Something like the Microgreen

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
What is totyotas suggested interval or sump life claim? UD


It depends on the vehicle of course, but it is the manufacturer's specified oil change interval. But again we were talking about oil filtering efficiency as published by the filter manufacturer so that effective comparisons could be made between filters.

But on that subject, I for one would never, ever run any oil with any number of filter changes beyond 7500 miles in my old Sienna, considering the gear-driven camshafts and the excessive head temperatures on the 1MZ-FE engine. A microGreen filter would not help with mechanical shearing and heat related degradation of the oil, would it?


Of course it depends on the vehicle, but not one of toyotas schedules Ive ever seen comes close to the Microgreens.

I understand your schedule, and your point to shearing and heat, and agree the mircorgreen couldn't help with that.

My titan also has gear driven cams and is a known shear beast and I tow 7500 with regularity in 105-110 degree heat I wouldnt run that sump for 30K with anything either. I use the MG as any other premium filter.

In my 3mzfe I extend the sump to 20K using them dump though.

UD

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
But on that subject, I for one would never, ever run any oil with any number of filter changes beyond 7500 miles in my old Sienna, considering the gear-driven camshafts and the excessive head temperatures on the 1MZ-FE engine.

Why? My wife does it on her 1MZ-FE running Mobil 1 without issue (w/UOA's confirming it), and no oil is added over the change interval. Now over 200k on the car. Just took a trip the other day, and averaged 29.5MPG (primarily 70MPH interstate, with a little stop-and-go city driving mixed in).

Moral of the story: Oils today are really good, and a great value at $25/5 quarts (matches up nicely with the 1MZ-FE capacity!)

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: kschachn
But on that subject, I for one would never, ever run any oil with any number of filter changes beyond 7500 miles in my old Sienna, considering the gear-driven camshafts and the excessive head temperatures on the 1MZ-FE engine.

Why? My wife does it on her 1MZ-FE running Mobil 1 without issue (w/UOA's confirming it), and no oil is added over the change interval. Now over 200k on the car. Just took a trip the other day, and averaged 29.5MPG (primarily 70MPH interstate, with a little stop-and-go city driving mixed in).

Moral of the story: Oils today are really good, and a great value at $25/5 quarts (matches up nicely with the 1MZ-FE capacity!)


I don't think all 1MZ-FE engines are the same, at least from the few I've seen. Some appear to be harder on the oil than others. Mine used to clog up the PCV valve in one OCI if I didn't use M1 oil, and still looked like this on a steady diet of synthetic oil changed at an approximately 5000 mile OCI. I replaced that valve cover with the improved version with the metal PCV valve and that seems to have helped, at least with the valve clogging.

And yes a 5qt container fits exactly

 

[Ramblejam]

Thank you for sharing those pictures and your experience. Hers is the pre-update version.

Thought about doing that as well, but Toyota released an updated "push-in" PCV valve (red top); appears to be working fine so far.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
What is totyotas suggested interval or sump life claim? UD


It depends on the vehicle of course, but it is the manufacturer's specified oil change interval. But again we were talking about oil filtering efficiency as published by the filter manufacturer so that effective comparisons could be made between filters.

But on that subject, I for one would never, ever run any oil with any number of filter changes beyond 7500 miles in my old Sienna, considering the gear-driven camshafts and the excessive head temperatures on the 1MZ-FE engine. A microGreen filter would not help with mechanical shearing and heat related degradation of the oil, would it?


Of course it depends on the vehicle, but not one of toyotas schedules Ive ever seen comes close to the Microgreens.

I understand your schedule, and your point to shearing and heat, and agree the mircorgreen couldn't help with that.

My titan also has gear driven cams and is a known shear beast and I tow 7500 with regularity in 105-110 degree heat I wouldnt run that sump for 30K with anything either. I use the MG as any other premium filter.

In my 3mzfe I extend the sump to 20K using them dump though.

UD



Meant chain and sprocket(s) - typed gear.
Still a shear beast.

UD

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave

The result MG does back up is that you can use 3 of them in 30K at 10 K intervals and the sump quality will be useable. NO one else makes this claim.


Not sure if you saw this other thread or not. The article doesn't say anything more than "switched to extended performance oil filters", which could mean about anything full synthetic. I saw noting in the article that eluded to a filter resembling a MicroGreen.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4288178

"Hart began researching oil, oil additives, and filters in an attempt to reduce downtime. In 2010, he began making changes. The fleet purchased an oil analysis machine, switched to extended performance oil filters, and began using full synthetic oil. This allowed the fleet to extend filter changes to 10,000 miles and oil changes to 30,000 miles."

It would be interesting to know what oil filters they were actually using.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: UncleDave

The result MG does back up is that you can use 3 of them in 30K at 10 K intervals and the sump quality will be useable. NO one else makes this claim.


Not sure if you saw this other thread or not. The article doesn't say anything more than "switched to extended performance oil filters", which could mean about anything full synthetic. I saw noting in the article that eluded to a filter resembling a MicroGreen.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4288178

"Hart began researching oil, oil additives, and filters in an attempt to reduce downtime. In 2010, he began making changes. The fleet purchased an oil analysis machine, switched to extended performance oil filters, and began using full synthetic oil. This allowed the fleet to extend filter changes to 10,000 miles and oil changes to 30,000 miles."

It would be interesting to know what oil filters they were actually using.



Ill check it out.

Always eager to see every possible routine and test.

UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: UncleDave

The result MG does back up is that you can use 3 of them in 30K at 10 K intervals and the sump quality will be useable. NO one else makes this claim.


Not sure if you saw this other thread or not. The article doesn't say anything more than "switched to extended performance oil filters", which could mean about anything full synthetic. I saw noting in the article that eluded to a filter resembling a MicroGreen.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4288178

"Hart began researching oil, oil additives, and filters in an attempt to reduce downtime. In 2010, he began making changes. The fleet purchased an oil analysis machine, switched to extended performance oil filters, and began using full synthetic oil. This allowed the fleet to extend filter changes to 10,000 miles and oil changes to 30,000 miles."

It would be interesting to know what oil filters they were actually using.




https://www.ocsd.com/Home/ShowDocument?id=10345

Cross references directly to microgreen oil filters in his official report.

enclosed within.

2.14.2 Fleet Services
Fleet Services continues to manage and service the motor pool facility, miscellaneous portable and emergency equipment, and all fleet and motor pool vehicles including sedans, pickups, electric carts, bicycles, and heavy trucks. In FY 2008/09, four heavy-duty diesel vehicles were retro fitted with particulate filters to comply with California Air Resources Board (CARB) regulations. The devices complied with regulations known as Best Available Control Technology (BACT).
In FY 2008/09, Fleet Services began a pilot program using re-refined oil, which is a blend of very high quality recycled base oils that meet all manufacturer requirements. Another pilot program involves the use of a “micro green oil filter.” This filter is designed to reduce the amount of filter and oil changes to reduce operating costs. This filter is being tested on a high-mileage
2.40
vehicle; it is being changed every 10,000 miles and the oil changed every 30,000 miles compared to the typical 5,000-mile intervals. Staff monitors oil levels and samples oil on a 90-day maintenance schedule.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Good find. Would have been interesting to know if they tried any other high efficiency full synthetic oil filters to compare. That's the missing piece everyone needs to see to complete the puzzle.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Good find. Would have been interesting to know if they tried any other high efficiency full synthetic oil filters to compare. That's the missing piece everyone needs to see to complete the puzzle.


Indeed it would be.

If someone gets bored maybe the other city annual reports would have them in it, or another brand.

Given a poster just received a fleet car with one on it and likely on that regimen, it seems that it is indeed run by at least a few fleets under tested conditions


UD

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: slalom44
The closest thing to a MicroGreen filter that I'm aware of is the Trasko filter. It uses a wire mesh filter for its full-flow part of the filter and a small toilet paper type roll for the bypass part. I have used both (the MicroGreen once and the Trasko about 8 times) and I've posted UOAs for both.

In my opinion they're both decent filters. I thought the MicroGreen was pricey. The lower price makes it more palatable


The trasko is pretty cool and from what I can tell works the exact opposite as everything else in that

It bypasses the majority of the time and only scrubs at a very low rate, but very thoroughly - its really a bypass only filter.

UD


Thought of trying to get one in Japan when I was there at Christmas, but was unsure of its operation.

IF I understand it, its got a stainless steel "full flow" section with 10 micron pores. This won't have any depth filtration effect, and has a rather small area, so it seems likely to be very vulnerable to clogging.

I suppose that could perhaps be addressed by taking it apart and cleaning it regularly, but I wasn't sure what would happen when it clogged.

Is there a "full bypass" mode with this filter, for when it clogs?

If not, and if there isn't one external to the filter, in the engine block (don't actually know if my engine has one. Must find out) then it'd kill the engine.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: kschachn

But on that subject, I for one would never, ever run any oil with any number of filter changes beyond 7500 miles in my old Sienna, considering the gear-driven camshafts


Im not certain Id characterize a 1MZ-FE as a "gear driven" valve train.

A timing belt connects the crank to the exhaust camshafts, then the intake cam is driven off exhaust cam.


UD

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Im not certain Id characterize a 1MZ-FE as a "gear driven" valve train.

A timing belt connects the crank to the exhaust camshafts, then the intake cam is driven off exhaust cam.


I didn't say valve train, only the camshafts. But you are correct.

 

[goodtimes]

Oddly against logic the Trasko mesh screen is for bypass they say. The depth media is considered full flow.

http://trasko-usa.com/faq/faq.htm

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Oddly against logic the Trasko mesh screen is for bypass they say. The depth media is considered full flow.

http://trasko-usa.com/faq/faq.htm


Depends what you mean by "bypass". It seems to have two meanings in normal usage.

(a) Bypassing ALL filtration. That's the way its used in a "standard" filtration setup. As I understand it, this bypass can be provided by an internal pressure relief valve in the filter, via a pressure relief valve in the engine block, or, I suppose, both.

(b) Bypassing full-flow filtration. This is the usage when talking about a (usually separate) filter that takes some of the flow through a finer media.

The Trasko doesn't seem to do (a), and it looks likely to be easily clogged, which would make it dangerous if there isn't an external pressure relief valve in the engine block, or it was defective.

Do ALL cars have an external pressure relief valve?

If so, the Trasko is probably OK. If not it seems like an accident waiting to happen, if used where there isn't one.

Or I'm confused. That's always possible.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Do ALL cars have an external pressure relief valve?


Are you asking if all cars have a filter bypass valve in the block? No, not all cars do. In fact, most cars do not, and therefore depend on the bypass valve built into the oil filter.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Do ALL cars have an external pressure relief valve?


Are you asking if all cars have a filter bypass valve in the block? No, not all cars do. In fact, most cars do not, and therefore depend on the bypass valve built into the oil filter.


That was my impression, though my first few cars (All British Leyland) all had them IIRC.

That being the case, it seems to me that the Trasko is a dangerous device, since it doesn't seem to have a full bypass built-in.

 

[FlyingTexan]

The MG website sent me to Amazon and my filter was $11 shipped to the house. It's there waiting for me. Fram ultra at Wally World was $16 before tax. I watched a YouTube where a guy cut one open and it took him forever to do so saying it was a very thick filter. As soon as I get home I'm going to be doing an oil change and throwing it on there.

 

[Ducked]

Right. A new universal quality metric.

Time-to-half-with-a-hacksaw.

Would work for anything: watches, wine, presidents.

Life suddenly became SO MUCH SIMPLER.

 

[kschachn]

So how will you know it is worth the $8 premium over say, an orange can Fram?

Originally Posted By: FlyingTexan
The MG website sent me to Amazon and my filter was $11 shipped to the house. It's there waiting for me. Fram ultra at Wally World was $16 before tax. I watched a YouTube where a guy cut one open and it took him forever to do so saying it was a very thick filter. As soon as I get home I'm going to be doing an oil change and throwing it on there.