Any carburetor experts here?

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So I have an interesting question and seek your help.

I can start my 92 NH750 with a choke and after it's warmed up, I can let the choke go and it continues to run. It runs good and shifting and all is good too.

I was testing something after a 3 mile ride and bike was all warmed up(65-70 outside), I turned the choke to full on(in neutral) and bike immediately died.

Is this normal operation or no? Thanks for the help.
 
Yes this is normal and you should not choke an engine that does not need it. The engine is taking in excess fuel which will dilute the oil and remove the oil protection from the cylinder walls.
 
Choke on hot engine = Die.

Nothing out of the ordinary here.

I've accidentally left the choke on while warming my power washer, and you can hear it run choppier as it warms up. When it finally does warm up? Dead.
 
From my recollection of carbs, the choke essentially throttles down on the air inlet butterfly valves when the engine is too cold. So once warm, you'd be severely cutting back on the required air flow, rapidly increasing the fuel/air ratio....to the point where the engine could sputter and possibly stall.
 
My hazy recollection:
When engine is cold, choke closes butterfly valve allowing less air in. This makes up for the less volatile, cold gasoline entering into the carburetor thus keeping the air/fuel ratio more likely to ignite
When engine is hot and the gasoline is at optimal temperature for vaporization closing the choke will cause a very rich mixture which will not ignite and the engine dies.
 
That is normal.

Motorcycle "chokes" are sometimes not air restrictors, but simply liquid valves that dump additional raw gas into the air stream. Motorcycle carbs are strange.
 
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Originally Posted By: 69GTX
From my recollection of carbs, the choke essentially throttles down on the air inlet butterfly valves when the engine is too cold. So once warm, you'd be severely cutting back on the required air flow, rapidly increasing the fuel/air ratio....to the point where the engine could sputter and possibly stall.


a "choke" on a motorcycle CV carb (as in this case) is an enricher; it does not in way restrict airflow.

Back to the question, opening up the enricher circuit caused the engine to die because the resulting fuel-air mix was simply way too rich to sup[port combustion...
 
A common (and even factory recommended, I believe) way to test jetting on a bike carb. is to put it under normal cruising load and apply the choke - if it stays the same or slows down it's good or darn close, but if it speeds up it needs richer jetting.

Yes, it's very normal on any engine for choke to kill or nearly kill it when it's warm. You did it no harm but it could cause extra wear if repeated frequently.

FYI, the choke on my '72 Honda CL175 is a little gate in each carb. that drops into the carb. throat when applied - so it does restrict air, but not 100% like automotive and small equipment engines do.
 
Choke literally means CHOKE the engine of oxygen. Its just to warm up the engine and get more fuel than air to the piston. To choke the engine after its already warm serves no purpose and it will immediately die like yours is doing. If everything is operating as normal, you can leave the carburetor alone and ride to your hearts content.
 
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Originally Posted By: Alex_V


FYI, the choke on my '72 Honda CL175 is a little gate in each carb. that drops into the carb. throat when applied - so it does restrict air, but not 100% like automotive and small equipment engines do.


That'd mean they wouldn't work, so I don't think it can be true.
 
Originally Posted By: yaris0128
Choke literally means CHOKE the engine of oxygen. Its just to warm up the engine and get more fuel than air to the piston.


That's not "quite" correct (though it's close enough for England). Liquid fuel does not burn at the ignition point, vapor does. The carbs role is to vaporise the fuel (which is does pretty effectively under most conditions). In a cold engine, fuel tends to condense on the cold metal bits (intake tract, valve and anything else it comes in contact with). The chokes role is to make sure the mixture is rich enough that there is enough vapor there to burn. Raw fuel tends to wind up either as CO as it continues to burn with insufficient oxygen after TDC, or out the exhaust as raw fuel vapor. The chokes is there to ensure there is enough vapor to properly combust, but it ensures that occurs by putting more fuel than a warm engine would need down the intake.

Once the donk is warm enough, you can pretty much pour raw fuel down the intake in the right proportions and enough of it will vaporise on the hot metal to run right. Emissions is another story altogether of course, which is why we ended up with heated manifolds and all sorts of other complex gumph required to make carbs "good enough" at the time, but the general gist is the same.

The engine warms itself up whether the mixture is rich or not. In fact a rich engine generates less combustion heat and so in theory warms up slower (although the actual difference would be down in the noise). It just won't warm up if the vapor mix is so lean it won't run, thus the need for a choke.
 
Originally Posted By: Ducked
That'd mean they wouldn't work, so I don't think it can be true.


Hey, see for yourself. The part next to #7:
honda-cb160-sport-general-export-r-carburetor-keihin-cb160-cl160_bigma000125e14_648b.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Originally Posted By: Ducked
That'd mean they wouldn't work, so I don't think it can be true.


Hey, see for yourself. The part next to #7:
honda-cb160-sport-general-export-r-carburetor-keihin-cb160-cl160_bigma000125e14_648b.gif



I don' need no steeenkeeeng diagram to know that 100% restriction of air, as in "it does restrict air, but not 100% like automotive and small equipment engines do." is not the recipe for internal combustion (or any combustion).

But that probably wasn't really what you meant.
 
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No, it wasn't, but different wording would've been more kind and conveyed your point better.

Of course, a choke can't restrict air 100% or there would be no oxygen in the engine to ignite the fuel with. But every manual automobile and small equipment choke I've seen, if not opened to some degree immediately after the engine starts, will kill the engine almost immediately - the motorcycle choke I was referring to isn't that way, but it still makes enough of a difference that the engine requires it when cold.
 
Some "chokes" just add more fuel, they don't restrict airflow. You'll see them on constant depression carbs such as SUs or Bings.
 
Yup, mine also has a fuel enrichment circuit, even though the little mark on the handlebar would suggest it works like a traditional 'choke'.
 
I know sometimes when I make a quick stop (for gas or something), I instinctively flip the choke lever before starting. My bike won't start when hot with the choke. I panic for a split second, then flip the choke back and all is good again.
 
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