but depends on the fleet and what contracts/purchasing agreements some of us must deal with. I am more concerned with my oil filter contract than my oil, but oil has been an issue.
Fun story: once, I made a purchase for 55g drum, it got "amended" by our purchasing office because "they" said it was not on contract (because they did not know the actual item). What did they get? 220 individual quarts of white bottle Valvoline for $6.99 a quart (from Napa). What was I buying a drum of Shell product or Pennzoil Syn for $2.00/qt. I made them eat that cost or send it back.
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Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Causes one to wonder, if many commercial HD turbo charged engines that are under far more work related hardship than some little ecoboost engine does just fine for 35,000 - 50,000 mile OCI's on a conventional or a blend and lasts to over 1 million miles, why is it incumbent on Ford to recommend a full syn? I am not convinced that Ford's ecoboost is light years ahead of everyone else in technology. From what I have seen of all the recent turbocharged engines that have been coming out, they would be wise to give the folks over at some of the OEM HD engine makers a call and learn a few things about how this all works. Fuel dilution and other issues that keep cropping up with these little turbocharged engines was worked out a long, long time ago on the HD side of things.
Not an ILSAC conventional or blend though... Why do you insist to compare Heavy Duty Engines + Oil to Passenger Car Motors + oil? Other than driving around on the same roads and using a similar fuel they couldn't be more far apart. Guess which is made for a million miles, and which isn't... Bosch and other Fuel Injection Equipment manufacturers claim their passenger car pumps and injectors are good for 120k miles on ASTM diesel (HFRR wear scar diameter of 520µm) and 200k miles on euro diesel (460µm wear scar diameter). They would like the WSD to lower to 400 µm, but that isn't going to happen.
If the injection equipment is considered worn out any time past 120k, and the exhaust treatment equipment also has a finite life, why would you develop an engine with unlimited life?
Fuel dilution can easily be solved for diesel engines, but very few makers of passenger cars go to the effort and expense. With gas engines, the issue is not that easy to resolve, particularly for Direct Injection.
Causes one to wonder, if many commercial HD turbo charged engines that are under far more work related hardship than some little ecoboost engine does just fine for 35,000 - 50,000 mile OCI's on a conventional or a blend and lasts to over 1 million miles, why is it incumbent on Ford to recommend a full syn? I am not convinced that Ford's ecoboost is light years ahead of everyone else in technology. From what I have seen of all the recent turbocharged engines that have been coming out, they would be wise to give the folks over at some of the OEM HD engine makers a call and learn a few things about how this all works. Fuel dilution and other issues that keep cropping up with these little turbocharged engines was worked out a long, long time ago on the HD side of things.
Not an ILSAC conventional or blend though... Why do you insist to compare Heavy Duty Engines + Oil to Passenger Car Motors + oil? Other than driving around on the same roads and using a similar fuel they couldn't be more far apart. Guess which is made for a million miles, and which isn't... Bosch and other Fuel Injection Equipment manufacturers claim their passenger car pumps and injectors are good for 120k miles on ASTM diesel (HFRR wear scar diameter of 520µm) and 200k miles on euro diesel (460µm wear scar diameter). They would like the WSD to lower to 400 µm, but that isn't going to happen.
If the injection equipment is considered worn out any time past 120k, and the exhaust treatment equipment also has a finite life, why would you develop an engine with unlimited life?
Fuel dilution can easily be solved for diesel engines, but very few makers of passenger cars go to the effort and expense. With gas engines, the issue is not that easy to resolve, particularly for Direct Injection.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Causes one to wonder, if many commercial HD turbo charged engines that are under far more work related hardship than some little ecoboost engine does just fine for 35,000 - 50,000 mile OCI's on a conventional or a blend and lasts to over 1 million miles, why is it incumbent on Ford to recommend a full syn? I am not convinced that Ford's ecoboost is light years ahead of everyone else in technology. From what I have seen of all the recent turbocharged engines that have been coming out, they would be wise to give the folks over at some of the OEM HD engine makers a call and learn a few things about how this all works. Fuel dilution and other issues that keep cropping up with these little turbocharged engines was worked out a long, long time ago on the HD side of things.
Conceived notions usually get into the way of facts. Marketing works well.
Causes one to wonder, if many commercial HD turbo charged engines that are under far more work related hardship than some little ecoboost engine does just fine for 35,000 - 50,000 mile OCI's on a conventional or a blend and lasts to over 1 million miles, why is it incumbent on Ford to recommend a full syn? I am not convinced that Ford's ecoboost is light years ahead of everyone else in technology. From what I have seen of all the recent turbocharged engines that have been coming out, they would be wise to give the folks over at some of the OEM HD engine makers a call and learn a few things about how this all works. Fuel dilution and other issues that keep cropping up with these little turbocharged engines was worked out a long, long time ago on the HD side of things.
Conceived notions usually get into the way of facts. Marketing works well.
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